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Hi everyone,
I recently bought a pair of beovox S75 speakers to replace my current speakers. They were in awfull shape though... A previous owner painted them white(!) and the guy who I bought them from did a small try to remove the paint with a heat gun. It seemed to work OK for the veneer, but It seems that the back of the speakers started to melt a bit.
I've been busy with them to this point, removing all the paint. I used a chemical stripper that (free translated) said to be hard on paint but soft for wood. That sounded like something I could use!!
Altough most of the paint came off quite easy, There is still some paint left in the deeper woodgrains. Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove this safely?
I've read about Rich his superb job on rescueing some M70 speakers (http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/35494.aspx) where it shows that thorough sanding can lead to sanding all the veneer away. Ofcourse I don't want that...
Any good ideas?
René
Along with Rich, member Søren Mexico has done a lot of nice repairs of Bang & Olufsen woodwork veneers. Search on the workbench forum for postings by Søren Mexico to check out some of his projects. I have done a few rescues as well. Using the chemical stripper is a good start in your case. Now you will have to get into some careful sanding. If you stick with some finer grit sanding material you can avoid taking off too much veneer as you get the remaining paint off. However, some paint may be soaked to far into the wood grain.Can you post some pictures of the speakers as you have them now?
-sonavor
I'm trying to upload the pictures, but it without succes...
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The mighty Beovox S75!
Painted white........
The guy I bought them from made a (very) small start...
Packed to protect the drivers. One side without paint!
Works nice, but smells bad!! That chemical paint remover.
One ready for sanding (?) the other still has the paint on....
In close-up you can see the paint left in the woodgrain...
Good luck with the restoration.
I wonder if we couldn't borrow a page out of the old vinyl record savior's manual. You know how some folks say the best way to get deep grit out of an LP record is to spread white (PVA, Elmer's) or carpenter's glue over the record, let it dry, then peel the glue off? I've never tried the technique myself, but I've read some people's take on the process.
Well, obviously we can't put white or carpenter's glue on wood. But what about rubber cement or something that wouldn't penetrate wood? Perhaps that would adhere to the paint in the "grooves" of the veneer, but would also just peel off the veneer like a dead layer of skin.
Your progress looks pretty good. Søren pointed me to this product a long time ago. It is a medium grade, re-usable sanding pad that works quite well. There are also some finer grit levels of the same product. Another thing Søren uses in his wood restoration is Acetone to clean off old grime from the wood. Being wood veneer I don't think I would use any cement type coatings as the veneer is still porous. Cleaning and sanding is the way I would go.
I would also like to add that the area you have recovered so far already looks way better than the white paint.
Hi,
very good progress, only minor remains of old paint.
I think that carpenters glue will penetrate to veneer (it is soaking material).
I recommend NOT to use that type of glue for veneer and wood for removing old paint, because carpenters glue will penetrate to veneer (it is soaking material).
Vinyl record is non soaking material so after drying you can remove all the glue and dirt in crust.
Another treatment with the same paint remover?
Thanks for all the comments so far!
I agree with priklep and sonavor about not using the glue-trick. On one of the speakers there was some kind of a cloth glued to the underside. Probably to avoid scratches on the furniture it was standing on. With removing the cloth, a little of the veneer came off with it because the glue was attached so strong... Good that it's just the underside.
Maybe I'll try using another treatment with the paint remover. It should be soft for wood!
That's the cloth. That last bit was glued on strong!
Hmmmm, it seems that the plastic backside couldn't stand the chemicals in that paint remover... A top layer of the plastic has loosend, there are blisters in it. Looks like I'll have to softly sand them and spraypaint them in black again...
I tried to remove the small amount of paint, left in the woodgrain, with another treatment of the paint remover. I can't really tell if it helped or not. There still is a bit of paint showing. I tried using a steelbrush to get deeper into the grain, but that didn't work too..
I think I'll just try some light sanding and hope for the best. I'm thinking of finishing the speakers with a darker mahogany-like oil. Maybe that will cover the paint up too.
Typically we sand the veneer down to remove the blemishes and clean well with acetone. Once it is as close as you can get it, apply boiled linseed oil (or Danish oil). I dug up some old Beoworld thread links where veneer was refinished. Check these out.
Here is an old thread where I repaired my SC60 cabinet.
Here is an old thread where Søren restored a nice Beomaster 4400 rosewood cover.
Here is another good one where Søren restored a set of Beovox M70 speakers (a cousin to your S75s).
