ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Luke:So, with the addition of the Netflix button, does this mean other TVs like Horizon will start supporting Netflix ? Is it possible we can still access Netflix without the ugly remote ?
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Duels: Hiort: All posters that are bashing the Eclipse based on what you read need to hear and see it "live". I couldn't agree more.
Hiort: All posters that are bashing the Eclipse based on what you read need to hear and see it "live".
All posters that are bashing the Eclipse based on what you read need to hear and see it "live".
I couldn't agree more.
As I write also before!See it first your self live and then you can make your opinion.
Bashing is so easy.......Just my 2 cents.
svinaik:Design is not the core issue but the value proposition is. I have yet to question the value proposition on a B&O product before Eclipse (At least the products that I bought, BL 50, BV9, BL5, A9 Beosound 5, etc. etc.). I do not think it is just the 'Design" that is under criticism but the "Value Proposition" which is being challenged. Give me Eclipse 65 with floor stand at $ 10,000, I will take it in a heartbeat and "Live with the design weaknesses" but I am not willing to do the same at $ 15,000. At this price point, one has to ask whether the added benefits are worth the asking premium when the most critical part of the TV, i.e. The picture quality, can be had at very low price. In 2 years time, there may not be any Eclipse if the initial launch does not pan out well.
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Having seen the Eclipse in person I have a few observations:
1) The design and look is very much B&O. Especially from the front. There is nothing hinting at cheap materials, just as you would expect from B&O. The back of the TV on the other hand is not that impressive. The top half of the TV leaves a good impression and I didn't get a "cheap" feel from looking at it. The plastic covers on the lower half of the TV on the other hand good, could have been handled better. It seems too bulky compared to what should be possible. That being said it is by no means a deal breaker for me.
2) The sound is very impressive!
3) Picture is good. It's OLED with LG processing, so it can't really be bad.
4) The UI is clearly LG with a B&O soundbar connected to HDMI port 2. This is what bugs me the most. There is a clear distinction between the LG and B&O part of the interface, and that is a shame. It lags the B&O feel from previous Beovisions and it's quite obvious that B&O has tried to fit their Speaker-settings and Multi-room features into a LG interface that its built for these type of features. I would suspect that there is very little need to enter the B&O settings during daily use. Most should be easily accessible from the Beoremote.
So the daily interface is very much LG and WebOS. Existing B&O customers will have a hard time accepting this change, as B&O tradsmarks such as the electronic curtains and the clean interface etc. are gone. New customers on the other hand will during daily use see a WebOS interface, like any other LG. This might not be such a big deal for new customers, as the interface isn't bad. It's just not B&O.
What left me a bit disappointed was the obvious signs of it just being a B&O soundbar joined to a LG TV. When you power on the TV, it shows HDMI2 in the corner, as the soundbar is connected to this port. It does display the B&O logo on start-out, but the HDMI2 puts me off. When displaying sources, 8 HDMI ports shows up. 1-4 in the TV and A-D in the soundbar. The "sound" menu is grayed out, and sound options are located in the B&O menu.
And that leaves the last part:
5) Price.
The overall design, finish and quality of both sound and picture is very much B&O. But the half-baked interface is letting the product down. It makes it seem not quite finished and polished. And that is why the price seems too high. It feels like a LG+B&O and not a B&O+LG, and that makes it too easy just to compare prices with LG's other products. The premium for the B&O soundbar experience is just too high for many people to justify a purchase.
Another thing I really appreciate with my current Beoplay V1 is that B&O continuously provides it with updates. I have a very strong fear, that this will stop with the new LG partnership. I have no doubt that B&O will keep updating the Soundbar to provide the best possible integration with existing and new B&O products, but why should this LG TV and WebOS platform be any different from the other LG TVs. Major manufactures have a really bad habit of producing TVs and OS'es and forgetting everything about them, the moment the product is announced.
This leads me to believe that even if B&O wanted to update the Eclipse interface to become more streamlined, LGs engineers are already on to the next version of the OS, leaving the Eclipse obsolete in LG's eyes.
