ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Now that the moment is EOL is there something new in the pipeline or this is it?!
As i understand, the Core is all they have going forward. I think they've given up on 'Music Systems' and would rather just make a 'conduit' (so to speak) for the latest app, service, or whatever...
Things change so fast these days I think they're sick of trying to keep up. Not enough R.O.I for them for a start..
Lee
And it seems like they eventually will drop the music/radio part of their app, too - leaving customers with their (hopefully updated and error free) Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer or whatever app they fancy for streaming.
Roger
Roger:And it seems like they eventually will drop the music/radio part of their app, too - leaving customers with their (hopefully updated and error free) Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer or whatever app they fancy for streaming. Roger
If it takes a company for almost 2 years to make an audiostreamer work then probably yes this is the right choice to quit
koning:If it takes a company for almost 2 years to make an audiostreamer work then probably yes this is the right choice to quit
This makes me sad... What brought me to the B&O brand was the engineering magic that the older music systems had. Most of the newer stuff lacks this in my opinion. I would love for B&O to come out with another music system that has the flair of the older systems. One thing they are really missing right now is the vinyl revival. They should definitely come out with a new Beogram...
Beosound 9000 MK III, Beosound Century, Beogram 5005, Beolab 8000, Beolab 5000, Beolab 4000, Beolab 5, Beovision 8, Beovision 10, Beovision 5, Beoplay A2, Beoplay E8, Beoplay H6.
9 LEE: As i understand, the Core is all they have going forward. I think they've given up on 'Music Systems' and would rather just make a 'conduit' (so to speak) for the latest app, service, or whatever... Things change so fast these days I think they're sick of trying to keep up. Not enough R.O.I for them for a start.. Lee
What is the Core (also as part of the Shapes), if it is not a ‘Music System’?
And the BS35, the BS1 and BS2.....the A9, the A6 the M5 and M3.
They are just not the kind of music system, that a Moment is or the older ones were.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Roger: And it seems like they eventually will drop the music/radio part of their app, too - leaving customers with their (hopefully updated and error free) Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer or whatever app they fancy for streaming. Roger
I wonder why they are develloping the Bang & Olufsen app, then?
How should we control BeoLink multiroom - and how the built-in sources (e.g. Tunein, Deezer) of the ‘Music Systems’.....without the ‘music/radio part of their app’? What would be left for the app?
Tucker: I would love for B&O to come out with another music system that has the flair of the older systems.
I would love for B&O to come out with another music system that has the flair of the older systems.
But, generally speaking, those days have gone. There are simply not enough people out there who want to spend top dollar on an old-school music system. There are some, sure, but not many. Add speakers and you're talking about a £7-8K just to listen to music.
Let's face it, if you still listen to CDs, then one of the older devices will suffice. If you want to stream audio, then you'd pick up one of the newer devices such as the BeoSound 2 or similar, as MM suggested.
Millemissen:What is the Core (also as part of the Shapes), if it is not a ‘Music System’?
An overpriced Airplay equivalent; not even in fancy packaging, just a small plain black round blob. Certainly not a musical system.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
BAND'OH!:An overpriced Airplay equivalent; not even in fancy packaging, just a small plain black round blob. Certainly not a musical system.
More on the state of the union to be found here: http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/28585.aspx
I can understand why B&O will give up their unique platform as the ones from Apple, Google and Amazon will dominate the marketplace - but where does this leave B&O? Will the Bang & Olufsen and the BeoPlay products be the same, with the B&O gear dressed in more fancy clothes compared to the less expensive Play gear?
jonprocter: BAND'OH!: An overpriced Airplay equivalent; not even in fancy packaging, just a small plain black round blob. Certainly not a musical system. In all fairness, they do expect that blob to be either hidden behind a tile in BeoSound Shape or hidden away like the Essence/BS5 black box.
BAND'OH!: An overpriced Airplay equivalent; not even in fancy packaging, just a small plain black round blob. Certainly not a musical system.