Thanks sonavor, You're a big help!
I will read them in my spare hours today...
just using the Danish oil probably won't cover the white paint, don't you think? Or is there some colour in it?
No, the Danish Oil (or Boiled Linseed Oil) is an oil finish. You wipe it on and wipe it dry. To remove the paint remnants I think you will need to do some sanding (by hand...no power sander) and clean with some acetone.
I've taken a picture of the veneer, before doing another treatment with the paint remover, sanding with sandingpaper 120 and cleaning with aceton. After that I took a picture of that same spot for comparison.
This is the before picture:
This the after picture:
You can see that a little of the paint disappeared, but there's still some left behind in the grain...
By the way, what kind of wood is this? Is it teak?
According to your other pics I will say Rose wood the teak has a finer and straighter grain, you have done a very good job with the cleaning, try with acetone to get the last paint out, then try to find a darkening stain like Old English for dark woods, use a small brush and apply it on the paint rests, let soak for 5-10 min. wipe off excess, do this 4 to 5 times. I had some very damaged Rose wood and with Old English I got it nearly perfect. If it works, when you have the match, let dry a couple of hours and then sand lightly again and treat it all with linseed or Danish oil, you have a very dry wood now so let the oil really soak in, I normally apply a lot and let it soak for at least 1 hour when the wood is very dry .
And dont forget the pics, we are checking on you.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Three thoughts.
1. Why not try to get into those grooves with a wooden toothpick (after applying acetone)?
2. At some point you're going to have to just stop and be satisfied. We are our own worst critics, and some of us often spend far too long trying to get that last fraction of a percent toward perfection.
3. From your listening position, you're not even going to notice what's left in those grooves.
From your earlier picture of the bottom of the speaker cabinet you can tell that it is the rosewood finish. Once you get a little more sanding, cleaning and picking of the remaining paint out of the way the suggested use of Old English to restore some color should do the trick. You can experiment with the bottom of the cabinet to get a feel for how the process works (although it appears the color on the bottom is still pretty good). You're making great progress and I think this type of restoration is a lot slower and requires more patience than the electronic part of the audio restorations.
You could also try rubbing with wire wool (again after applying acetone).
If you do this, I would choose brass wool rather than steel, as any tiny pieces that break off and end up embedded in the grain will not then create rust spots.
Kind Regards,
Martin.
Ok, here's the plan:
I'll peel off the largest pieces of remaing paint with a needle ( I allready did that, it works but works terribly slow, so doing all of the paint that way will take way too long) after that, some more cleaning with acetone and different kinds of material (I was using the steel wool, but after reading Martins post, maybe thats not a good idea...) I have two brass brushes, One quite soft, the other a bit harder. Ofcourse the harder brush cleans better and deeper and it can take paint out, but it takes a lot of wood away too and makes the grain very deep and open, so I'm very carefull using that one. Then I will use the "old english" (what could this be called here in Belgium, are there other names for it? I will see if I can find it in the store later today)
Ofcourse I'll post the pictures taken during the process!
using needle to remove white paint from pores is good idea, but will be very time consuming. You will be able to remove only bigger residua, but it can help a lot.
Curious about pictures.
Any ideas about other names for "old english" and "danish oil"? I've been to one store sofar and couldn't find any...
In Danish it is called " linolie" which comes from the hoerseed or linseed.
Best regards
René.
Oh sorry, I didn´t see there was one more page, my answer is about the oil. :-
Edit by remdk
RunieNL:some more cleaning with acetone and different kinds of material (I was using the steel wool, but after reading Martins post, maybe thats not a good idea...)
Despite what I said, I wouldn't worry too much in this instance, It's much more of an issue when the finished product is likely to be exposed to moisture.
RunieNL:I have two brass brushes, One quite soft, the other a bit harder. Ofcourse the harder brush cleans better and deeper and it can take paint out, but it takes a lot of wood away too and makes the grain very deep and open, so I'm very carefull using that one.
Yeah, I guess a wire brush is likely to be much more effective at removing the paint from within the grain than wire wool, but also a lot more abrasive to the surface of the wood. If using a brush I would stick to doing so whilst the wood is dry.
RunieNL:Any ideas about other names for "old english" and "danish oil"? I've been to one store sofar and couldn't find any...
Danish oil is the usual name It's a mixture of linseed along with a little varnish. From what I can see it does seem to be called Danish oil (or deense olie) in .nl so perhaps just try another store.
