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Beolab 20 unleashes full armageddon!

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jc
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jc Posted: Wed, Oct 19 2016 6:30 AM

So every morning my Beosound 3000 is programmed to play some easy classical music in the living room at 6:45am. But this morning that didn't happen...

Instead, I woke up to a noise I never heard before. It was - litterally - like the whole US Army invaded my living room with tanks and Apaches. So I rushed down the stairs to see what the heck was happening (did the new fridge explode? Was the house collapsing? Did the dog go ballistic?!), to find out the left of my two BL20's was producing some kind of white noise/static sound (rythmic, though) at a volume that on a scale of 1 to 100 would come in at 200+...

I think (!) the other BL20 did not do this and was playing easy classical music at the programmed 32 level, because the sound seemed to come from the left, but in all honesty: I couldn't even hear the other BL20.

After turning off the system and turning it on again, it's playing lovely like nothing ever happened...

Of course I'll call my dealer straight away this morning (the BL20 is only about 6 months old), but I'm really curious if someone else has ever experienced this? Seems like some kind of fault in the electrical circuit?

Best regards,

(a now almost deaf) Joeri

Emil Jensen
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Hallo jc,

Had this problem as well with one of my Beolab 20, very random failure, cannot be produced and can happen month in between.

I got a spare part change on site and never heard the problem Again.

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Sal
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Sal replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 7:03 AM

II owned my speakers for over a year without issue, and one evening, that awful loud electronic bassy / glitchy sonic digital static at an absurdly high volume began playing when I turned on my Essence. They did it for two or three power cycles, and then the next day, all was well. Then out of the blue after a few days, the same. Then after a few weeks, and then randomly... I couldn't tell if it is one or both speakers. Techs came to my home and ran diagnostics and found no issues, and finally after it happened again (I was determined to get it on video, I got a bit of it on video, but not the full effect), a Tech replaced something called a power or sound module, for both speakers, and the issue hasn't happened. The warranty repair was done recently and the speakers have been fine since, but each time I turn on the Essence, I prepare to hear the worst! LOL It's nerve racking! 

I wonder if we all had similar serial numbers / same run of speakers / PCBs. My dealer said he hadn't heard of this issue at all. It is so random and not reproducible / repeatable.

 

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 7:30 AM

Wired or wirelessly connected? Could well be something in the DSP module used for the crossovers and driver tailoring, could be something in an amp module, but I'd put money on the DSP brains.

Jeff

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Sal
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Sal replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 7:59 AM

My behavior occurred wired, as they were always wired to the Essence.

jc
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jc replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 8:13 AM

Yes, mine are wired to the BS3000 as well...

Emil Jensen
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Mine was wired with RCA to a MARANTZ reciever.

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Jeff replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 2:21 PM

Interesting, all wired. I don't know the design of the modules in a BL20, but it's probably the same module/board, and since the thing has DSP and if I recall correctly A/D converters in it to digitize the PL inputs, functionally I'd bet either of those two functions. But I don't' know how they're implemented in hardware, but it sure sounds like a hardware issue or a firmware glitch. They are new enough B&O should definitely handle it for y'all, and please let us know what the solution is, I'm quite curious!

Jeff

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Sal
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Sal replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 4:49 PM

Jeff, when my issues began occurring, one of the diagnostic steps we did was to connect them via WISA and see if I could reproduce the problem. Unfortunately, the problem was so random, it never happened the few times I connected them via WISA to my BV11. We also attempted to use different outlets in my house, different surge protectors, etc. Completely random, so I wouldn't say that it wouldn't have happened via WISA as well perhaps it would have, but never did.

My experience is that 95% of the time it happened, it happened when the speakers initially turned on to play sound. Only a couple of times, did they turn on, begin to play music normally, and then after about a second, decide to bombard me with a horrifically loud digital mess of sound.