In all fairness, they do expect that blob to be either hidden behind a tile in BeoSound Shape or hidden away like the Essence/BS5 black box.
If you're going to charge premium prices, what about making it look premium, even if it is going to be hidden away..?
It's Bang & Olufsen. Show some pride in the name!
BAND'OH!: Millemissen:What is the Core (also as part of the Shapes), if it is not a ‘Music System’? An overpriced Airplay equivalent; not even in fancy packaging, just a small plain black round blob. Certainly not a musical system.
Now com’on,
how should a Music System/‘musical system’ be/look like....if it should please you?
N.B. Not talking ‘retro’ here - a Music System for present and future users!
By the way, calling the BS Core an ‘AirPlay equivalent’ gives me the impression, that you don’t realize the potential of that system.
I love the idea of a small BeoSound Shape setup, but don't understand how to get it on the wall (with hidden wires), effectively, and really cannot be bothered to go into my local dealership to ask. I also read "The high price tag and installation aspect of the Shape will deter many..." so I lost interest.
9 LEE: If you're going to charge premium prices, what about making it look premium, even if it is going to be hidden away..? It's Bang & Olufsen. Show some pride in the name! Lee
There have always been black or white boxes to hide away in the history.
Just think of the MCL 2A relay box - nothing fancy about that.
Or the master unit of the BC2, just a black box with cables - what you don’t need to see, should be hidden away.
Also here: how should a ‘thing’ like the BS Core look like.......if it should ‘look premium’, any suggestions, please.
Why not make a Core that you don't have to hide away?
Make it look premium in a slick looking and well styled brushed aluminium box with little wood trimmings if you like. Put a tiny LCD display on it to show current source (or whatever), with a glowing 'BANG & OLUFSEN' logo? Then you can appease those who want to 'see' a 'music system' and call it such...
For those who want to hide it away they can choose the 'plain black plastic' version for less money?
Just a thought... You can then make one product all things to all men, so to speak.
Millemissen: Just think of the MCL 2A relay box - nothing fancy about that.
That wasn't a music system - it was a relay box. Your point there doesn't stack up...
When you've only got ONE music player in the range, it needs to be something the dealer can hold in front of a customer and make them want to buy the physical object.. in my opinion (which doesn't count for much these days!)
Not that i dont agree that it could be nice, but I am not sure that there is the big market for it?
And the product is the Essense remote, that you can see and feel.
But I hope they will come with some again like the Moment.
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
9 LEE:Why not make a Core that you don't have to hide away? Make it look premium in a slick looking and well styled brushed aluminium box with little wood trimmings if you like. Put a tiny LCD display on it to show current source (or whatever), with a glowing 'BANG & OLUFSEN' logo? Then you can appease those who want to 'see' a 'music system' and call it such... For those who want to hide it away they can choose the 'plain black plastic' version for less money? Just a thought... You can then make one product all things to all men, so to speak. Lee
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Yes, that would be one beautiful object to have and display. <3 I am hopeful and waiting for CES. :)
Yes I like this idea as well. It is all about a beautiful premium looking object to me; something you can see, touch and interact with. I thought this was where B&O excelled at one point in time. It sounds like all the good people with creativity have left and moved on so its no surprise we are seeing the products we are. They are now 'just another' mainstream brand.
BAND'OH!:Yes I like this idea as well. It is all about a beautiful premium looking object to me; something you can see, touch and interact with. I thought this was where B&O excelled at one point in time. It sounds like all the good people with creativity have left and moved on so its no surprise we are seeing the products we are. They are now 'just another' mainstream brand.
9 LEE: Millemissen: Just think of the MCL 2A relay box - nothing fancy about that. That wasn't a music system - it was a relay box. Your point there doesn't stack up... When you've only got ONE music player in the range, it needs to be something the dealer can hold in front of a customer and make them want to buy the physical object.. in my opinion (which doesn't count for much these days!) Lee
Sure, it wasn’t - but it was just an example of things/boxes, that was made to be hidden away.
