ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello Jacques,
That the self-preservation circuitry works is absolutely not in question. Oh boy but does it ever work!
However I still wonder if the AM antenna connections are universal with these Beograms, as when I attempted to fit the antenna that I had successfully used with the Beomaster 2400, it refused to go in the slot.
Also as I am now going to use the S-45 speakers, I have been told that the magnet in the woofer MUST be glued before it slips and permanently ruins the speaker, which has already happened in one case…. but I really could use a bit more direction that that.
What exactly is the procedure for an amateur like me?
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
AM antennas are not used for Beograms. They can be used for some Beomasters but, obviously,limited to those that supports AM reception. Neither Beomaster 2400 nor 4400 supprots AMso will not accept an AM antenna connector.Depending on the production date and type number of your Beomaster, different FM connectorscan be found. Some supports both 75 and 240/300 Ohms, others only the latter. Some havemale 75 Ohms connectors, others female.
The S45 magnet issue has been covered many times already. Do a search in the forum, and thearchived sections in particular since that's where most of the good stuff is.
Martin
The 4400 is an FM-only receiver.
there are two variations of the DIN antenna connector - the plugs are sligtly different and won't fit.
This is an FM connector
Here there is the two versions of the plug - the one with space for an extra leg is for FM and the other is for AM.
Concerning the S-45's: You remove the woofer and glue two-component epoxy on the two sides of the magnet - I have made a quick job in paint to give you the picture. The epoxy should be put in a relatively thick layer around where the magnet is attached to the metal of the top and bottom of the woofer (red marker).
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Hi Martin,
Sorry, sorry, sorry, I meant FM antenna connection. It appears very similar, but I fear the 4400 slot is slightly smaller than the 2400.... or maybe I wasn't pushing hard enough.
Yes, I know the issue has been spoken of many times, I just seem to have difficulty exploring the archives.... but I am an adult, so I'll give it another try.
Hi Soren,
Apparently I was just not pushing hard enough as I have the smaller single connection.
Thank you so very much for the photos which are so very helpful!
Hi Jeff,
if you go & read the article where the pictures came from, you might be more enlightened - don't ever push harder to fit connectors if you're not sure they belong together! From your description, it appears you might be attempting to mate two female IEC connectors...
--mika
Hi Mika,
This FM antannea connection is sort of like an RCA plug, only with a hole in the central post. I am assuming that it is the right connection as I have used it for years with my Beomaster 2400, and it looks exactly like the comnnection on the 4400.
Thanks all for your help with the S-45 speaker issue. I have exchanged the woofer in one and the tweeter in the other from a donor speaker and the pair now perform well.
One interesting note, from the donor speaker, the mid-range black tube was completely melted through in the center and I found all sorts of black debris on the crossover network. I don’t know what happened to this speaker, but decided not to bother saving the network.
So which is the best amplifier? The answer to this question is Peter was right, good amplifiers are difficult to tell apart, the largest differences depending much more on speakers and the source: phonograph, cassette deck, or CD player.
What have I learned?
Well my glowing assessment of the Beomaster 4500 has been reduced. There is no taking away from this excellent receiver when coupled with any of my more “impressive” speakers: Linn Isobaric, McIntosh ML-2, or Bang & Olufsen S120.2. However when mated with Bang & Olufsen S-75 speakers, the remarkable warm sound disappeared, replaced by a more than competent sound, but not the one I talked about at such great length.
I am genuinely impressed with my newest acquisition, the Beomaster 4400, which delivers a very interesting and complex sound when mated with the S120.2 speakers. Better than the Beomaster 4500 when mated with the same speakers? Honestly no, I prefer the sound of the 4500.
That said, I am embarrassed to learn at this stage of the game that after setting up three “new” systems that I fall into the cliché of having American taste ‘vs. European taste, that is enjoying more booming bass. This may be attributed to the fact that European homes in general terms tend to be much smaller than contemporary American homes, but still I feel a bit humbled by this realization.
I also gained a completely new respect for the Beomaster 2400, which previously did a more than presentable job when mated with my power hungry speakers, but failed in any way to “compete” with the more powerful amps in my collection.
