How do you feel about B&O right now?

If I look around only one km ore mile I would say: There is a very good dealer just around the corner -> 60 % of the reason I own a TV, loudspeakers, headphones, telephones, music systems, an answering machine from B%O. Looking further I remember seeing B & O stuff here and there (esp. in Danmark of the 60ies) -> 10 % of my motivation and the quality of the products added another 50%. That makes 120 %, but you have to subtract 20 % for the price tags on many products of B&O. In my eyes the local dealers give a good deal of motivation, then the design (not decor!) which saved me from investments I would regret now. E. g. I preferred essence to moment, BeoLab 9 to any modified organ pipes (18 included), BV 8 to plasmas which I couldn't afford, the A1 to the A2 etc.

It would be nice if B&O lost a little bit of it's reputation of a brand for the rich people, not only with B&O Play.

Part of the problem for me is that I cant get what I want from the newer stuff - I don't watch terrestrial TV so my BV8-32 with an Apple TV is fine, same with the BV6-26 and ATV - both don't get used enough to warrant a new TV and all the new ones are massive whereas the 8 and 6 don't dominate a room. 

I listen more and play music - so my BM6500 hooked up to link speakers and BL8000 and BL2 is fine - I can play internet radio, stream airplay, play records and plug my revox into it - none of the new stuff would give me that amount of inputs - ok the Moment has 1 extra input and can play internet radio and stream, however, I tried a Playmaker but the sound whilst good is nowhere near as clear an AE with a separate DAC - also the extra input is not as clear as a direct connection. So, using that as an analogy, rightly or wrongly I would rather stick with what I have that is upgradeable in parts rather than risk changing.

The Play range though is exciting and I bought the A1 which I am really happy about - it's well made, affordable and sounds great. 

Like others, I would have thought the future for B&O is in speakers and the Play range 

 

My local dealer in Edina MN has changed to a different type of store. I liked to go there and plan my next B&O purchases because I could see and hear the merchandise. I have to admit this has lowered my enthusiasm about the brand, fair or not.

I've been a little disappointed recently. By being an "early adopter" of a few of the BeoPlay products, I have missed out on features that were changed/added in later versions. Specifically, the BeoLit 12 and A9 (Bluetooth). AirPlay - I hate it.

Anyway. Love what I own now, but not too enthused to get more.

I was quite excited when the beoplay A1 was thrown on the market, the sound compared to the size and a wonderful design. I love the green colour, because it's not the "applesilver mishmash".

 

I am quite excited with my "Moment". I enjoy it every day (and much more important my better half too).

 

I am quite excited to see the "BV Horizon". Especially since i have heard that the motorized stand solution should come to this tv. I am just afraid, that the "old B&O mistake" is coming too: "We don't put enough sockets into the "cheap television", the sockets have the old standard, the digital cutrain is not in the cheap tv, this function is just in the premium tv's". I hope that the technical standard is "up to date" (futureproof is an ambitious word today), otherwise there will be no NEW customers and B&O needs new ones too.

In my eyes, the only chance, that B&O can survive on the tv-market is to bring out payable tv's, with the general standard of the big companies AND the B&O feeling like their wonderful stands, the integration with the sound systems, and gadgets like the electronic curtain. Because even 3000€ for a 40" tv or 4000€ for a 48" is awful expensive and you need a good reason that especially new customers are going to buy it.

Brigantinus, I would not worry about sockets for the new TV. The V1 was very well equipped socket wise and it did indeed have the electric curtain so it's fair to say that the new Horizon four years later should be well thought out for you.

In just one week we will know ;-)

MM

Paul W:

Porter ladies magazine Moxxey not the fabulous online shop! I hate the A9 it reminds me of the old white Amstrad satellite Astra dishes and a dart board. Love the A1 design though.

The design isn't amazing, but the sound is, so that trumps the design for me.

As I've said in a previous thread, I work across various tech websites and magazine publishers, but we rarely hear from B&Os PR team. I don't think they need us, in their opinion!