I know for a fact that boards were replaced in both of my speakers since I couldn't determine whether it was one or both which made the sounds (it was so loud). As I mentioned before the engineer termed the PCBs either a "sound module" or "power module." Knock on wood, they've not done it since that repair, though. Funny, though, when the speakers were returned to me, one speaker's woofer wasn't firing at all. Turned out another tech visit found that the connector to the woofer had come loose (likely during transport), so all that was left was to plug it in again. *phew*.

At a point I was thinking I had lemons for speakers. The pessimist in me is wondering whether the "issue" is still there in the hardware, only to rear its ugly head after the warranty period is over. That is to say: were the replacement boards the same as the faulty ones, only to misbehave after a certain amount of time due to poor design or something else. Ugh.

Can other owners of BL20s on BeoWorld share any peculiar behavior of their speakers? Later this afternoon, I'll attempt to post a link to the short clip I was finally able to take of the behavior, though it isn't representative of the majority of what happened. I'll explain in the post.

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Jeff replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 5:23 PM

Interesting Sal, thanks for the further info! I know what you mean about worrying that this will recur. I've seen it where it was random boards, and where it was due to either a common design fault or common problem with the production process, where all boards from a certain time frame are potentially bad, and the real fix is to swap out every board with replacements that are known to be different and good. How a commercial company handles this is probably to replace the ones that fail under warranty, maybe with a potentially bad board, and hope for the best, until the unit is out of warranty. Depends on the company and how much they care about customer retention I guess. I worked primarily in the military world, where if there was a problem you absolutely had to fix every single system in the inventory. We actually did warranty our products for a prearranged period of time. Which at times led to going out and repairing a huge number of things that were already out in service or in storage depots!

Jeff

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Michael
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Michael replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 6:05 PM
Seems strange that a connector for a woofer just came loose in transport. I bet they very sloppy and forgot to connect it properly.

This issue is not at all very nice to hear about (the Armageddon). I've had this happen to my H8 headphones a few times. I believe that when the DSP fails it starts to send digital raw data as sound. It sounds horrible. I've heard this on other manufacturers receivers too, for example when I've removed toslink input by Pulling the cable. Even on my mac in VLC when decoding Dolby. I guess the Bl20 then play back at full volume. Not very good for the speaker at all. Or for your ears. I hope they have addressed this or are aware of how and what is wrong. I believe it is as I described. And since the amps are always at 100% they will do everything to play L O U D Whistle

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Sal replied on Wed, Oct 19 2016 6:17 PM

Michael:
Seems strange that a connector for a woofer just came loose in transport. I bet they very sloppy and forgot to connect it properly.

My suspicion as well, though I didn't make a deal out of it since they travel almost an hour to my house to address that particular issue.

Michael:
I believe that when the DSP fails it starts to send digital raw data as sound. It sounds horrible.

This is probably the best description of the sound that I've heard: "digital raw data." I used adjectives like "glitchy" or Trent Reznor's digital distortion in some of Nine Inch Nail's music, but at 100% volume.

Michael:
Not very good for the speaker at all. Or for your ears.

My dealer assured me that the sound isn't hurting the speakers -- since the speaker is monitoring itself,  there is circuitry that cuts off signals, etc. if things get hairy. Hope that is the case. I hope engineers at B&O are paying attention.

 

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elephant replied on Thu, Oct 20 2016 12:23 PM
Wow.

I had this happen once and only once (cross fingers).

We had a dinner party and I was Airplaying to the Essence wired to the BL20s.

I urged my son's partner to use her iPhone to play her music and when she did the system went beset as others have aptly described.

I tried taking control via my IPhone and failed so I ran to try to kill power to the Essence which had no effect by which time the left channel BL20 (don't know about the RGS as I had no line of sight) had gone to orange alert. So I then killed power to the BL20s.

After the dinner guests had calmed down and I had made sure all Airplays were disabled we powered everything up and verified that the BL20s were still playable.

I had thought of possibly posting the symptoms here -- but since I thought it was some weird Airplay scenario where two iPhones were competing for control of the system - or where one had taken over but doubled up the volume in some weird way.

This thread is actually a relief: (1) know symptom (2) known solution.