So by January when LG announces their 2018 line-up the Eclipse interface will seem old and updated. And that will have a much greater impact on the price, than it had previously had, as you now can compare a Beovision directly to the "competition".
A conclusion for this long post:
I really like the Eclipse, but are let down by the interface and price point. If I should ever buy a Beovision Eclipse the price either has to come down by quite a lot (~25%), or the interface should be updated to give a more seamless integration between the soundbar and TV and the price reduced by ~15%. That would make the B&O premium be much more reasonable without being cheap.
Beovision Eclipse gen2 (GX) w/ floorstand, Beolab 14.2, 4 speaker Shape and ATV4/Chromecast.
Beoplay A9mk4 GVA, Beosound 1 GVA, H2, H3, H8, E6, Beoplay EQ
svinaik:Design is not the core issue but the value proposition is. I have yet to question the value proposition on a B&O product before Eclipse (At least the products that I bought, BL 50, BV9, BL5, A9 Beosound 5, etc. etc.). I do not think it is just the 'Design" that is under criticism but the "Value Proposition" which is being challenged. Give me Eclipse 65 with floor stand at $ 10,000, I will take it in a heartbeat and "Live with the design weaknesses" but I am not willing to do the same at $ 15,000. At this price point, one has to ask whether the added benefits are worth the asking premium when the most critical part of the TV, i.e. The picture quality, can be had at very low price.
Hiort: I've seen it and listened to it, as I wrote in an earlier post. All posters that are bashing the Eclipse based on what you read need to hear and see it "live". It's a super TV. It lacks some beosignature things like the curtain and menus, I agree. Could it replace my BV11-46? Absolutely! Will look stunning on wall mount. It has all connectivity I need incl Multiroom.
I've seen it and listened to it, as I wrote in an earlier post. All posters that are bashing the Eclipse based on what you read need to hear and see it "live".
It's a super TV. It lacks some beosignature things like the curtain and menus, I agree.
Could it replace my BV11-46? Absolutely!
Will look stunning on wall mount.
It has all connectivity I need incl Multiroom.
I've seen it and sure it looks quite okey but I still think the speaker bar is too wide. As Aussie Michael said, it might depend solely on the wall bracket and its engine that fits inside the tube next to the speakers.I very much do not like the WebOS that lacks B&O feeling, style and logic. It is very much what I pay to not have to deal with in my old BeoVisions.Sound and picture is of course very good since OLED is great and B&O is doing great work on the soundbar. It is the mix between the parts, price of it all and how the interface works that I feel is the biggest issues. After all - it is a regular LG C7 OLED with the B&O soundbar and another plastic cabinette and that is it.
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Hiort: svinaik: Design is not the core issue but the value proposition is. I have yet to question the value proposition on a B&O product before Eclipse (At least the products that I bought, BL 50, BV9, BL5, A9 Beosound 5, etc. etc.). I do not think it is just the 'Design" that is under criticism but the "Value Proposition" which is being challenged. Give me Eclipse 65 with floor stand at $ 10,000, I will take it in a heartbeat and "Live with the design weaknesses" but I am not willing to do the same at $ 15,000. At this price point, one has to ask whether the added benefits are worth the asking premium when the most critical part of the TV, i.e. The picture quality, can be had at very low price. It's hard do discuss value proposition on a luxury product, in my mind. If you need to think about value proposition, it may not be the product for you. Again, that goes for all luxury goods.
svinaik: Design is not the core issue but the value proposition is. I have yet to question the value proposition on a B&O product before Eclipse (At least the products that I bought, BL 50, BV9, BL5, A9 Beosound 5, etc. etc.). I do not think it is just the 'Design" that is under criticism but the "Value Proposition" which is being challenged. Give me Eclipse 65 with floor stand at $ 10,000, I will take it in a heartbeat and "Live with the design weaknesses" but I am not willing to do the same at $ 15,000. At this price point, one has to ask whether the added benefits are worth the asking premium when the most critical part of the TV, i.e. The picture quality, can be had at very low price.
Design is not the core issue but the value proposition is.