My recent experience with a MK2 Essence and BeoLink converter has somewhat restored some faith/interest/passion in the brand.  They have worked pretty flawlessly all spring/summer even with some wireless in the mix.  It was the BeoLink wireless that almost drove me from the brand.  They worked well for a while, but had a habit of failure during parties, or other times when they were expressly required.  Without a way to bring my substantial investment in masterlink into the present / future, I was ready to seriously investigate options like Sonos (maybe keep the Beolab, but ditch the Beosounds and Beovision.  Even this is not without its faults - I'm looking at you Android BeoMusic app.

I think my recent learning is to avoid early adoption of newer software heavy products (or maybe all products given the differences between the MK1 and MK2 Essence). 

I have an A1 inbound.  I was very impressed with this at the store.  Speaking of, I guess I am lucky to have a store near here in the US.  It does help because I don't like to buy products sight unseen.

I think they are between a rock and a hard place, and definitely can see a Saab-like ending,  but am hoping for a Volvo,  I have a new XC90, and it is awesome (but also came equipped with a few software gremlins).  I also have a 2010 Saab that is starting to show its age.

 

Puncher:

The question was,  "how do I feel about B&O now"? The sad answer is I don't feel anything anymore, I think they have lost their "soul"  and products, particularly the play range, are disparate and are released adhoc without any joined up thinking.

It went wrong when they changed their target customer from "mr comfortable middle class" to "mr bling russian/ chinese oligarch" and they haven't ever really recovered. Of course this has been compounded by the digital music explosion and everyone elses flat screen tv being reasonably stylish with network connectivity etc. Masterlink, once their great strength, can pretty much be matched if not bettered by others.

So what now is their USP? The flagship audio product is a shoe box with a chinese tablet for a lid - how much, really???

As an engineer I love the latest speaker technology but even though I understand it it doesnt make me want to drop £7K+ on a pair.

Maybe its not b&o, maybe its me but I do wonder how many more me's have lost the spark and are unlikely to be new product buyers ever again!

Could not have put this better myself. I actually feel other products look a lot better than B&O now- im selling all my gear

355f:

Could not have put this better myself. I actually feel other products look a lot better than B&O now- im selling all my gear

I'm interested to know which other products look better than B&O. This is the one area that I personally feel B&O are untouchable.

I am a very proud B&O equipment owner for many years and see many B&O dealers come and go, sometimes I have a bad experience with one of them.
But in the meantime I have a very fine dealer overhere in the Netherlands, some times it goes wrong but mostly we are on speaking terms.....
I started with the Beovision 4-50 and a few years later I bought the 4-65 a very nice plasma TV (I think still one of the best)

After a few years I want to buy a bigger screen so I was interested in the 4-85 and maked a apointment with my dealer to see this TV! Fabulous and very expensive but very sorry for me and the dealer we could not agree for a nice deal...... so no 4-85 and I looking further and bought a LG 84LM960V LED TV 4K in combination with the Beosystem 3. Was working great and was for a long time very happy with this combination.

A few months ago I bought a Beosystem 4 to replace the Beosystem 3, but I getting some trouble with my Beolabs 5 the souns was not good...... so I contacted my dealer and one of his tech. people came to check everething. It seems that they must take the Beolabs with them and it must be repaired (first time after 7 years).

From one on the other I was looking around for a B&O TV because I was not so happy anymore with the LG, contacted my dealer and drive to his store to see the Avant 85" what a difference in quality with the LG!

The dealer and I make a good deal and I ordered the Avant 85 and I must say I wil never go back to LG anymore what a difference. In combination with the (repaired) Beolab 5 (front L+R) and the Beolab 12-3 (back L+R) 4K player Samsung fabulous.

So I am stil a B&O fanatic and happy with there equipment (not all but a lot).
Maybe it is also a bit of doom thinking anno 2016 that people or not so positive on this moment, I have the trust in B&O that it wil stay a beautiful and exclusive brand.
Just my two cents.

Duels:

I'm interested to know which other products look better than B&O. This is the one area that I personally feel B&O are untouchable.

I agree.