However when mated with my rebuilt S45 speakers the sound quality amazed me…. I had NO idea that amp could sound that good.
My first pair of S45 speakers had at least one fried crossover network, which had actually burnt in several places, plus the plastic cone that housed the mid-range had melted with a golf ball sized hole in it. I tried these speakers with the Beomaster 2400 and was completely unimpressed, for obvious reasons.
However my latest pair of S45’s came with a bad woofer in one and a bad tweeter in the other. Taking these two speakers from the donor S45 transformed my “new” pristine S45’s and what a remarkable transformation of the overall sound of the Beomaster 2400.
What it all comes down to is what Bill Rapp has told me repeatedly, you must match the receiver with the speakers to get the best results. While this doesn’t fully explain why the Beomaster 4500 produces a more delightful sound than the Beomaster 4400 does when powering the S120.2 speakers…. this may simply be attributed to my personal taste for bassy music.
Perhaps the best way to put things in perspective is to quote Peter Bang who told his dealers in order to sell his products not to quote numbers but rather to “listen” to his offerings.
This has been an interesting thread to follow for a few reasons with an interesting end.... or does it.
From the agonies of what bm 4400 is worth to how good it sounds. I cringe when the bm4400 comes up as I got a stunning mint refurbished one from Barrie on this site probably 6 months ago and beyond making sure it worked I never set it up. One of these days...... I did take out the 6000 quad for a good airing over the winter (that's when the rain is horizontal not vertical- like to day ) I am fortunate in that I can play music as loud as I like, triple glazing and 12cm of wall insulation work's both ways!
But to the oldest debate, how it sounds to you. Is sound an aquired flavor ? It it an age thing ? For sure the house/room construction has an an added effect. We all know how we like our tea and coffe, is sound like that ? I know how I like my beer cold heavy and less than 5%, Belgian beers are great but too heavy and strong for me. German beers no problem at all but American beer..... Its a personal thing.
With all this “new” understanding on my part, I am still more than confused about several points.
First and foremost is why my Beomaster 2400, which appeared to effortlessly power all my power hungry speakers at the same time, did not impress as did the Beomaster 4500 when asked to accomplish the same thing. The Beomaster 4500 complained often by cutting back the power, but the sound was delicious.
When the McIntosh 2255 returned from the factory the difference in sound quality was appalling. True the big Mac can drive the speakers to far great volume than the 4500, but the sound is clinical, not emotional like the 4500.
I also do not understand why the Beomaster 4500 fell on its face when powering the S-75 speakers. Coupled with the overly demanding S120.2 speakers the Beomaster 4500 was more than on top of its game, but lacking in horsepower to properly drive those speakers.
Of course the sound quality of the Beomaster 4500/S75 is much the same as my BeoCenter 9000/S75, so perhaps it is just that I don’t like the sound of the S75’s as much as I had thought.
It is clear that the original pair of S45’s had problems which explains why I was so unimpressed by them when paired to the Beomaster 2400. The crossover board had scorch marks on it plus several components (not knowing what the hell they are) have burn marks on their ends. This coupled with the mid-range tube having a golf ball-sized hole burn into it says something was very wrong.
None the less this damaged S45 speaker gave my pristine S45’s a totally new life and the sound is quite superb. Apparently the cross0ver network went before the speakers did.
Now the question that begs asking is why my Beomaster 2400, which never in 7 years impressed sounds so good paired with these S45’s? I understand the pairing makes sense vis-à-vis the power of the Beomaster 2400 ‘vs. the power requirement of the S45’s…. is it possible that the S75’s are just vastly overrated?
I decided to have one more “listen” before commenting further and I have to say the sound is amazing! The highs are crisp and oh so clear, the bass is exceptional, with the mid-range performing EXACTLY as it should. How can such little speakers sitting on the carpeted floor in my bedroom sound so darn good? This with the tone levels set to netural.
B&O design speakers to match certain amplifiers - a very good example is the Beovox 1200 - which sound pretty awful usually, but sound great with a Beomaster 1200. I think this is to a certain effect what you are hearing. I ran S75s with a 2400 for many years and was very happy with the result.
