ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear Lord... not again...
Peter Pan: @ Sandyb. So it gets on first -
@ Sandyb. So it gets on first -
I know!
The forum has been pollution free of this nonsense for what feels like a year now, thankfully.
kuyttendaele: Dear Lord... not again... Peter Pan: @ Sandyb. So it gets on first -
I hope to not offend anyone and this is a genuine question:
Could you tell me why you like that TV that much? This is something I cannot understand.
I've recently seen it in real and I thought It gonna change my mind, but it didn't.
I can't understand the purpose of the movement, it is useless! When closed the half covered screen make the whole set looks like a stored away furniture folded in a hurry. And as far as i understand the screen is of no use in that position. Seller told me about a reminiscence of the Beocenter 2, C'mon, really?
Beovision turning stand had purposes, Beosound XX00 magic doors had purposes, Beosound 1/3 aerial movement had purpose… etc.
But here, I can't see the point of the movement other than "hey, look it's B&O, it moves!" to what anybody could answer "cool… but why could we still see the screen borders?"
You may find me sarcastic, but i truly don't understand so I believe I'm missing something. Please tell me.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
I sort of agree.
Its been received better than the Eclipse (I think most would agree?), but the Eclipse was design wise decent but far from a timeless B&O classic, so not a high hurdle for the Harmony to clear.
The Harmony to me looks better or more interesting closed, but when open looks good but not especially beautiful. The proportions when open look ok, but not especially harmonious - not harmonious in the way that a BV11 did.
Of course the recent Avant was no classic - but design wise it was tidy, not trying to make a loud statement and as such did the job and was not controversial. That had certain merit.
The Harmony design is more restrictive - on the floor in a huge room, fine it looks good. But it cant really be wall mounted above anything. There will be some use cases (myself included) where wall mounting above even a very low slung cabinet is just not possible. And it also sticks out a mile from the wall. So design wise, its full of restrictions / compromises - one of which is the lack of rotating stand.
LG's new / upcoming G or Gallery series looks far more enticing from a wall mounting perspective, being the near wallpaper version that looks super slick.
matador43: I hope to not offend anyone and this is a genuine question: Could you tell me why you like that TV that much? This is something I cannot understand. I've recently seen it in real and I thought It gonna change my mind, but it didn't. I can't understand the purpose of the movement, it is useless! When closed the half covered screen make the whole set looks like a stored away furniture folded in a hurry. And as far as i understand the screen is of no use in that position. Seller told me about a reminiscence of the Beocenter 2, C'mon, really? Beovision turning stand had purposes, Beosound XX00 magic doors had purposes, Beosound 1/3 aerial movement had purpose… etc. But here, I can't see the point of the movement other than "hey, look it's B&O, it moves!" to what anybody could answer "cool… but why could we still see the screen borders?" You may find me sarcastic, but i truly don't understand so I believe I'm missing something. Please tell me.
Totally agree - movement that adds nothing. It reminds me of the 120" model from a few years ago where the £30K(ish) motorised stand lifted it 18" off the floor - utterly pointless!!
Ban boring signatures!
Chris Townsend:I’m utterly with you. Magic is great, if it’s for a purpose. This has no purpose.
I disagree; the purpose is to cover the enormously dull black tv screen. A tv is off for 90% of the time anyway, so hiding the screen with a beautifully crafted speaker system makes a lot of sense.
And: the design of the Harmony makes it easier to fit a larger screen. A 77" Harmony is as present in the room as a 65" Eclipse. It's one of the reasons they won't make a 55" Harmony: it would look ridicoulously small...
1990:the purpose is to cover the enormously dull black tv screen.
That's the point, it don't hide anything, it just makes one wonder why did you buy a so big screen to hide it behind your nice wooden radiator.It makes look a X000€ TV like an ironing table you dont know what to do with…
Also, if it's closed 90% of the time, and the environment is dusty, you must clean it more often than a regular TV which collect dust too but in a more uniform way !?
matador43: 1990:the purpose is to cover the enormously dull black tv screen. That's the point, it don't hide anything, it just makes one wonder why did you buy a so big screen to hide it behind your nice wooden radiator.It makes look a X000€ TV like an ironing table you dont know what to do with… Also, if it's closed 90% of the time, and the environment is dusty, you must clean it more often than a regular TV which collect dust too but in a more uniform way !?
I am all in for the Harmony, it is brilliant design that hides the big screen.
The Harmony 77" is the same height closed as the 55" Eclipse.