I also love the loewe stuff too

I didn't much care for geneva which won awards. Parrot is so so. Samsung is a bit gauche.

jvdl:

I am a very proud B&O equipment owner for many years and see many B&O dealers come and go, sometimes I have a bad experience with one of them. But in the meantime I have a very fine dealer overhere in the Netherlands, some times it goes wrong but mostly we are on speaking terms..... I started with the Beovision 4-50 and a few years later I bought the 4-65 a very nice plasma TV (I think still one of the best) After a few years I want to buy a bigger screen so I was interested in the 4-85 and maked a apointment with my dealer to see this TV! Fabulous and very expensive but very sorry for me and the dealer we could not agree for a nice deal...... so no 4-85 and I looking further and bought a LG 84LM960V LED TV 4K in combination with the Beosystem 3. Was working great and was for a long time very happy with this combination. A few months ago I bought a Beosystem 4 to replace the Beosystem 3, but I getting some trouble with my Beolabs 5 the souns was not good...... so I contacted my dealer and one of his tech. people came to check everething. It seems that they must take the Beolabs with them and it must be repaired (first time after 7 years). From one on the other I was looking around for a B&O TV because I was not so happy anymore with the LG, contacted my dealer and drive to his store to see the Avant 85" what a difference in quality with the LG! The dealer and I make a good deal and I ordered the Avant 85 and I must say I wil never go back to LG anymore what a difference. In combination with the (repaired) Beolab 5 (front L+R) and the Beolab 12-3 (back L+R) 4K player Samsung fabulous. So I am stil a B&O fanatic and happy with there equipment (not all but a lot). Maybe it is also a bit of doom thinking anno 2016 that people or not so positive on this moment, I have the trust in B&O that it wil stay a beautiful and exclusive brand. Just my two cents.

Hi. Great post.

Do you use your B&O remote with your Samsung 4K blu Ray player ?

@Aussie Michael

I use de B&O remote for the Samsung 4K player, dut doesn't have al functions.
Must wait on newer puc! 

Duels:

355f:

 

Could not have put this better myself. I actually feel other products look a lot better than B&O now- im selling all my gear

 

 

I'm interested to know which other products look better than B&O. This is the one area that I personally feel B&O are untouchable.

 

In my view, any higher end offering from LG looks much more sleek and impressive with a FAR better picture than any current B&O TV, LG oled, slim great design- as an example and all for half the price of B&O.

 

In my block most apartments used to have B&O and yet six years on- NOT ONE, so however much we might think B&O is 'better' the fact is that the buyers have voted with their feet

@355f
I cannot agree with you.

LG Oled is NOT available in the big screens like 84"
As I told in my other post I try also the LG 84LM960V LED 4K for the past 3 years but this cannot meet the quality that I have now again with the B&O Avant 85!
A gorgeous TV where black is black. A uge difference in quality.

When B&O comes with his Oled (also LG) screens then it wil be for the smaller TV's and not for the big 85"

For me is B&O still a beautiful and exclusive brand.....
But we have all different taste's and meanings.

Oh my gosh, big screen TVs - and there's me knowing that 40" is too big.

Anyway, on a positive note, the A1 is getting a lot of love from people out there!

Paul W:

Oh my gosh, big screen TVs - and there's me knowing that 40" is too big.

Anyway, on a positive note, the A1 is getting a lot of love from people out there!

A man with small TV syndrome...

jvdl:

@355f
I cannot agree with you.

LG Oled is NOT available in the big screens like 84"
As I told in my other post I try also the LG 84LM960V LED 4K for the past 3 years but this cannot meet the quality that I have now again with the B&O Avant 85!
A gorgeous TV where black is black. A uge difference in quality.

When B&O comes with his Oled (also LG) screens then it wil be for the smaller TV's and not for the big 85"

For me is B&O still a beautiful and exclusive brand.....
But we have all different taste's and meanings.

 

With the greatest respect you owned an LED LGTV  There is not a person on gods earth that wil maintain the picture is better on ANY led compared to OLED.