I have yet to question the value proposition on a B&O product before Eclipse (At least the products that I bought, BL 50, BV9, BL5, A9 Beosound 5, etc. etc.). I do not think it is just the 'Design" that is under criticism but the "Value Proposition" which is being challenged.
Give me Eclipse 65 with floor stand at $ 10,000, I will take it in a heartbeat and "Live with the design weaknesses" but I am not willing to do the same at $ 15,000. At this price point, one has to ask whether the added benefits are worth the asking premium when the most critical part of the TV, i.e. The picture quality, can be had at very low price.
It's hard do discuss value proposition on a luxury product, in my mind.
If you need to think about value proposition, it may not be the product for you.
Again, that goes for all luxury goods.
I think you are missing the point. It is not that I have not bought luxury goods before. Please read my post again and see the list of B&O products I already own and now have BL 50 on order. One should not leave rational thinking behind just because they are buying luxury goods. As they say. Fools and money are parted easily.
Hiort: Again, that goes for all luxury goods.
I don't agree with this. I'm hugely into expensive Panerai and IWC watches (I've had some good deals and some bad purchases), but every watch has a 'value' depending on craftsmanship, metals used, type of mechanism and the likelihood of resale.
Of course, there are people out there who will simply buy a watch because 'they like the look of it' and have so much cash they don't care. But they should and they ought to weigh up the "value proposition" based on a number of factors.
For example, Panerai could produce a platinum watch case (an expensive metal) and compromise on a Swatch ETA movement, simply to save some money - the movement works and can be serviced and most people wouldn't even know the difference. But they don't. They don't for a reason. So, Panerai spent a lot of money and R&D coming up with their own movements, which adds to the entire 'value proposition'.
B&O has decided to cut back on staff, get rid of their entire vision department and simply asked LG to provide an "off the shelf" (with a few tweaks) panel to drop into a sound bar and B&O fans are going around in circles trying to justify this to themselves by saying "if you buy luxury you shouldn't care" and "it still has the B&O magic" (but without defining this magic) and so on.
svinaik:I think you are missing the point. It is not that I have not bought luxury goods before. Please read my post again and see the list of B&O products I already own and now have BL 50 on order. One should not leave rational thinking behind just because they are buying luxury goods. As they say. Fools and money are parted easily.
moxxey:I don't agree with this. I'm hugely into expensive Panerai and IWC watches (I've had some good deals and some bad purchases), but every watch has a 'value' depending on craftsmanship, metals used, type of mechanism and the likelihood of resale. Of course, there are people out there who will simply buy a watch because 'they like the look of it' and have so much cash they don't care. But they should and they ought to weigh up the "value proposition" based on a number of factors. For example, Panerai could produce a platinum watch case (an expensive metal) and compromise on a Swatch ETA movement, simply to save some money - the movement works and can be serviced and most people wouldn't even know the difference. But they don't. They don't for a reason. So, Panerai spent a lot of money and R&D coming up with their own movements, which adds to the entire 'value proposition'. B&O has decided to cut back on staff, get rid of their entire vision department and simply asked LG to provide an "off the shelf" (with a few tweaks) panel to drop into a sound bar and B&O fans are going around in circles trying to justify this to themselves by saying "if you buy luxury you shouldn't care" and "it still has the B&O magic" (but without defining this magic) and so on.
Hiort:It's hard do discuss value proposition on a luxury product, in my mind.If you need to think about value proposition, it may not be the product for you.Again, that goes for all luxury goods.
Aussie Michael: So for a long time many of us on this forum have said that B&O shouldn't do software, so here they haven't.
So for a long time many of us on this forum have said that B&O shouldn't do software, so here they haven't.
Aussie Michael: In Australia now, as the franchise is no longer under B&O control, they charge you for international delivery - will see how much this TV really is gonna cost.
In Australia now, as the franchise is no longer under B&O control, they charge you for international delivery - will see how much this TV really is gonna cost.
Canada is about the same, wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's 25k before tax here.
Luke: Is it possible we can still access Netflix without the ugly remote ?
Is it possible we can still access Netflix without the ugly remote ?
Yes, just open the WebOS smart tv and start Netflix from there.
You need a BeoRemote with bluetooth though.