Peter
Hello Peter,
I have paired the Beomaster 2400 with the S75’s for 5 years and I wouldn’t say I was unhappy with the result. Had anyone asked, I would have told them the S75 was one of my favorite speakers.
All considered I would have thought that the S75’s would have dwarfed the S45’s….. and in sheer volume I suspect that would be the case. However the S45” represent (for me) an improvement over the S75’s.
Clearly I lack your technical expertise, but I can only call ‘em as I see ‘em and frankly I am more confused than before.
At this point I am completely satisfied with my Beomaster 2400/S45 combination and am giving serious thought to switching the Beomaster 4500 back to the S120.2 speakers.
The Beomaster 4400 has been a learning experience for me, an expensive one, but then education is always costly.
The S45s were always a better speaker than the S75 from an accuracy point of view - less bass but sounding much sweeter. S120s are the other really good model in the Uniphase range - as you know. On the amplifier front, look at the figures for damping factor - it may well answer some of your thoughts on amplifier performance!
Jeff,
I have both the S45.2s and S120s (in their MC 120.2 guise), and use them with a number of amps including the BM 4400 and a BC9500 (the same amplifier as in the BM 4500). The relative neutrality of both speakers is clear, but sometimes I think I sense a greater feeing of control when using the 4400 (and even more so from a BM8000). Whether this is because of their damping factor or the fact they are both much more powerful in real RMS watts than the 4500 and hence under less stress when driving real loudspeaker loads, I'm not sure. Or maybe I'm deluding myself and it's all imagined.
Anyway, I'm sure you will enjoy all three sets of Beovox. Oh and by the way, the S45.2s sound even better on their stands!
Cleve.
Peter, I am on one hand flattered that you believe that I would understand what damping means, while on the other most embarrassed because I don’t, at least not in regard to this subject matter.
Yes of course I comprehend the word damping, in the sense to modify or restrict something by means of filters, but I am not at all sure I see how damping applies here.
That is unless you are saying that I prefer the damping filters in the Beomaster 4500 over my other amplifiers.
Cleve certainly understands what you mean, but I am afraid I don’t quite get it.
It is however a pleasant surprise to hear that you both like the S120.2 speakers, which my fellow stereo appreciating buddies have deemed this purchase as a mistake on my part. Point of fact I was looking for M-series speakers at the time and gave up selecting the S120.2’s as a compromise.
On a lighter note, Martin might recall my purchase of these speakers, but I doubt anyone else will, so this is worth repeating. I purchased the S120.2 on eBay from a local seller and inexpensively.
When the S120.2 speakers arrived I was amazed by the flawless condition, but really disappointed in the sound quality….. so disappointed that I was considering reassigning them in my garage until I noticed the power-protector button extended. I wasn’t entirely sure what this button was but I figured what did I have to loose so I pushed it and the sound quality turned from God-awful to quite remarkable.
I then communicated the above to the seller who wrote back that he just knew there was something not quite right with the speakers, but didn’t know what. In any case the net result was I got a bargain on the speakers.
Have a look at this!
Some numbers!
BM2400 >60
BM4400 >75
BM2200 >25
BM4500 32
What the figures mean is that the higher the figure, the better the control of the bass driver. Once over a certain level, it makes little difference, but at lower levels, it makes a difference. My Beolab 5000 has a damping factor between 10 and 12 - gives it a fairly exciting bass performance - possibly not as accurate as a 4400 though!
Interestingly, the figure for the BM8000 is 65 ....
With each new piece of information I become more befogged than before, if such a thing were possible.
Interesting statistics on the damping of the various Beomasters, but there is a flaw in the slaw; I had my Beomaster 4500 set to +2 for bass and neutral for treble, which produced my much talked about marvelous sound with the S120.2 speakers.
With the Beomaster 4400 I have the bass set at +4 and the treble set again at neutral.
With the numbers you kindly provided, this makes absolutely no sense to me. The Beomaster 4400 has a much greater damping capacity yet requires more than the Beomaster 4500. How can this be?
I'm not sure that the bass settings on the two amplifiers are directly comparable - the levels of boost or cut available at each setting will probably be different between the two amplifiers. Add the variation that is likely to occur as part of the aging process of components and I suspect that any direct comparison between bass settings is not really viable. Apart from that, I think the settings themselves are not a factor in determining the damping available.