That's why in my block of 200 not ONE person buys B&O anymore- they have realised the expansive truth that B&O just is not worh it anymore

I Strongly Believe what you're saying but what other brand is nicer than B&O? I know with the new tech and all that, they've lost their Mojo, which I still think they can do better, but to compare B&O to other Stuff, I still come back to Bang and Olufsen. Because other Brands are trying to copy them but they can't compete. They've really let down their Superior Clients and chasing penny's and cents but in all, nobody else close to Bang and Olufsen in terms of style and Beauty.

355f:

With the greatest respect you owned an LED LGTV  There is not a person on gods earth that wil maintain the picture is better on ANY led compared to OLED.

That's why in my block of 200 not ONE person buys B&O anymore- they have realised the expansive truth that B&O just is not worh it anymore

The Oled is great but only in the small sizes.... did you see a TV in 85" in a better quality then the Avant 85?
If yes wich one, and do you see it your self?

I don't buy B&O for someone else but for myself.

Everyone having his choice to buy B&O or not...... live is so easy.

 

355f:

With the greatest respect you owned an LED LGTV There is not a person on gods earth that wil maintain the picture is better on ANY led compared to OLED.

That's why in my block of 200 not ONE person buys B&O anymore- they have realised the expansive truth that B&O just is not worh it anymore

TL; DR – B&O's future TV offerings have a great deal to do with me staying with the brand.

---

LG *LED* TVs suck, unless you go through the trouble of calibrating them professionally & correctly. Even then, they may "suck", because of the panel tech. Samsung is way ahead in LCD LED panels, which for example BV11 uses.

One of BeoVisions' main selling points – and the reason why I am so happy with the picture of my BV11 (and many BVs before it) – is the human eye & their viewing panel, and how – because of this approach – the picture looks natural and engaging straight out of the box.

Their proprietary picture processing technologies are great: for example how their processing keeps the picture at a constant quality level in any lighting conditions (day, night, sunshine, shade, 1 lamp on, 10 lamps on) and with any source.

Would BVs stand out in a shop with Samsungs, Sonys and LGs, set to *their* standard settings, which are made to impress – artificially and overblowing everything – just to stand out in a shop environment? No. I'm still often amazed at what kind of picture many people look at with their TVs at *home*, after purchase.

LG OLED, out of the box, is not natural either. But it is capable of producing a picture LED TVs simply cannot produce.

B&O/LG OLED: if they follow B&O's ideology in picture reproduction, it will be impressive. And I expect it to be, with a price no more than double the new Loewe OLED.

If the design does not please me, I may go with BV14. Or I might, at that point, switch brands, opt for professional calibration, and rethink my entire setup & AV future. The day BeoVision (as a center piece & hub) leaves my house, I may give up on B&O.

For me, their future TV portfolio is important.

Aussie Michael:

I agree.

I also love the loewe stuff too

I didn't much care for geneva which won awards. Parrot is so so. Samsung is a bit gauche.

Yup. Got a Loewe individual to which is great.

vikinger:

The (lack of) enthusiasm of long term Beoworlders, or their absence altogether, tells you all you need to know.

Graham

I'm not sure if I qualify as one of Graham's 'long term Beoworlders' but I too am conscious of a number of older members who seem to have disappeared in recent months.

I don't post much now, principally because my interest lies in older kit rather than current products. Apart from a pair of H6s I have bought no new or current products for many years largely because Bang and Olufsen seem to me to have lost their way a little, both in terms of the quality of the product and in the lack of design coherence across the range.

There are still examples of outstanding industrial design; from both ends of the price spectrum - the Beolab 90s and the A1, for example -but there is no clear visual brand identity. Added to that, there seems to be an almost unforgivable failure to bring products to market fully-sorted without major and ongoing problems, mostly in the software.

One of my principal reasons for returning to the brand in the early 1990s was because I wanted to get away from the complexities of hi-fi separates that needed constant tuning and to be able to just listen to the music. B&O provided that with the added bonus of outstanding and original styling. It seems that if I buy current, software-dependent B&O products I would be returning to that complex world where I wouldn't be sure if the thing was going to work reliably.