Do I accept it as a one off ? Or do recreate the situation in 2 weeks timetable the next family event Smile ? Or do I ask the dealer to fix it now ?

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Sal
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Sal replied on Thu, Oct 20 2016 4:01 PM

elephant:
We had a dinner party and I was Airplaying to the Essence wired to the BL20s.

One of the times this happened we had extended family over. They were visiting for a few days, and I had used the speakers during the beginning of their stay without issue. One evening, I turned on the speakers and nearly caused everyone in the living room to have a heart attack, with the loud din from the speakers. I know what you mean!

elephant:
I tried taking control via my IPhone and failed so I ran to try to kill power to the Essence which had no effect by which time the left channel BL20 (don't know about the RGS as I had no line of sight) had gone to orange alert. So I then killed power to the BL20s.

I'm glad elephant mentioned this, as it is a key poing which I don't believe has been made yet: when this happens, the speaker LEDs flash orange quickly, which the manual states as "An error has occurred. Disconnect the speaker from the mains and reconnect it again. If the problem persists, contact your Bang & Olufsen dealer.". Killing the power is the only way to stop the sound, thankfully it is in line with the manual too! LOL

elephant:
Do I accept it as a one off ? Or do recreate the situation in 2 weeks timetable the next family event Smile ? Or do I ask the dealer to fix it now ?

Elephant it has happened to you only once. See if it happens again (crossing my fingers for you that it doesn't happen again).

That being said, I do find it particularly interesting that a handful of BL20 owners are experiencing or have experienced this issue. It can't be by chance, right? I mean, B&O do testing like no one's business, this HAS to have been either known, or, if it wasn't sorted out in testing, perhaps there was a bad run of boards that made it into a specific run of speakers. I'd love to find out from B&O what they think.

I showed my wife this thread, and she smiled and said: "Aren't you glad we didn't have the BL90s... Just imagine if that sound happened with them!"

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This reminds me. I heard this in my dealers a good few months ago. Set up was avant 75 and lab20s - not sure if wired or wisa - from memory we were playing with the multi room using the beomusic app and it happening when joining the avant to what was already playing from the beosound35. The guys were alarmed to say the least and said they would report it, but I never followed up and asked anything further - as I don't have either avant or lab20s.

If I drop in anytime soon I will ask.
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Razlaw replied on Thu, Oct 20 2016 6:24 PM
Now I am scared to listen to my 20s LOL. Just curious, are the 20s where jt has happened both first generation without the illuminated logo, second generation with the illuminated logo, both?

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elephant replied on Thu, Oct 20 2016 6:28 PM

Mine are first generation - I was assured by a notable expert (Geoff Martin to be precise) that there was no sonic difference between the generations.

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Thu, Oct 20 2016 6:33 PM
I have also always understood that there is no difference between the two except for the logo. But if it has only been noticed to occur in first generation 20s, is that because there maybe some slight hardware difference, or just because there are a lot more first generation 20s in use by Beoworlders?

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Sal replied on Thu, Oct 20 2016 6:34 PM

Mine are second gen (lit logo), I was also informed that the only difference between the two is the lit logo.

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Sal:

Mine are second gen (lit logo), I was also informed that the only difference between the two is the lit logo.

Geoff just said that there was no sonic difference; so the internals could have been changed somehow without altering the sound of the speaker

Anyway... very strange to read that the speakers went bezerk..

Karel.

jc
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jc replied on Fri, Oct 21 2016 11:12 AM

Mine are second gen (with the lit logo) as well.

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Mine was 2nd generation as well.

I was able to locate which one of mine went beserk but more luck then anything as the sound is so high that it is impossible to think about anything else then turn the power off.

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Florian replied on Sat, Oct 22 2016 2:51 PM

I had the same issue a year ago (with the MK2).

I wanted to play a song via Airplay on the Essence (the speakers are WISA connected to a BeoLab Transmitter). And then instead of my song, I heard the very very loud digital raw sound.

I had to unplug the speakers to stop the noise.

I was afraid of playing anything for few weeks. But it never happened again!