I talked with my dealer, and he was selling a 55" Eclipse, But the wife would rather have the smaller tv (Harmony 65")
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
Emil Jensen:it is brilliant design that hides the big screen.
… Almost hide.
Edit:
Sorry, it was blunt.
Again, genuinly, I can't see it as a brilliant design.I mean it only trades a big screen for a big something which looks like a screen badly hidden behind another big thing you can maybe enjoy as a speaker if you're listening to it or if you're a beolover. I mean the harmony when folded, is not "a beautiful object" or whatsover.
If the screen would have been fully concealed behind the speaker, I would have understood that, it is just not my thing or tastes. But like that?
I dont like the Eclipse (actually to my tastes, the most beautiful TV set design wise I've seen are BV14 wooden and BV Horizon), So I dont like the Eclipse, but I understand I may forget that when I switch it on. Enough to stand the space it eats, negociate the WAF and allocate the space usually dedicated to a TV set. An when it's off, it just like a TV set switched off.
Well, I'll stop here, I think you'all get my point
B&O in my life 😊:
matador i don't really understand you.
You make it a genuine question,
We answer what the movement is for,
You answer back that you don't like the design.
And that is totally fair, a design is rarely for everyone.
But please try to accept the explanation given to your genuine question.
Emil Jensen: matador i don't really understand you. […]
matador i don't really understand you. […]
You're right, and that's why :
matador43:Well, I'll stop here, I think you'all get my point
But Beoworld is also a free forum where anybody can speak, so please try to accept my curiosity.
Topic closed on my side.
Emil Jensen: I am all in for the Harmony, it is brilliant design that hides the big screen. The Harmony 77" is the same height closed as the 55" Eclipse. I talked with my dealer, and he was selling a 55" Eclipse, But the wife would rather have the smaller tv (Harmony 65")
If the intention was to hide the big screen they could've fitted a motorised Roller Blind to the top edge of the screen! Instead they applied complex movement to the speakers for no real reason other than in an attempt to impress. I'm with matador, it's movement for movements sake to me - it works for some and not for others.
I think it's irrelevant, you think it's brilliant, Let's call the whole thing off!
matador43: Emil Jensen: matador i don't really understand you. […] You're right, and that's why : matador43:Well, I'll stop here, I think you'all get my point … Even if there was no answer to "what the movement is for". Because there is no answer ! I read gain the little booklet about the Harmony where it is well stated that the movement is for entertainment only. But Beoworld is also a free forum where anybody can speak, so please try to accept my curiosity. Topic closed on my side.
- “Pristine picture performance combined with truly immersive sound ensures a mesmerising viewing experience. With Beovision Harmony, we wanted to create a meaningful object for the interior that reduces the visual presence of the TV and transforms it into something that people develop an emotional attachment to,” said John Mollanger, Bang & Olufsens Executive Vice President for Brand and Markets.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1554726272
Emil Jensen: - “Pristine picture performance combined with truly immersive sound ensures a mesmerising viewing experience. With Beovision Harmony, we wanted to create a meaningful object for the interior that reduces the visual presence of the TV and transforms it into something that people develop an emotional attachment to,” said John Mollanger, Bang & Olufsens Executive Vice President for Brand and Markets. https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1554726272
This is a marketeer talking not Mother Theresa, would you really expect him to say, "We made the speakers move cos we think it'll sell to the gullible"?
Puncher: Emil Jensen: I am all in for the Harmony, it is brilliant design that hides the big screen. The Harmony 77" is the same height closed as the 55" Eclipse. I talked with my dealer, and he was selling a 55" Eclipse, But the wife would rather have the smaller tv (Harmony 65") it's movement for movements sake to me
it's movement for movements sake to me
Hallo Puncher,
Thank you, a opinion you are free to have.
But I would like to add some of my observation why I think it all make sense.
And I would like to discuss it, because it is more the hardware part of the design, so not if you like it or not, more what they intended and what you or others would have done different.
So first of all, B&O have always use movement as a design object, a experience like no other.
Here you get that, never done before.
If you just had curtains in the top you would hide the TV, not make it more pleasent to the room, not the B&O way.
Also if you did this the TV would be really tall and fill much more in the room.
That the 77" is no higher then the 55" eclipse is why it feels much less dominating in a room.
Then you could argue that the TV could just come down, like the PP design.
But then you would not break the big square box just make a smaller one.
The Harmony turned off make a completely different design, and feels a lot less dominating than a normal 77" would.