Jensen and Lewis created a body of work readily identifiable as theirs. I'm not sure that clarity exists today. The 90s are staggeringly good but as yet the capabilities designed into the system are incomplete and appear very complex for the user to install. The Beolab 5 remains an outstanding and (almost) affordable loudspeaker and the Beolab 18s are a reasonably successful development of David Lewis's beautiful original. The A1 is very tempting as a travel companion and I will almost certainly buy one when it's available in black. But that's it. But all 4 are designed by different designers with no obvious visual link or design identity. Design wise, they are anonymous.

Like AdamS, my music collection is mostly on vinyl or CD. Music for me is not aural wallpaper. Ease and convenience are not as important as sound quality and a sense of being involved directly in the process of playing and listening to recorded music. I have little interest in music stored digitally. The growth in interest in vinyl, especially in the production of all-analogue, well-mastered reissues of classic material from the 50s, 60s and 70s has rejuvenated my interest in records to the point where I am seriously thinking of asking Frede Kristensen to source and renovate a Beolab 5000 system for me and selling the rest of my kit.

Which brings me back to the debate on where the Company is going. The 5000 was perhaps the original example of integration with all the elements of the system designed to work together and arguably created something that was better than the sum of its parts. The complete opposite is now the case. There is nothing in the current range that will allow the Beolab 90s to perform to their best. The same could be said for the Beolab 5s. My CD6500 which is 25 years old is probably better equipped (with its digital 'out') to utilise the capabilities of the BL5s than just about everything in the current line up.

As for comparisons with SAAB made by Graham and others, I am on my fifth and sixth SAAB! There are similarities between running such cars and using old B&O equipment. I have sought out enthusiasts/specialists who know the products inside out and can ensure they continue to work well. There are equivalent SAAB enthusiasts' websites to Beoworld. It's not the cheapest option but then I feel I am enjoying products from a time when these companies were distinctive and original, with a clear identity and an almost idiosyncratic and consequently appealing approach. I think B&O have moved away from that. It may be understandable given the changes in demand from the public but for me it's rather sad.

Cleve

Some lovely points there Cleve!

I agree Beosystems 5000/5500/6500 design wise were incredibly ahead of their time as was the Ouverture.

BeoPlay has established instead as a smartphone, young bluetooth kind of company so maybe BANG&OLUFSEN can stay firmly in its traditional routes for the older client and surely a CD based system with Bluetooth could be introduced? After seeing that the majority of CDs are cheaper to buy on Amazon than a MP4 download on iTunes, I can see why the increased popularity. (There's a few classic albums that i'm after from the SOS Band, Change and a few Break Beat/old skool hip hop artists and I'm going for the CD route and then i'll rip them myself). 

Maybe BANG&OLUFSEN's future does lie in combining traditional physical formats along with Bluetooth whilst leaving the Bluetooth speakers etc to the PLAY generation. I love the MP4 route for myself but, I can totally appreciate why many love the physical formats now!

Some lovely points there Cleve!

I agree Beosystems 5000/5500/6500 design wise were incredibly ahead of their time as was the Ouverture.

BeoPlay has established instead as a smartphone, young bluetooth kind of company so maybe BANG&OLUFSEN can stay firmly in its traditional routes for the older client and surely a CD based system with Bluetooth could be introduced? After seeing that the majority of CDs are cheaper to buy on Amazon than a MP4 download on iTunes, I can see why the increased popularity. (There's a few classic albums that i'm after from the SOS Band, Change and a few Break Beat/old skool hip hop artists and I'm going for the CD route and then i'll rip them myself). 

Maybe BANG&OLUFSEN's future does lie in combining traditional physical formats along with Bluetooth whilst leaving the Bluetooth speakers etc to the PLAY generation. I love the MP4 route for myself but, I can totally appreciate why many love the physical formats now!

Generally, I have been happy with B&O since my first purchase in 1986. Yes, the products throughout the ages have been highly differential as one purchases technically limited products (Century), and then progressively upgrades through the eco-system to the flagship products. 

Many of these products are not always technical tour de forces and perhaps lack some of the latest technological fashions. However, as an ecosystem, the products I still believe are the best out there when combined in a B&O way. This ranges from interchangeability of products with the same remote control language, cables and operating systems to a valued trade-back pathway.  