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jc replied on Sat, Oct 22 2016 5:14 PM

I think I know what it is. A friend of mine suggested it was 'pink noise', which is a sound covering all frequencies which dealers can use to test the speakers. If you search for 'pink noise' on Youtube, you'll find some streams with it. Like this one: Pink Noise

It sounds exacly as my BL20 did, except for a lower volume level ;-).

So it seems the speaker decided to produce a testing sound, instead of the music. Some kind of electrical glitch, probably?

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Michael replied on Sun, Oct 23 2016 1:30 AM
jc:

I think I know what it is. A friend of mine suggested it was 'pink noise', which is a sound covering all frequencies which dealers can use to test the speakers. If you search for 'pink noise' on Youtube, you'll find some streams with it. Like this one: Pink Noise

It sounds exacly as my BL20 did, except for a lower volume level ;-).

So it seems the speaker decided to produce a testing sound, instead of the music. Some kind of electrical glitch, probably?

It is a similar noise actually but I believe the unit just started outputting noise that wasn't properly decoded. Buggy software but of course totally unacceptable for a speaker. Imagine if it was a a kitchen appliance that would just turn on when you are away at full heat. I don't even want to think about it.

Or a Beolab 20 going bezerk while at work or at vacation. Your pets would be deaf after. Or your kids...

I don't think it is good for the speakers either - even if they are designed to turn off when to loud it still causes huge stress on the speakers - and since they obviously are failing when producing the noise - who can assure the overload failsafe even works then?

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Michael replied on Sun, Oct 23 2016 1:35 AM
Sal:

My suspicion as well, though I didn't make a deal out of it since they travel almost an hour to my house to address that particular issue.

This is probably the best description of the sound that I've heard: "digital raw data." I used adjectives like "glitchy" or Trent Reznor's digital distortion in some of Nine Inch Nail's music, but at 100% volume.

My dealer assured me that the sound isn't hurting the speakers -- since the speaker is monitoring itself, there is circuitry that cuts off signals, etc. if things get hairy. Hope that is the case. I hope engineers at B&O are paying attention.

Yep you're probably right and yep nice they fixed it anyway. I like the digital raw description too but I would like to give a better example too. I know the sound but can't really tell what it's called. It's not pink noise but wrongly decoded audio data.

Think about it like a camera taking a picture of complete darkness. It's still a picture filled with data. Every pixel. And it will differ a lot. Increase brightness and it will show. Not the best way to describe it but anyway :)

And as I just replied in my previous reply to the thread. I would worry about my speakers hardware after a failure like this. I don't think they are designed to play at those levels for long. And I know for a fact tweeters get blown on at least bl9 even though it has safety features too.

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Sal replied on Sun, Oct 23 2016 4:55 AM

Michael:
I would worry about my speakers hardware after a failure like this. I don't think they are designed to play at those levels for long. And I know for a fact tweeters get blown on at least bl9 even though it has safety features too.

Can they test whether the speakers have been damaged by this behavior? Or how long would this have to happen for damage to occur? I never allowed my speakers to play this noice when it occurred for more than a second at the most before pulling the plug. It was way too loud, and I freaked out.

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Razlaw replied on Sat, Dec 10 2016 7:03 PM

It happened to me today with my 20s.

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Sal replied on Sun, Dec 11 2016 12:04 AM

Oh NO!!!! Can you describe the situation? Have you contacted your dealer / service person?

*knock on wood* it hasn't happened to me since the boards were replaced, but every time I turn the 20s on, my heart skips a beat expecting the harsh sounds again.

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Razlaw replied on Sun, Dec 11 2016 1:54 AM
I had been watching TV, pressed the red button on the Beo 4 and shut the system off. A few seconds later I decided to listen to a CD and pressed the CD button. And the noise occurred.

Have not mentioned it to my dealer.

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Michael replied on Sun, Dec 11 2016 11:41 AM
I'm not replacing my 9s before B&O sorts this out. Unacceptable. Think of animals, kids etc that might have to stand the noice if the speakers do this suddenly. Scary.