And the ir-eye (you do remember that - that rectangular piece with a couple of touch points on it) was the ‘show part’ of that link-room ‘music system’.
There even was a small stand for it, to put on the bedside.
That is (as Sanddyb already noted) similar to what the Essence Remote is nowadays - (apart from the fact that there is no dedicated link-room or master-room music system anymore. Every music system can act as a linkroom system, can be ‘master’ or ‘slave’).
In my view there are a lot of ‘Music Systems’ in the range now - more than ever actually.
And for many their BV is the Music System as well - they might not need more!
However, if you only count-in, what can have external speakers connected to it, you are right - then it is limited.
As for the ‘dressed-up version’ of a Core, I am sceptical....whether that would sell or not?
But the idea - mentioned above - of having something like the middle part of the BS35 as a music system with external speakers (WiSA, please) sounds nice to me. I could easily fall for that kind of ‘dress’ ;-)
And, by the way - your opinion counts just as much as any other opinion!
StUrrock: It’s a shame, this lazy design attitude seemed to start with the Playmaker🙁
It’s a shame, this lazy design attitude seemed to start with the Playmaker🙁
I’d say it differently:
The challenge of designing a modern music system started with the decline of physical media.
Millemissen:I’d say it differently: The challenge of designing a modern music system started with the decline of physical media. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
9 LEE:If you're going to charge premium prices, what about making it look premium, even if it is going to be hidden away..? It's Bang & Olufsen. Show some pride in the name! Lee
Millemissen: I’d say it differently: The challenge of designing a modern music system started with the decline of physical media.
Do you think the "challenge" of the Playmaker design was tricky? It looks like a very cheap £75 smoke alarm.
moxxey:Do you think the "challenge" of the Playmaker design was tricky? It looks like a very cheap £75 smoke alarm.
jonprocter: moxxey: Do you think the "challenge" of the Playmaker design was tricky? It looks like a very cheap £75 smoke alarm. This! I get that they had to make it out of a material that won’t obstruct WiFi signal but the plastic they used was awful and creaky. The AirPort Express (obviously not exactly the same in features) was built better, better looking, and was considerably cheaper too. The worst part is that the Playmaker was made to be on display but looked and felt like something by a cheap Chinese brand.
moxxey: Do you think the "challenge" of the Playmaker design was tricky? It looks like a very cheap £75 smoke alarm.
This! I get that they had to make it out of a material that won’t obstruct WiFi signal but the plastic they used was awful and creaky. The AirPort Express (obviously not exactly the same in features) was built better, better looking, and was considerably cheaper too. The worst part is that the Playmaker was made to be on display but looked and felt like something by a cheap Chinese brand.
I still remember a friend laughing when I tried controlling the volume when rubbing my finger over the front of the plastic grille. Looked so stupid and he was right. At one stage, I had two of Playmaker's, too.
9 LEE: Put a tiny LCD display on it to show current source (or whatever), Lee
Put a tiny LCD display on it to show current source (or whatever),
I woulld love a system with an LCD display to show what is playing. Album art would be a plus! This is what I like about the BeoSound 35. If it was a bit smaller I would probably have purchased it instead of the BeoSound 2. When I am playing TuneIn and hear a song that I like, it would be easier for me to just look at the system instead of looking for my iPad. This would get me to upgrade my Essence.
Part of the problem is that the B&O range has become somewhat schizophrenic. My BeoLab 90s are fantastic speakers, but there's nothing in the current B&O range worthy of them. As sources, I'm using a BeoSound 9000 (as transport only; if I were using the inbuilt DACs, I would have opted for a Beogram CD 5500), a quadraphonic Beogram 6000 and Beomaster 6000, a Beocord 5000 Type 4705 and a Cambridge CXU.