In more recent times, criticism has been levelled on price and targeting the rich oligarchs. Well I firmly believe that our respective governments, central bankers et al have colluded to rob the middle class (MC) specifically of their wealth. B&O was always expensive and pushing the price boundaries throughout their history but today, that decision to buy has been severely curtailed an exponential increase in what were once MC easy-come, easy-go staples of pleasant suburban housing and good (free and/or inexpensive) education, reasonable taxation and to a limited extent health and old-age care costs (MC inflation and Rich/Poor deflation).

Thus, it does seem that B&O are now selling to the rich oligarchs but I see it as the MC squeezed out of that segment as they worry about trying to maintain their comfortable lot in life and the prospect that the rug could be pulled from underneath them at any time followed by their crushing debt toppling on to of them and that Tarquin and Gemima will then have to go and slum-it in a state school. Forbid. 

I think B&O can be fairly criticised for the speed at which they evolve. Various CEO’s producing products of coloured aluminium, telephone trinkets and coasters were all a dead-end. As is product life-cycle. I think the Play brand is good and welcome source of cash but only a Band-Aid. One can only produce so much Bluetooth loudspeakers and headphones before eventually, even the premium market segment will dry-up as we race to the bottom.  

Where I do see the most incompetence in B&O is in their marketing. Very little do I see of their products in any media other than product release notes (they all say the same thing, with the same photos), They insist in releasing what is arguably the best loudspeaker currently on the market bar none, yet there is negotiable critique in the mainstream hi-fi press? Why? Even more surprising (and cash for R&D may be that tight), there should have been at least one trickle-down product ready to at the same time or even before the 90’s. If they are going to demonstrate a halo product, at least give some hope to us hifi dinosaurs that they can buy-into the lower part of the dream if not full-cream Beolab 90. B&O should be on the editors desk getting the USP and quality through (esp all of their loudspeakers) and even buy a bit of paper or web space. 

The same is said of their USP technology. Very little is disseminated to the public and many Dealers are ambivalent of selling the integrated dream. Instead, Dealers have limited knowledge of the one brand they actually sell (I actually told a shop how to setup a newly installed demo pair of BL90’s in narrow mode before I even purchased a pair!!). B&O still want single brand shops, with capital-wasting re-fits.

I know some shops have to make a decision between refit and stocking the 90’s? How can they sell something they cant show/demonstrate? Us customers I think, couldn’t give two monkeys of the turning wall. We want keen prices, affordable payment options, good trade-in and at least some recognition we had a 99% chance of buying elsewhere from 99% of the other brands out there. Hell, I could even buy from a shop that stocked Naim, B&W, Meridian etc…without feeling dirty. 

B&O, and their Dealers need to raise the service they offer pre and post-sale and lower the service costs when things go wrong after warranty. 

So where is the future? Well I think it is going to be very tough for B&O to survive. The trends of the last 5 years in purchasing power have left B&O cornered. They can’t build cheap and compete, they can’t build dear and survive with their current business model.  

My plan would be:- 

·     Start getting real with their marketing. Get out of the 70’s. Try harder. Try better. Keep asking questions of message penetration. Fire current marketing team and put one in which can veto B&O's traditional stuffiness.

·     Start getting real with their pre and post purchase service.

·     Re-energise the Dealers. Shops are dead with the one-brand strategy. Give them hope and a chance to make a decent living.

·     New TVs to be B&O cases with 3^rd Party carcass. Added value is an integration module. Keep your hand in with minimum effort and minimum expense. Keep abreast of screen technology. Everything else is their competence.

·     Focus on broad range of loudspeakers. They need a good trickle-down programme of new gen products better than the competition. B&O’s traditional onmi-sound does not sell to the purist. Sell to the purist. They have cash to burn on music hi-fi. BL90 (switchable sound) is the start I hope of catering to mainstream as well as traditional B&O customers.

·     Play is good but I suspect not long-term sustainable.

·     They need to re-establish a common design language for each high, mid, low-end group products. Design language is currently a mess.