Whilst on the subject of the aging process, I remember reading somewhere that the damping factor of amplifiers is likely to reduce over time as components degrade. So, whilst theoretically the 4400's damping factor is greater than the 8000, I'm not sure that will automatically be the case with amplifiers that are both 30 years old.
By the way,Peter, I enjoyed the letter in 'Hi Fi News and Record Review' about the 'Bin Laden' 4400. It is still performing well, although I am going to lend it to my partner's son as both his BC 3500s need some work. The problem will be getting it back!
Cleve
Damping factor describes the amplifiers ability to CONTROL the bass driver. It is not a measure of the absolute quantity of bass that it can provide. It's all to do with the quality!
If the recording artist or technician had intended the record be played with artificially boosted bass then that is how they would have recorded it.
I set ALL amplifiers that pass through my establishment to flat tone controls and loudness off. It is the only way to compare them or comment on their performance.
Clearly Jeff, if you boost the bass with the tone controls, then you are able to taylor the sound to your N. American ear, which for some reason, has always demanded more bass and is the main reason that British and European amplifiers, designed for the more sophisticated tastes on this side of the pond, have never sold well in the US and Canada.
Regards Graham
The higher the damping factor, the better the control of the bass driver - up to a point. If you have a low damping factor, the bass under about 100Hz has a tendency to become much less controlled as the cone is less well damped by the amplifier and will sound exaggerated. Of course, you may like this!!
chartz: To me the best sounds from the 4400 are clearly with tone controls defeated, and believe me this is not subtle! I wish the Beolab had the same feature!
To me the best sounds from the 4400 are clearly with tone controls defeated, and believe me this is not subtle! I wish the Beolab had the same feature!
The Beolab 5000 have the same function as the Beomaster 4400.
You need to "move" a couple of sliders and perhaps one or more switches.
You can set the Beolab 5000 to liniar by:
1. tonecontrols in zero possition
2. laudness off
3. filters off
All this is of course well known but my point is - when measuring the actual liniarity of the Beomaster 4400 compared with the Beolab 5000 - the two amplifiers are really of the same high quality of liniarity - typical within 0.25 dB @20Hz-30kHz.
/Frede
classic: The Beolab 5000 have the same function as the Beomaster 4400. You need to "move" a couple of sliders and perhaps one or more switches. You can set the Beolab 5000 to liniar by: 1. tonecontrols in zero possition 2. laudness off 3. filters off All this is of course well known but my point is - when measuring the actual liniarity of the Beomaster 4400 compared with the Beolab 5000 - the two amplifiers are really of the same high quality of liniarity - typical within 0.25 dB @20Hz-30kHz. /Frede
Yes of course, but my point is that with all these filters off and the tone controls set at the zero position, the 4400 sounds better with the linear switch engaged. So what if the Beolab had the complex filter circuits bypassed? Would it sound even better then?
Jacques
I can believe there would be a difference in sound between "linear" which bypasses all the tone controls and such, and just zeroing everything. Even if you set the tone cntls to zero, etc. they likely are not truly zero. Tolerances in component values, particularly the potentiometers used for the tone controls and such, often lead to small frequency response differences even set flat. Plus you have the additional noise and other issues from the cicruitry being in the loop still.
It could be a freq response issue, or it could be something as seemingly innocent as a slight left/right balance issue, which can show itself as differences in imaging, etc. One reason equalizers got such a bad rep was even set to zero that's a lot of filters for the signal to be going thru. Of course, the main reason was that most people didn't adjust them well, heck, if a little boost/cut works, a lot works better, right? Most people's equalizers wound up perpetually set on a Fletcher/Munsen curve.
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Of course, a good double blind test would be interesting. Obscure the front of the unit with a cloth, and have someone else set the linear switch on or off so you don't know it. You leave the room, they come in and set it on or off and leave, you come back in and listen, etc. Make a number of listens and see how often you correctly pick whether it's on or off. Might surprise you!