My feeling is that B&O has missed a trick: people willing to spend £59,000 on speakers would be willing to spend £15,000 on a turntable to rival the Linn LP12 Klimax and the same on a CD transport to rival the DCS Vivaldi. B&O should be tapping that market, not creating buggy software for low-end (but expensive) streamers.
I think there is a market to tap into I agree but I am not sure just how big a slice they could take. Maybe they missed a trick, maybe not. Difficult one this.
An anecdote doesn't necessarily add up to strong evidence, but whilst I was moving house and not using my Beogram 6000 I lent it to my dealer, who used it as a display item on his front table. Almost every customer who came in wanted to buy it, stating that a turntable was the B&O product they wanted most.
politician: My feeling is that B&O has missed a trick: people willing to spend £59,000 on speakers would be willing to spend £15,000 on a turntable....
My feeling is that B&O has missed a trick: people willing to spend £59,000 on speakers would be willing to spend £15,000 on a turntable....
In defence of MM, who may jump to the defence of B&O, I'd like to defend MM, and B&O...
I'd like to think B&O would have done their research and found that there are more buyers of speakers at £59k than there are buyers of turntables at £15k, and said "this is a bridge too far for us.."
A 2017 remake of the BeoGram 4000 would have blown the vinyl buffs away, but maybe it wasn't viable. Who knows. I'm sure B&O do, so I won't question it.
Also, if I had a pair of BL90's, the last thing I'd want to do is play some Vinyl on them. I'd be all for lossless, CD or otherwise, to extract every single detail from the song, at maximum quality, every time.
Being honest though, I think the vinyl brigade probably look down their noses at Bang & Olufsen, so it's probably not worth the investment?
On my system, I'd say that vinyl, CD and hi-res are pretty quality-neutral: the standard of recording and mastering has far more impact on sound quality. By the same token, albums that were expensively recorded don't necessarily sound better than those that were done quickly and cheaply. For example, Fleetwood Mac's 1975 album, which was cut in ten days, is a much better recording than "Rumours", on which they spent months. However, the most incredible, holographic-sounding vinyl LP I've heard was a privately issued album by an American country-rock band — a disc so obscure it doesn't even appear on Discogs.
9 LEE: Being honest though, I think the vinyl brigade probably look down their noses at Bang & Olufsen, so it's probably not worth the investment?
As much as I'd like a B&O turntable, I tend to agree.
I've been scanning some audio and home theater forums the last few days, and I had forgotten how much so many of these people dislike B&O. "Style over substance", "Bose-like" and "overpriced trash" are the common themes.
I came back here and re-read the Eclipse thread to feel better . At least on this site, the negative opinions are at least somewhat informed.
9 LEE: I'd like to think B&O would have done their research and found that there are more buyers of speakers at £59k than there are buyers of turntables at £15k, and said "this is a bridge too far for us.."
Also, remember B&O's other dilemma. Realistically they are a shop on your high street attempting to reach your average (but rich) consumer. Most of those consumers aren't enthusiasts. They don't care (as much as some of us) about 'sound quality'. They simply go out and buy B&O as it's easy, feels like it's the luxury brand that matches their reputation, plus they know/think they are getting something of a certain level of quality.
They aren't geeks. They aren't audiophiles. That's not the B&O's target audience. That's why B&O doesn't go after this audience. People who have old CDs don't need a new audio system either. I know a number of old-school B&O customers here in Bath and none of them know anything about Spotify, streaming and using their smartphone to stream content to their speakers - this is totally beyond them (and these are your average B&O customers).
Perhaps a second edition of this is what B&O needs?
https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=1007
I'm sure you all remember when CD players were introduced and most of them looked like modified cassette/tape decks - before BeoSystem 2500 and later BeoSound 9000 came along. Would be great if we could see something like this again - but now for a new media. But I guess a brave CEO (Knutsen) and chief designer (Lewis) is mandatory?