·     They have got to get some serious music player/renderer out there. Show their competence.

·     Drastically downsize their staff to minimum. Behave like Linn, Meridian or B&W and survive. This segment will never get better and joining the race to the bottom will end in failure ultimately. Downsize manufacturing to core (Alu Parts) business. Assemble elsewhere and dig-in to a credible niche model.

 

2-cents worth.

 

 

Great, Mr10! Thank you for a thought provoking post!

"Drastically downsize their staff to minimum. Behave like Linn, Meridian or B&W and survive."

 

More than 2000 employees vs 160 - interesting definition of "survive".

I truly disagree with downsizing staff. These are humans that we are talking about plus it's terrible for the rest of the staff and morale and job security. Downing is heartless and along with greed is what has got this world into the mea that it is in today. In reality, I say cut the pay of these fat, fat cat CEOs and give decent salaries to the staff that really make the difference. Reminds me of Apple were those old heavily overweight bosses go on stage at the launch conventions whilst in all fairness they'd be out of work if it was not for those modern day slaves in China producing the products and working 7 days a week with cancer causing chemicals including benzine. All business in 2016 should have strong ethics and if it doesn't, then quite frankly, they do not deserve to stay in business.

I truly disagree with downsizing staff. These are humans that we are talking about plus it's terrible for the rest of the staff and morale and job security. Downing is heartless and along with greed is what has got this world into the mea that it is in today. In reality, I say cut the pay of these fat, fat cat CEOs and give decent salaries to the staff that really make the difference. Reminds me of Apple were those old heavily overweight bosses go on stage at the launch conventions whilst in all fairness they'd be out of work if it was not for those modern day slaves in China producing the products and working 7 days a week with cancer causing chemicals including benzine. All business in 2016 should have strong ethics and if it doesn't, then quite frankly, they do not deserve to stay in business.

I do not agree with you Mr !0%. Purists will NEVER buy BANG&OLUFSEN. They are seen as a lifestyle brand. I've spent my life working in radio & media and B&O is simply laughed at. It's not for professional use or as I mentioned purist - they want Meridian, Linn, Rega etc. It's not easy to change a purists perception on things!

I personally believe that PLAY IS were the market is. It's the smartphone generation now and has been for the last seven years or so and it will continue for a lot longer. Its very easy to get blind from reality with this forum and the B&O fans on it but the reality just like the reality 5 years ago is there is not a market for the traditional BANG&OLUFSEN brand. It's always been the older person and sadly, these are a dying breed. Personally, it's terribly wrong to thing that a PLAY customer will buy into BANG&OLUFSEN. It's chalk and cheese - a bit like thinking a MINI driver will buy a BMW 5 series or 7 series in a few years time.

Paul W:

I truly disagree with downsizing staff.....................All business in 2016 should have strong ethics and if it doesn't, then quite frankly, they do not deserve to stay in business.

 

Well that squares a circle then!

Paul W:

I personally believe that PLAY IS were the market is. It's the smartphone generation now and has been for the last seven years or so and it will continue for a lot longer. Its very easy to get blind from reality with this forum and the B&O fans on it but the reality just like the reality 5 years ago is there is not a market for the traditional BANG&OLUFSEN brand. It's always been the older person and sadly, these are a dying breed. Personally, it's terribly wrong to thing that a PLAY customer will buy into BANG&OLUFSEN. It's chalk and cheese - a bit like thinking a MINI driver will buy a BMW 5 series or 7 series in a few years time.

I believe you are correct with Play for now. However, I see this as a race to the bottom which B&O cannot long-term compete with. I agree that Play is also a none cross-over product. Traditionalist will buy some Play, but newcomers I see buying very little full-blown B&O. Disposable income thing.

With the Purist aspect, this is where they have to change. As mentioned elsewhere SAAB refused to change and made re-engineering choices on common platforms for the sake of it. B&O need to stop developing their own way of doing things, swallow some pride and work to be the best of the standards that are out there. Once motoring Purists refused to buy Japanese cars. I sure with the right products, people will change. 

