ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Fair enough. I think there is a difference between arguing with everything someone writes, and just disagreeing with everything someone writes.
I simply can't see the connection between a car company reviewing the design of the one model that they are really recognised by, and which has kept them afloat over a number of decades, and an AV company reviewing the design of a newish model that sells less than the bv7. Just seems l,e a stupi statement, that's all.
Paul W: If so, there's no wonder the younger generation are not interested in this brand.
If so, there's no wonder the younger generation are not interested in this brand.
Ps. I am intrigued. How old are you, and how old do you think I am?
Paul W:Anyway lets not argue over a television because, my God, this is low when people are so bored that they talk about something as insignificant as that!
Shocking forum behavior, especially on one dedicated to A/V!
In the immortal words of Herbert Morrison: "Oh, the inanity!"
paul w doesnt help himself,I am in my early 30s and everyone I know has numerous tvs
.I have never been to a home were there has not been at least one tv,and thats from all age ranges from 18-80.I enjoy outdoor pursuits,but still watch tv and movies.
I have alot of younger cousins in their early 20s,who work all day and party most nights in the city,and they all have tvs in their apartments.They use their laptops for work.
I'm also 30, and I think that everyone I know has a TV, but it is a fact that now we watch less and less TV and more and more VOD/movies/computer content. But the TV still remains the "big screen of the home" for the majority of people.
I was at the IFA, the TV manufacturers have understood that the TV is becoming the home "digital hub" and tend to create an ecosystem around the TV.
As for the comment about not having a life because we speak of TV... That's really interesting to say that on a TV topic in a AV forum...
diisign.com
Steffen:Hmm... I've just read in a danish newspaper, that the BV 12 wasn't selling as well as expected. So...
My dealer told me that if I buy the BV12 (their ex-demo unit), they wouldn't have it back as a trade-in, at a later date, so read in to that as you will. It's one reason why I didn't go for the BV12. They advised to wait for the BV11, too.
mbee: I'm also 30, and I think that everyone I know has a TV, but it is a fact that now we watch less and less TV and more and more VOD/movies/computer content. But the TV still remains the "big screen of the home" for the majority of people. I was at the IFA, the TV manufacturers have understood that the TV is becoming the home "digital hub" and tend to create an ecosystem around the TV. As for the comment about not having a life because we speak of TV... That's really interesting to say that on a TV topic in a AV forum...
Who understands Paul anyway..?He doesn't want to buy a tv - but he loves to comment on them. He don't know anyone who owns a tv...(maybe widening his social circles would be an eye-opener..?) He has earlier come up with some rediculous comments about that people who buys big tv's must be uneducated, etc...(he even finds large screens 'offensive'...)He makes comments about young vs. old people...(offcourse he is one of the young 'enlightened' people...) He's talking about some 'arrogant and harsh' people on Beoworld, while he's patronizing and rude to everyone who disagrees with him...
I've always hated the 911 as for something german it's so inefficient in a practical boring way.
Then again maybe i'm a boring old fart. LOL
Tonker:Having just bought a 10-46 and happy with it, what technical improvements could you expect or even notice over the current system using the new chassis? Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2 and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Tonker:Heinz see if you can get a Beolab 11 instead of a discount. Financially it's probably the same, but having just spent a night listening to the Last night of the Proms trust me, you won't regret it. Perfect match. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2 and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6.
seheiste:I agree. Tomorrow I will order a BV10-40 to replace my BV3-32 which I bought when it was about to be discontinued. I got it for a good price, both hardware and software were of high quality. I have used this TV for over 8 years without a single problem. For the same reason I'll go for the BV10-40. It,s the most beautiful TV I've seen, fits perfectly into my link system, technically it's good enough (I don't need 3D), price is OK, and it's definitely more stable than a new model. /Heinz
Beste Grüße / Best regards
Schlaumeier
Setup Livingroom: BeoVision 10-40 and 10-32, BeoLab 6000 front, BeoLab 4000 rear, BeoLab 11, Ouverture, Apple TV 2 & 4, Airport Express, 6 x LC2.