Here and here is the Old English Oil that Søren is referring to.
Hmmm, still can't find either danish oil or old english... I had to stop searching to put my two year old daughter to bed...
I therefore started with the backsides. Just some sanding to prepare it for spraypainting. But I noticed a difference between the two speakers.On one speaker the screwholes for the stands are in the same plane as the backside:
On the other speaker they stick a bit out:
What is the correct situation, and what can be done to correct it?
If you dont find Danish oil go for boiled linseed oil, and if you cant get Old English over there, find a dark oil based wood stain, it has to be oil based to go with the linseed oil
As for the screw bushings, check the inside of the speaker they are normally pressed in from the inside, if it is loose press it back in, if not put a wood block on it and carefully try to bang it back in with a hammer, in both cases epoxy it from the inside when finished
Ok, the bushings couldn't be pressed in, but were easily hammered in. I will fixate them later, when I start with the inside. I still haven't found an oil-based wood stain. Most of them are water-based or wax... I'll keep searching for them or order them online if I have too.
Off topic:The S75's are my first B&O purchase. I'm looking for a receiver that matches these S75's both in looks and sound. There's a Beomaster 3000-2 for sale somewhat nearby, and I really like the looks of it. In the add it is said (offcourse) that it's in good shape. What can I expect of such a machine? I really like the clarity in the sound of the receiver I'm using now (an all digital american mastodon, good in performance but no looks at all), can I expect the same of the BM3000-2 or do I need to put lots of work in it like Søren Mexico is doing now with his Beolab 5000? I'm not affraid of re-capping the cross-over in my S75's, but working on an amplifier is scaring me... And what about connecting my CD-player, is that even possible?
BM 3000-2: You will have to repair all amps/receivers of this age and type, I have BM 901, BM 2400, BM 1000, BM 4000, BM 4400 (was worse than the BL 5000) All of these needed at least new electrolytic caps and lamps most of them also some trimmers, non of them came in good working condition, all was bought unseen and unheard on Ebay or in DK. Only amp/receiver I ever bought that worked out of the box was a BM 5000 pizzabox (still going strong), so if you dont want to start repairing go for BMs 5000,5500,6500 in good working condition.. Nearly all BMs can be used with a CD player (AUX or TAPE input)
Søren Mexico: BM 3000-2: You will have to repair all amps/receivers of this age and type, I have BM 901, BM 2400, BM 1000, BM 4000, BM 4400 (was worse than the BL 5000) All of these needed at least new electrolytic caps and lamps most of them also some trimmers, non of them came in good working condition, all was bought unseen and unheard on Ebay or in DK. Only amp/receiver I ever bought that worked out of the box was a BM 5000 pizzabox (still going strong), so if you dont want to start repairing go for BMs 5000,5500,6500 in good working condition.. Nearly all BMs can be used with a CD player (AUX or TAPE input)
It's the woodcase amps I like. I'm not very fond of the looks of those pizza-boxes... Can you, or anyone, suggest me your favorite woodcase receiver that would fit these S75's? Could the BM 3000-2 be on that list?So for repairing them, in most cases it's placing new capacitors and lamps (what is a trimmer?)? No measuring devices are needed? I have no experience or knowledge of electrical engineering, so doing just simple restaurations might be reachable, if it will get more difficult I will get lost...
I'm looking forward starting on the veneer with oil to cover up those paint spots, but that will have to wait untill I find the correct ones... I've found a product based on tung oil instead of linseedoil. Could this be a good replacement for the danish oil? Most colouring oils are for wooden floors and come in very large containers, they seem a bit big for my two speakers...
Untill then, I can't do very much, so I tried to fix the veneer. A piece got pulled off with removing that glued-on cloth on the underside of the speaker, remember? I was able to recover the largest splinter to fill the hole.
I soaked it in Acetone first to get all the remaining glue off, then used some woodglue to glue it back in place. When dry, it needed some sanding, but after that, It looked OK. There are still some deep grooves left though. Do I need to fill them up? with what?I can't show pictures yet of the current situation, because the speakers are completely wrapped in plastic for spraypainting the back.After my chemical paint remover and the heat gun of the pre-owner, the back was in very bad condition. I sanded them with paper 120 and now they are drying in the garage after a spraypaint in black.
From that era of B&O receivers I would have to say the Beomaster 4400 is my favorite. I also have the Beomaster 4000. Both are nice but I like the slanted panel of the BM4400 and it has a lot of power.