Graham,
I could take offense to the comment about European taste being more sophisticated than North American, but then I also know that I prefer white wine over red (another North American preference), and really enjoy a good barbeque. So it is what it is and isn’t it grand to have different tastes?
Cleve,
I am not sure what bass control actually has to do with this particular situation, but something really is wrong here.
While I expect/fear screams of heresy I am seriously contemplating switching speakers in regard to these two amplifiers.
Why? Well first the Beomaster 4500 did a superlative job powering these speakers regardless of the fact that under a heavy demand situation the 4500 is considerably under-powered.
At the same time the Beomaster 4400 “should” be able to do a much more commendable job with the S120.2 speakers. However this simply ISN’T the case, as at “7” on the volume control the 4400 goes into its auto-protect zone with its red lamp proudly illuminated.
To duplicate the over-all sound reproduction between the two amplifiers using these S120.2 speakers the 4500 requires a “2” increase to the bass while the 4400 requires a “4” (out of a possible 5) to achieve the same thing.
Worse, the Beomaster 4500 is able to achieve a higher volume sans distortion with the power hungry S120.2 speakers, which to my lay person’s ears makes absolutely no sense at all.
Now before someone jumps in and asks why anyone would want to listen to music at ear-splitting volume, I don’t, and that isn’t the point. The point is, is an amplifier capable of properly reproducing sound at spike levels?
Correct me if I am wrong but since the 4500 previously demonstrated a general capacity to handle these S120.2 speakers and the 4400 appears to be both at odds with these speakers (requiring so much bass correction) and not really up to the power challenge, might it not be expected to do a better job with less power demanding speakers like the S75’s…. PLUS the S75’s are by design more bassy than the S120.2. I see it as a win/win situation.
The other plus in this whole equation is all the swapping forced me to address the two dead speaker situation with my S45’s and one corrected gave me a whole new appreciation of both the S45’s and the Beomaster 2400 that I never had before.
I have to jump in here, not with any comments on the sophisticated discussion you are having, its way to high for me.
But I just bought this one, hope it turns out to be a good one, will get it down here September or October
Treble plexi missing
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
You know sometimes products are a mismatch for their owners, not so much that there is anything wrong with either party, but like two nice people in a bad marriage. I am beginning to believe that this is the case here with my new Beomaster 4400.
I know what doesn’t work, the disco era of my youth…. this amp is simply not suitable.
So I decided to try something more in keeping with its reputed refinement, Gabrieli/Canzonas for bass, winds, strings, and organ with E. Power Biggs, organist. It began well and I thought I had something. I tried using the linear control and with its use it is apparent the treble improves with it, but the bass suffers correspondingly.
However the more the record played on my Beogram 8002/MMC2 the more the upper range annoyed. Like the Linn Isobaric speakers, the S120.2 are EXTRA crisp in the high end and this amplifier seems to exaggerate this characteristic much to my chagrin.
It is not like I am not a complete devotee of B&O products as I own and admire greatly 6 Beograms, 2 Beocords, 2 Beogram CD players, 2 Beomasters, 1 BeoCenter, and an assortment of B&O speakers.
My plan is either to switch the S120.2 speakers for the S75 speakers, and if that doesn’t improve things just put the damn thing on eBay and be done with an unfortunate experience.
It is very tempting to send you my 4400 and see if it is any different. Not sure how that would work via customs but if you can think of a way, maybe we can discuss it. My 4400 never had any problems driving anything, including my M100s (still not got the bass unit back yet!) and S120s are not tricky to drive - mine are used with a 9500 and they sound great.
This is beyond a temping offer and if it works for you I will be more than happy to accommodate!
Right now I need to remind myself all the positives I have gained with the B&O collection of mine.
The whole thing happened as a series of accidents but fortuitous ones at that. [I couldn’t find anyone to repair my BG 8000, which led to the BG4004 & 4002/BM2400 acquisition, but only THEN did I find the BG 4000, the crown jewel of my collection.]
I also received a remarkable amount of selfless generosity from perfect strangers without whom I NEVER would have been able to repair either my original BG 8000 or the shattered in shipment BG4000.
Not to mention all free gifts over the years, all four S75’s and four S45’s were gifts along with the BeoCenter 9000 as well as the “guts” for my restored BG 8000.