Other Rooms: 3 x BeoSound 8, BeoVision 8-26, MX 4002, 2 x Keyring, 2 x Beolit 15, A1, Airport Express, 4 x Beo4, 2 x Beocom 5
I don't like this new habit of B&O replacing products that are barely 5 years old with another new design: where is the timeless philosophy that saw products like BeoVox CX100 stay in the catalogue for 20 years, or the MX TV reach the age of 18? Even BeoLab 8000 is turning 20, and it makes me sad to see concepts like BV5 replaced by a BV9 (that could simply have become a BV5 Mk2), or even BV6 replaced by BV8, and now BV10..
Can't they simply fit the new V1 video engine inside all TVs? Without changing the whole product range? Look at the Avant, it went from curved screen and VHS to flat screen and DVD, and kept its name & looks..
100% agree with christophe.
Christophe : I don't like this new habit of B&O replacing products that are barely 5 years old with another new design
I don't like this new habit of B&O replacing products that are barely 5 years old with another new design
I agree with this and, yes, it's confusing for two reasons:
1) Once you perfect the design, the primary interchangeable part should be the panel. If a laptop maker can build an entire PC within a laptop case, I'm sure B&O can re-design a future chassis upgrade, without having to redesign the case to accommodate. I agree that the BV10 is a great design and has 2-3 years, with panel upgrades etc, of life left.
2) Bringing out new designs means that it becomes MUCH harder to trade-in old TVs. No dealer will want a BV10, if it's replaced by a BV11 with a different design. It's not that the BV10 will look outdated, it's because it becomes harder for a dealer to keep older TVs on display and/or show potential customers how the older model compares in price against a current (BV10). Basically, if my 9 month BV10-46 is replaced this October with a BV11, the trade-in value will drop dramatically after a year of ownership. That will be unprecedented for me.
And the reason for mentioning this is simply that it's always been the core of buying B&O TV for me. Buy a B&O, keep it for about 2-3 years (where it should still be a current model), trade it in against a newer model. Newer model, after trade-in, costs about the same as a top-of-the-range Sony.
If they break this cycle, this will seriously affect how I perceive B&O TVs. For instance, say I try and trade that 1-year-old BV10-46 in, after only a year, and I receive a £3K offer and a new BV11-46 is £9000 in a year (I know we've speculated that the replacement BV10 will be cheaper, but we'll see...), I'll be stuffed. I know we shouldn't be guaranteed a trade-in, but it's always been like this for me, since 2003. Since 2003, I've traded in my B&O every 2-3 years, with success. Dealer gets a well looked after, mint, top-of-the-range current TV, I walk away after paying £2500-£3000, with an installed replacement, with much improved panel.
moxxey:I agree with this and, yes, it's confusing for two reasons: 1) Once you perfect the design, the primary interchangeable part should be the panel. If a laptop maker can build an entire PC within a laptop case, I'm sure B&O can re-design a future chassis upgrade, without having to redesign the case to accommodate. I agree that the BV10 is a great design and has 2-3 years, with panel upgrades etc, of life left. 2) Bringing out new designs means that it becomes MUCH harder to trade-in old TVs. No dealer will want a BV10, if it's replaced by a BV11 with a different design. It's not that the BV10 will look outdated, it's because it becomes harder for a dealer to keep older TVs on display and/or show potential customers how the older model compares in price against a current (BV10). Basically, if my 9 month BV10-46 is replaced this October with a BV11, the trade-in value will drop dramatically after a year of ownership. That will be unprecedented for me. And the reason for mentioning this is simply that it's always been the core of buying B&O TV for me. Buy a B&O, keep it for about 2-3 years (where it should still be a current model), trade it in against a newer model. Newer model, after trade-in, costs about the same as a top-of-the-range Sony. If they break this cycle, this will seriously affect how I perceive B&O TVs. For instance, say I try and trade that 1-year-old BV10-46 in, after only a year, and I receive a £3K offer and a new BV11-46 is £9000 in a year (I know we've speculated that the replacement BV10 will be cheaper, but we'll see...), I'll be stuffed. I know we shouldn't be guaranteed a trade-in, but it's always been like this for me, since 2003. Since 2003, I've traded in my B&O every 2-3 years, with success. Dealer gets a well looked after, mint, top-of-the-range current TV, I walk away after paying £2500-£3000, with an installed replacement, with much improved panel.