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TWG replied on Sun, Dec 11 2016 1:24 PM

Seems that the Beolab 20 are great for burglar prevention. IF somebody tries to burgle your home and the Beolab 20 starts their noisy show you'll just find the burglar lying on your floor, died by a hear attack. Big Smile

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Sal replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 1:02 AM

I'm curious, if anyone from B&O is reading this, Geoff? Can anyone comment, this has happened to, from what it seems, quite a few BL20 owners, and seems to happen out of the blue. If this is a design fault in the speakers, it should be sorted and taken care of for all owners regardless of the warranty situation. It has happened to enough owners that perhaps something slipped through the Quality Controls.

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Razlaw replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 3:41 AM
I contacted me dealer today about it. He advised me to call B and O and gave me a phone number.

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dasun replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 6:18 AM

This has happened with my Beolab 20s too a few times. It seems to be the right speaker. I thought it might have been a bad wireless connection. Unfortunately, I cannot trigger this response - so it's almost impossible to find a problem solution with my dealer. It's a loud digital noise including some clicking sounds. Our little dog almost went crazy, he was so scared, he didn't know what to do.

Has anyone found a solution yet? Or at least a reason for those sounds?

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dasun replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 6:28 AM

btw: my Beolab 20s are connected wirelessly to the transmitter, which is connected to a Beosystem 4. The sound occurs not necessarily in the beginning, but sometimes also in the middle of listening to something. Interestingly, it is only the right speaker (so far).

dasun:

This has happened with my Beolab 20s too a few times. It seems to be the right speaker. I thought it might have been a bad wireless connection. Unfortunately, I cannot trigger this response - so it's almost impossible to find a problem solution with my dealer. It's a loud digital noise including some clicking sounds. Our little dog almost went crazy, he was so scared, he didn't know what to do.

Has anyone found a solution yet? Or at least a reason for those sounds?

 

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Sal replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 6:39 AM

dasun:
Has anyone found a solution yet? Or at least a reason for those sounds?

A couple of boards inside both speakers of mine were replaced. I believe others here who have had issues have had internal boards replaced as well. Knock on wood, since the replacement of boards, it hasn't happened to me again. My B&O contact said that the tech felt it had something to do with a bad "sound module" or something to that effect, hence the board replacement. 

That being said, it seems that a lot of BL20 owners are having this issue which means that certainly there is a flaw in design, or some bad parts have slipped through.

When it happens, it is terrifying. My cat freaked out, and this happened when we had guests over once, and it was horrid, and embarrassing, to tell you the truth, to have an expensive, high quality product like this behave this way. As it has been said before: unacceptable.

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Sal replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 6:40 AM

Razlaw:
I contacted me dealer today about it. He advised me to call B and O and gave me a phone number.

 

Can you ask tech support if they know what is causing this? Something official would be nice. Perhaps point them to this thread, as this problem might be bigger than B&O know about.

 

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Michael replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 8:50 AM
Sal:

A couple of boards inside both speakers of mine were replaced. I believe others here who have had issues have had internal boards replaced as well. Knock on wood, since the replacement of boards, it hasn't happened to me again. My B&O contact said that the tech felt it had something to do with a bad "sound module" or something to that effect, hence the board replacement.

That being said, it seems that a lot of BL20 owners are having this issue which means that certainly there is a flaw in design, or some bad parts have slipped through.

When it happens, it is terrifying. My cat freaked out, and this happened when we had guests over once, and it was horrid, and embarrassing, to tell you the truth, to have an expensive, high quality product like this behave this way. As it has been said before: unacceptable.

Very sorry for both dasuns dog and your cat and everyone else. It's cause for a recall. This is scary even. Is it only BL20 Mk 1s? Maybe they fixed it in MK2 and just thought they could ignore it? I hope this isn't the case.

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Sal replied on Mon, Dec 12 2016 2:36 PM

Michael:
Maybe they fixed it in MK2 and just thought they could ignore it? I hope this isn't the case.

Mine are Mk2 I believe (lit B&O logo version).

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