Paul W:

I do not agree with you Mr !0%. Purists will NEVER buy BANG&OLUFSEN. They are seen as a lifestyle brand. I've spent my life working in radio & media and B&O is simply laughed at. It's not for professional use or as I mentioned purist - they want Meridian, Linn, Rega etc. It's not easy to change a purists perception on things!

I personally believe that PLAY IS were the market is. It's the smartphone generation now and has been for the last seven years or so and it will continue for a lot longer. Its very easy to get blind from reality with this forum and the B&O fans on it but the reality just like the reality 5 years ago is there is not a market for the traditional BANG&OLUFSEN brand. It's always been the older person and sadly, these are a dying breed. Personally, it's terribly wrong to thing that a PLAY customer will buy into BANG&OLUFSEN. It's chalk and cheese - a bit like thinking a MINI driver will buy a BMW 5 series or 7 series in a few years time.

Why would a purist not purchase B&O?

What do you think the disconnect is?

I've heard everything in the range.. Are there some Wilson Audio that sound better? Sure, but not at anywhere near the money.

I don't see meridian as a 'purist' brand ...Linn.. Maybe.

I also think that B&O core always survives.

In fact, I think the luxury purchasers are purchasing more now than ever.

Range rovers are a dime a dozen now..

The rich get richer and spend more on luxury items.. I truly think B&O is a victim of poor or NO advertising.

I do agree that the Play brand is an interesting part of the company.

I see it as a gateway and do think it makes people want more. Especially with network link.

The ability to connect the core and Play products seamlessly is a nice tease.

The new television will be interesting to see and I'm hopeful that it opens new horizons for folks.

I am a loyalist no doubt .. It is an expendable income argument for sure.

Does the A1 buyer purchase an Avant 75?? Probably not.. But an A9 purchaser?? Maybe they do?

My first B&O purchase was a Beocenter 2500 when I was in college.

It was like a first glimpse. Maybe for some folks that's what PLAY does??

I hope both thrive!!!

Hi Cleve.

Another Long term SAAB and B&O enthusiast here, and there are parallels in so many ways.

Graham

We had a Saad 9000 Griffin in green that is former owner chipped.  It looked like a grandfather clock but went like a rocket. 

 

We were in a B&O store today in Miami, and it looked incredibly bare. Sure it had some Beolab 90's which were incredible, but there was no Beosound device that could drive them. The owner put A USB pen with some lossless music in the back of an Avant.

 

Everything else was just rehashed David Lewis designs.  And I guess this is where there image is starting to fade a little, even to me. 

 

Where are the iconic new designs? What's in the pipeline will hopefully kick-start some more interest, but again they are still David Lewis in essence. 

Mr 10Percent:

My plan would be:- 

·     Start getting real with their marketing. Get out of the 70’s. Try harder. Try better. Keep asking questions of message penetration. Fire current marketing team and put one in which can veto B&O's traditional stuffiness.

That is where Tue's plan also began and why he moved the marketing function from Struer to Copenhagen.

The results of which (loss of strong design authority; multiple divergent themes; etc) lead to some of the complaints in this thread

I agree with a big part on Mr 10 percents view but two things would be fatal for B&O:

- outsourcing even more
- reducing staff

That's the WORST thing you can do and that's the only thing the dumb CEOs and managers nowadays can do and as they all prove: It does NOT work, especially in the long term.

Do you really think the quality would increase after firing more stuff and outsourcing?

B&O needs to hire better designers, they need to start marketing and they strongly need to rebuild quality! When I see misspelling e.g. on the german website of a so called luxury brand, it is simply embarassing for the company!

Swatch group produces even the very cheap Swatch watches in Switzerland! So, it is possible, but B&O does seem to hire the absolute wrong managers, CEOs etc.!

If I can convince my wife to move to Denmark I would do the job and B&O will survive. :-)

Hi Lee and others,

I am only interested in vintage B&O products.

The time when you could get real bargains on defective items in perfect cosmetic condition is over, I feel. 

Even tatty items from the tip seem to fetch silly prices these days. Even local ads show preposterous prices. Sheer greed?

I haven't bought anything B&O for some time, unfortunately