The BeoRemote One BT that was released with Horizon, BV14 and Avant NG will work as well. But not the 1.gen BeoRemote One nor the Beo4.
/Lars
Editor in Chief, recordere.dkDanish online magazine for consumer electronics
davidr:Right. With all the complaints about b&o software, now that they use a stable, mass market, off the shelf OS that is on huge amount of sets.. complain it's not b&o.
BeoGreg:Price on floor stand for 55" 11.200 € with alu grill, 10.400 € with fret including the Netflix remote you can't change (so it's an extra 250 € or so if you want 4 mybuttons instead of 1 and I do with light control).
Well well, space is just a state of mind. As they say, where there is will, there is space.........:) for the BL 50. Let 'a see how long you hold on to "I have no space arguement".
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
BeoGreg:As my wife and kids said last night when I was showing them the Eclipse on Youtube, we will stick with our danish BV11-46 untill it dies. I want a proper 55" tv but not at that cost. Under the 10 k € bar was obligatory for that tv to sell.
Take a moment to absorb my father's old motto: "it shows the same programmes, doesn't it?" :)
This did make me chuckle, but he had a fairly decent point. I mean, just how good do we need a TV to "enjoy" the same programme? If I watch "The Great British Bake Off" on my BV12-65 it looks stunning. Of course, no doubt it looks more stunning on the Eclipse, but will I enjoy the programme any more than I had on the BV12-65? Do I come away thinking "...if only I had an even better picture...". Almost never. Never in fact. Doesn't cross my mind.
Most of us have a B&O which has market-leading audio. So we already have the best audio experience. An improvement in picture quality for the same size panel? Really worth it? Probably not.
I'd spend the £11K on a fantastic life-improving family holiday to the Carribean 👍🏼
Today I visited the Knightsbridge store to look at the Eclipse, following my visit to Selfridges earlier.
When B&O designed the 12-65 plasma with vision clear, curtains and the B&O interface with in house processing they also created a design that was unique and classy, they made a product which has quite a depth, by modern standards appear slim by clever design- why then do we have a super slim oled screen to work with and a 'design that bulks the product up to plasma standards and is downright ugly?
The 'salesman' was keen to explain how 'alliance with B&O' that this product represents, faling to mention that LG make it and showing me the B&O software!! really? LG have been using it for years and the old chestnut about screen upgrades when technology 'moves on' hence 'future proofing' your purchase!
Is this the same 'future proofing' promised when I purchased my beo system 4 will it accept the latest audio codecs- NO is it upgradeable -NO will it accept 4K - NO will it allow third party screens - yes it will but the internal processing is so far behind the latest TVS there is no point.
We know that screen tech is improving every six months, however the processing technology still has a long way to go and is improving at a far greater rate- movement for example still not as good as plasma.
This begs the question, in three years when the Eclipse owner requests a panel upgrade for his LG TV, the internals will be way out of date anyway- in the unlikely event they are still working.
If I was going to buy into this, which I wont as I am sick of poor product design, shocking after sales services and products that don't work, I would want in writing that this panel can be upgraded at reasonable expense direct from B&O Not the dealers- who generally lie like a cheap watch and will more than likely be bust anyway.- shame on you B&O the arrogant attitude and terrible service means you deserve to collapse.
355f: When B&O designed the 12-65 plasma with vision clear, curtains and the B&O interface with in house processing they also created a design that was unique and classy, they made a product which has quite a depth, by modern standards appear slim by clever design- why then do we have a super slim oled screen to work with and a 'design that bulks the product up to plasma standards and is downright ugly?
Precisely my point about the BV12-65. Why do we need a super-thin panel? I'd be more than happy with an OLED in a BV14 shell. Or an updated BV12-65 with the current centre speaker. I don't need a huge sound bar sticking out of the wall - the BV12-65 + BL3s do an equally good job (if not better).
And like I said above about picture quality. Rarely do I come away from my BV12-65 and think "if only that HD picture quality could be improved..." or "those colours could be so much more life-like, it's a real shame".
As a fellow 12-65 owner, (if am right and you own one), i wouldn't be in any rush whatsoever to get rid of it.