But before we go to the expense of shipping your BM4400 back and forth over the pond, let me do the swap of speakers that I mentioned to see what, if any effect that has.
In answer to your question, no I didn’t get the bass back…. never had it to begin with.
I have never been so utterly disenchanted with a piece of stereophonic equipment in my life, even with the bass slide at 5 there isn’t much, and for whatever reason the highs are just plain annoying: occasionally screechy and plastic sounding. The one thing the sound from this combination of BM4400 and S120.2 isn’t; is real….. more like cheap fake.
I will try the swap today and report the outcome.
If that amp sounds that different/bad I'd be very suspicious that it's broken/way out of spec. It'd be interesting to bench test it.
I swapped amplifiers and I find myself speechless and most surprised.
First I connected the Beomaster 4500 to the S120.2 speakers more than a little concerned that my memory of the 4500’s sound quality had been exaggerated in my mind…. it wasn’t. The BIG difference from the past, which is part of “my” problem, is the S120.2’s are now elevated, whereas they had always been sitting on the floor, no doubt mitigating the overly bright high end notes.
With the minor adjustment to the bass/treble, +1 for the bass and -2 for the treble, the Beomaster delights as it always has. This little amp has a robust sound quality considering its power output.
I then set up the Beomaster 4400 with my Beogram 8000 and S75 speakers and there simply are no appropriate words to convey the tectonic difference. The feeble volume now a thing of the past and all the bass that one could want…. and more. I turned the volume up to the point I feared damaging the speakers (and my ears) and the overload lamp barely flickered and only once.
The bass/ treble adjustments are +1 for the bass and neutral for the treble and what a fantastic sound results. I tried the linear switch and that produced a good sound, but I went back to my own setting.
In truth I didn’t know the S75’s had “it” in them….. certainly not remotely comparable to the Beomaster 2400/S75 combination.
After hearing so many kudos for the iconic Beomaster 4400 I admit that have felt rather cheated. The meager volume, utter missing bass, coupled with the unpleasant plastic sounding upper end had me thinking something must be wrong with the new speaker cabled I just purchased.
However that can’t be the case as the much less powerful Beomaster 4500 has NO problem powering the S120.2 speakers.
Intellectually I would love to know what caused the miserable performance with the Beomaster 4400/S120.2 combination, but in truth, I am more relieved than anything.
Are you sure you didn't accidentally get them wired out of phase? One symptom of that is no bass...
How could I get them wired out of phase as I am using DIN style speaker plugs?
What I did do it to swap the amplifiers leaving everything else, speaker wires included in place. I unplugged one amp and plugged in the other in both locations.
Initially the Beomaster 4400 sounded OK, not great, but OK. (At least this is my best memory of the situation.) However the sound quality deteriorated more or less overnight to the point that it wasn’t worth listening to. From the beginning there was an issue with the volume and the bass was feeble at best.
I had thought about a short in the new wiring, but had that been the case the protection-happy Beomaster 4500 would have let me know in no uncertain terms! This particular amp does not suffer an overload demand well, but this didn’t happen. Once the tone levels were adjusted for the new speakers, the Beomaster 4500 delighted as it historically has.
Now when I connected the Beomaster 4400 to the existing system I had very little hope it would do any better than it had with the S120.2 speakers. I was stunned by the volume and the enormous amount of bass.
Oddly the Beomaster 2400 which had powered these S75’s for years never impressed… not until couples with my rebuilt S45’s which was not short of miraculous!
I suppose it is possible that the Beomaster 4400 is happier with the less demanding S75 speakers, but at 150 watts of power it should have been able to handle the S120.2 speakers easily.
So what happened here? Honestly I don’t know but my best “guess” is there is a solder fault at the speaker connection and I just got lucky that the second insertion of the speaker connections worked where it didn’t on my first try.
While the Beomaster 4500 and the S120.2 speakers is an extreme match, the 4500 seems happy enough to power these speakers, although I know if the volume demand was increased to a very high level the 4500 would protest.
The Beomaster 4400 is probably too much for the S75 speakers, but as it still cuts back when pressed I don’t see this as a problem.