Schlaumeier:Yes, it is a wonderful tv. i've bought a new white 10-40 last month without caring about an upcoming new chassis (only rumours as well). no problems with software, picture or sound. just nice and good looking overall for now and (at least) the next ten years! Beste Grüße / Best regards Schlaumeier Setup Livingroom: BeoVision 10-40, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 11, Ouverture, Apple TV, Airport Express, 5 x LC2. Other Rooms: 3 x BeoSound 8, BeoVision 8-26, MX 8000, 2 x MX 4002, 2 x Keyring, Airport Express
seheiste:On Friday I'll get my brand new BV 10-40. What an exciting weekend!
I don't know if BV10-40&46 will be discountinued or not, but its sounds like the BV10-32 would have an update with the V1 chassis, available in a few weeks.
There is an EMEA conference for dealers next week in Barcelona, we should have more news coming from them after that
I don't see what's wrong with the BV10 as it is . Maybe upgrade the sw ?
It makes anything else on the market - including the loewe wannabees look stone age.
Flappo: I don't see what's wrong with the BV10 as it is . Maybe upgrade the sw ?
That's what I said above. Upgraded panel and sw and that's fine by me. I don't see why they need to change anything else. OLED and/or 4K might be coming, but there's nothing massively new or innovative that they need to implement, that requires a re-design.
As many other say, the BV 10 is a piece of art. Every time I walk upstairs where we have our BV10 I look at it and really enjoy it. It looks so perfect. I hope it will stay in production for many years.
Flappo: I don't see what's wrong with the BV10 as it is . Maybe upgrade the sw ? It makes anything else on the market - including the loewe wannabees look stone age.
Whilst I agree the external design still looks timeless, behind the screen - its really old! Essentially, the basis of the chassis and system are nearly 8-9 years old now. Modern TV's now feature multi-purpose operating systems - often Linux - that enable web connectivity and applications. Whilst these may not be any match for what is on your PC or iPad, soon this hardware will feature more elegant experiences and you'll soon be at a loss without them. Remember, the current BV software was designed to help you primarily adjust picture and sound. Todays TV hardware features hardware and software comparable with that in you smart phone or tablet.
mawheele: Whilst I agree the external design still looks timeless, behind the screen - its really old! Essentially, the basis of the chassis and system are nearly 8-9 years old now. Modern TV's now feature multi-purpose operating systems - often Linux - that enable web connectivity and applications. Whilst these may not be any match for what is on your PC or iPad, soon this hardware will feature more elegant experiences and you'll soon be at a loss without them.
Whilst I agree the external design still looks timeless, behind the screen - its really old! Essentially, the basis of the chassis and system are nearly 8-9 years old now. Modern TV's now feature multi-purpose operating systems - often Linux - that enable web connectivity and applications. Whilst these may not be any match for what is on your PC or iPad, soon this hardware will feature more elegant experiences and you'll soon be at a loss without them.
If Apple can produce a virtual computer in the size of the Apple TV - or even the Mac Mini motherboard - I'm sure B&O could re-work the internals of the BV10, without requiring a redesign. That's Flappo's point and I agree. The BV10 is huge and relatively deep for a flat screen TV. There's plenty of room in there. You can redesign internals without having to redesign the exterior.
moxxey:If Apple can produce a virtual computer in the size of the Apple TV - or even the Mac Mini motherboard - I'm sure B&O could re-work the internals of the BV10, without requiring a redesign. That's Flappo's point and I agree
No disagreement there at all. I'm sure the updated product will be in the same framework. But its much tougher for B&O. Companies like Apple and Sumsung are able to package so much better because they own the silicon or system on a chip. IMOP B&O does not have the engineering capability to do an Apple TV with the level of board integration - in fact I said it was commercially impossible for their volumes.
mawheele: No disagreement there at all. I'm sure the updated product will be in the same framework. But its much tougher for B&O. Companies like Apple and Sumsung are able to package so much better because they own the silicon or system on a chip. IMOP B&O does not have the engineering capability to do an Apple TV with the level of board integration - in fact I said it was commercially impossible for their volumes.