Yes screen tech is moving on, but for 95% of my uses (Sport in HD), the 12-65 is crisp, beautiful colours and bright. I really do not think even the OLED's look much better for broadcast HD.
So i looked out of curiosity yesterday, and again in passing John Lewis this morning at the Sony and LG. Fabulous with their test 4K HDR material, but not much different to the 12-65 with BBC HD or Sky Sports HD.
And yes, the motion on the 12-65 is pretty darn good.
So, while the Eclipse gets some criticism for its lack of B&O interface (quite rightly), and leading edge video processing - in the end, if you're not planning on buying loads of 4K HDR Blu-Rays, its not something i get too upset about. And most of the 4K UHD BR discs are new action films, 90% of which are terrible films in the end, and they're expensive!
And yes, some will say OLED and HDR are the future and while that may well be correct, content is still thin on the ground.
They showed my a 4K HDR clip of Passengers on the Sony - yeah it looked better than on my 12-65 with a regular Blu-Ray, but not by so much that i'd sink another 10k into changing everything around.
Sandyb: As a fellow 12-65 owner, (if am right and you own one), i wouldn't be in any rush whatsoever to get rid of it.
Yes I am - and mine is an older version with the BS3 and I still think it's fantastic. Nearly everyone stops and pauses, asks if they can look at it, too. It still looks very modern in 2017. Now *that's* a timeless design.
Completely agree re. 4K. I've seen Premiership football and the 4K footage was shot at a slightly different angle (which I didn't like) and, although crisper, made very little difference when I went back to the 12-65. Same game. The result didn't change either, oddly. I expected a much better performance in 4K, but the players played in exactly the same manner?
re my earlier wrist related question....311, 249, and v old 008....sold my IWC's last year.....wasnt as emotionally attached to them as the aforementioned PAM's....
BeoVision Eclipse 55”, Beolab 18s, Beolab 19s, Beosound 1, Beoplay P2, H3, BeoRemote One IR, BeoRemote One BT, Beoplay S8, Beosound Essence MkII, BeoTime
moxxey:Take a moment to absorb my father's old motto: "it shows the same programmes, doesn't it?" :) This did make me chuckle, but he had a fairly decent point. I mean, just how good do we need a TV to "enjoy" the same programme? If I watch "The Great British Bake Off" on my BV12-65 it looks stunning. Of course, no doubt it looks more stunning on the Eclipse, but will I enjoy the programme any more than I had on the BV12-65? Do I come away thinking "...if only I had an even better picture...". Almost never. Never in fact. Doesn't cross my mind. Most of us have a B&O which has market-leading audio. So we already have the best audio experience. An improvement in picture quality for the same size panel? Really worth it? Probably not. I'd spend the £11K on a fantastic life-improving family holiday to the Carribean 👍🏼
afternoon sir, and apologies again for interrupting your try out session in Islington yesterday, but good to meet you!
I'm much happier with the Avant MK 1 than the BV14. The older panel is better and more even picture wise than the newer ones on the 14 + Horizon.
I still wouldn't have an LED/LCD as my main screen, as they can't handle dark scenes that well. Was watching Twin Peaks (plenty of dark scenes!) yesterday on both the Avant and my 12-65, big difference. But overall, much happier PQ wise with the Avant Mk 1 than the 14. And as for Android - get that away from me stat.
By the end of the 90 minutes or so there yesterday, i did end up thinking the Eclipse (aluminium) looked pretty cool, slightly odd, but cool.
And it is full 4K, so if HDR discs etc are in your future, then go for it - they'll look fab.
Good luck either way.
paolomariano:Have you noticed that the holes at the top are smaller than the ones at the bottom? Is it just the picture, or is it really like this? Any possible reason?
KMA:It is really like that. As per their launch presentation, the holes are bigger at the bottom of the grille because that is where most of the bass comes from (the middle center woofer behind the grille). For the bass, more air needs to be pushed towards the listener, hence the bigger holes. The live presentation where this is mentioned is available for replay at B&O's facebook page. Just skip to the last 10 minutes of the presentation. KMA B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.