Truth is I had wanted the Beomaster 4400 as a showpiece in my living room along with the Beogram 4000, Beogram 8002, Beocord 9000, and the S120.2 speakers. As it is the Beomaster 4400 is relegated to a minor role in my dining room….. not what I had planned, but for now it works.
If I was forced to make a judgment here I would say that my most respected shop missed something or some things with the restoration of this Beomaster. I am not kidding myself as I have to know that something is wrong, this amp should not have had the volume/bass issue it did in the first place. And although it now sounds remarkably well with the S75 speakers, I don’t see why it goes into clipping, even at a rather high level of 7.
I have NO need to play music at that level so I am “satisfied” with the current situation. I sound really is impressive and I swear I had no idea the S75’s could sound that good. Lord knows my pristine pair of S75’s do not begin to equal the sound quality powered by my BeoCenter 9000, so the Beomaster 4400 is doing something right.
Hi Peter,
While I am considerably relieved that my Beomaster 4400 now has considerable volume and as much bass as one could possibly want, I am none the less concerned that something must be seriously amiss or I wouldn’t have had this problem in the first place.
In spite of the fact that this Beomaster has made my S75 speakers sound better than they ever have it is still a major mismatch of power ‘vs. capacity….. a 150 watt amp SHOULD be able to drive S75’s with no difficulty at all with plenty of horsepower to spare, yet when pushed to 7, the overload lamp flickers, if only briefly.
The truth is I have no need to play music at or beyond this level, BUT it troubles me that my Beomaster 4400 is unable to do so, when I believe it should.
If there were any problem with my original setup my Beomaster 4500 would have suffered the same fate as the Beomaster 4400, but this was not the case.
I am thinking that there maybe a solder issue at the speaker connection or perhaps a faulty resistor or capacitor that affects the performance of a transistor.
In any case I believe that my well respected shop missed something, or perhaps several items.
As such if you are still so inclined to send me your Beomaster 4400, I am open to suggestions.
There could be a phase fault inside one of the S120 speakers.It wouldn't be a first. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had a pair of speakers in for repairsthat came directly from another repairer who refoamed them.It was one of the better refoam jobs but they had been put back together with no attentionto driver polarity at all and sounded very strange.
But wouldn't this also affect the performance of the Beomaster 4500.... even more so considering its meager wattage output? Further as this Beomaster has cheerfully dealt with these S120.2 speakers for several years doesn’t it strike you as strange that this “problem” suddenly surfaced?
As a side note NOT to deflect from the important subject matter at hand, in regard to my BeoCenter 9000 and it’s failing capacitor, regular use has made this point moot, for the time being. That is to say the CD player now performs reasonably well 95% of the time.
Sounds like there is a solder joint somewhere that has caused a problem! Glad to hear that the 4400 is working well now - there seems little point in sending you the 4401 to try now as there is always a risk of damage both physically and electronically - I do wonder if this might be the case with yours. I think the cost would make what would now prove to be an academic exercise rather a waste of resources!
On the bass unit, I meant the bass unit in my M100s, which is off being repaired at present! It is in deepest Norfolk! Until it returns, the 4401 is having a bit of a rest!
I quite agree there is little point to risking your fine 4401 in shipping now that my 4400 is functioning for the moment.
I was talked into conveying what happened to my Beomaster to the restoration shop and the owner reacted fairly mildly wanting more details, but insisting that everything was “above spec” when it left his shop.
That may well be, but something was very wrong when it arrived here.
The accretion is that I must have done something incorrectly, which is always possible.
However I HAD intended this Beomaster 4400 to be a centerpiece in my B&O collection. Instead my much admired Beomaster 4500/Beogram CD player sits in the 4400’s place oh honour.
The Beomaster 4400 is now relegated to the dining room and quite frankly I am afraid to touch it fearing whatever solder point is bad will be effected by any movement.
Well I just eliminated another potential for trouble, wires that were out of polarity. My new set of speaker wires are identical in all aspects, well-made, AND the same “printed on” wire connects to the narrow post on both sets.
So whatever happened here, still unresolved, it was NOT the wires….. and as you know, one can NOT inset a DIN speaker plug improperly.