No, but then most other TV manufacturers simply license this technology and there's no reason why B&O couldn't license something like the Chrome box (http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html) or a Linux-based motherboard. You don't need a powerful computer to run a Linux OS. There are plenty of options out there without having to re-design the BV10 to achieve it :)
I've been told that the bv10 looks the same as the bv11, the only difference is v1 chassis and 3D and build in mediaplayer.
koning: I've been told that the bv10 looks the same as the bv11, the only difference is v1 chassis and 3D and build in mediaplayer.
That would make perfect sense. They would not scrap the BV10 form factor.
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Perhaps it will have the same kind of speaker system as the new flat speakers and BV12? I cant understand why anyone would buy the BV10 now on sale. It is such a huge investment anyway and it will be outdated in less than a month. But I think the design is gorgeous so I can understand it a bit. But anyway..
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
My dealer is offering the ex demo BV10-40 for a tad over 4K nice!!!
It's perfect!!! Doesnt even need a built in media player - far better to opt for an Apple TV box with it! Let Apple do the software there...
Paul W: It's perfect!!! Doesnt even need a built in media player - far better to opt for an Apple TV box with it! Let Apple do the software there...
:) But the hardware and software is a bit dated. I wish that they do work more on removing glare. I think both the BV7 and BV10 is extremely bad in light. Even with anti glare coating. Look at the iPhone, iPad and not the last - MacBook Pro retina. They have glued the screen to the glass on the iPhone and iPad. On the MacBook Pro Retina the complete glass cover is the actual screen glass. On the BV10/BV7 there is a huge space between the glossy screen and the glass panel. This causes many unnecessary reflections and the risk for dust or other things inside the screen space. They should work closer with the panel developer and make either a glued solution or a flat glas solution. It will make the TV thinner, lighter and it will take less energy to light the leds since it will not have to compensate for the light issues.
Thank Schiaumeler. :) It just makes real sense to me - Apple TV is super AND Apple know what they are doing with the software and its truly stable! Let B&O make the TVs :) And at £99/99 dollars, it really is upgradable isn't it!!!
C’mon, stay real now..
I like Apple too, just like you. It’s that my ATV2 is jailbraked so I can play any video-format and run XBMC, but normally an Apple TV is far from perfect!
Michael: :) But the hardware and software is a bit dated. I wish that they do work more on removing glare. I think both the BV7 and BV10 is extremely bad in light. Even with anti glare coating. Look at the iPhone, iPad and not the last - MacBook Pro retina.
:) But the hardware and software is a bit dated. I wish that they do work more on removing glare. I think both the BV7 and BV10 is extremely bad in light. Even with anti glare coating. Look at the iPhone, iPad and not the last - MacBook Pro retina.
My BV10 is no worse than this Retina MBP. I'm sitting in the same room as my BV10, on the rMBP right now. The window behind me - on a dull day - is clearly visible and distracting. Ok, it's better than the previous MBP (as the rMBP lacks glass), but it's still very present. The BV10 currently shares the same reflection and I'd say it's almost identical to the reflection on this rMBP.
With a glossy screen you will get reflection, yet people want a glossy screen, because of its looks. It looks more expensive or neat (I have trouble finding words here).. If you have a matt screen you dont get the same reflections, but the apearence is quite dull..
Regarding the built in systems of the smart TVs - it is a new technology - every manufacturer has its own standard.. (Like VHS & Beta or DVD & Laserdisc) There is no need in rushing into something new before there is a standard..
If B&O decides to put technology X (samsung smart tv for example) into their TVs and after 3 years the technology Y (LG) is the standard everyone uses the NEW B&O tv are outdated directly..
For me I think it is better to have separate boxes, AppleTV, Mac, settop box on the side until the branch has decided for a standard..
I find it a little sad that I just (january) bought the BV10-46 (with old tech) for alot of money.. If I would have known there will be a new tv out later this year I would have waited for it..
Anyway I still think it looks great and the picture is really good!