And you make a remark on the price, and yes it is not cheap, but it is the same price as a LG W9, and I would argue the B&O is a better value, but in no way cheap.
Puncher: Emil Jensen: - “Pristine picture performance combined with truly immersive sound ensures a mesmerising viewing experience. With Beovision Harmony, we wanted to create a meaningful object for the interior that reduces the visual presence of the TV and transforms it into something that people develop an emotional attachment to,” said John Mollanger, Bang & Olufsens Executive Vice President for Brand and Markets. https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1554726272 This is a marketeer talking not Mother Theresa, would you really expect him to say, "We made the speakers move cos we think it'll sell to the gullible"?
Am I wrong or did it not answer Matadors question?
Emil Jensen:And you make a remark on the price, and yes it is not cheap, but it is the same price as a LG W9, and I would argue the B&O is a better value, but in no way cheap.
Did I?
But seeing as you mention it, which of these scenarios sounds most likely -
"Let's use colour, texture, light and shadow to make the Harmony appear smaller than it really is"?
"Make it move, we can sell it for more"!
Emil Jensen:Am I wrong or did it not answer Matadors question?
Only if he asked, "How did B&O's head of sales describe it"?
Maybe I start to see why we disagree. And in the end it's always a matter of taste: you obviously like the harmony so your keen to understand the philosophy, I don't and therefore can't see the point of it. I've been through that, spending hours explaining to my wife WHY the Ouverture is beautiful object .
Emil Jensen: Here you get that, never done before. If you just had curtains in the top you would hide the TV, not make it more pleasent to the room, not the B&O way. Also if you did this the TV would be really tall and fill much more in the room. That the 77" is no higher then the 55" eclipse is why it feels much less dominating in a room.
That's what I tried to say talking about "Purposes": That the TV go up and down doesn't make any more space around, maybe you can hang something to the wall but not much more; As for the visual domination, as I tried to say without success too, I would feel more less dominated by a big TV screen than by an little smaller but still big something which look (sorry) weird to the untrained eye.The flat Avant had a move (with the double turning stand) which allows the TV to protrude less into the room when off: that was a purpose.
I'm sorry if you felt insulted and that was not my intention to criticize people who like the Harmony.Each one with his taste, and everybody to enjoy his stuff.
All the best.
You cant make him like it, which I'm sure you know.
As I've said before, its a much more interesting design than the Eclipse, but it has its elements of clumsiness too. The stand / mechanism is very chunky , poses its problems in wall mounting, and even on the floor the Harmony looks not particularly special when open.
Very few questioned the outright beauty of the 10/11/14 design, and quite rightly, as it was magnificent. There was little really to question, and much to praise. The Harmony doesnt fall into the same category, which is all he was asking really - do people really love it that much. And the answer is no, not quite. Of course, its been better received than the Eclipse, but that doesnt qualify it for the adoration that the 11/14 design earned.
Its not a question of accepting an explanation and then seeing the light.
Emil Jensen: Puncher: Emil Jensen: - “Pristine picture performance combined with truly immersive sound ensures a mesmerising viewing experience. With Beovision Harmony, we wanted to create a meaningful object for the interior that reduces the visual presence of the TV and transforms it into something that people develop an emotional attachment to,” said John Mollanger, Bang & Olufsens Executive Vice President for Brand and Markets. https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1554726272 This is a marketeer talking not Mother Theresa, would you really expect him to say, "We made the speakers move cos we think it'll sell to the gullible"? Am I wrong or did it not answer Matadors question?
Interesting discussion, I think we can replace “Beovision Harmony” in all the previous post by “Beosound Ouverture” and get the same discussion one would have had in the 90’s.
The Beosystem 2500 (aka Ouverture) also looked weird compared to existing hifi (even b&o ) and also had “meaningless movement”.
i think the Harmony has the same potential to become a design icon.
diisign.com
mbee: i think the Harmony has the same potential to become a design icon.
Not a chance!
Chris Townsend:If the doors didn’t open on the Overture, you couldn’t get the CD out. That’s the whole point of them opening surely, and thus not the same.
Exactly - movement for a reason.
Metadata in audio mode.
Millemissen:It is a feature, that was announced, but not yet released.How it will be implemented.......and when - and if at all - it will be released, is not known. MM
MM
1990:Harmony with a beautifully crafted speaker system makes a lot of sense.
Here is a solution - We all have different tastes.
Now my wife can see the flowers in the window sill, when he is not watching TV.And then I can hear music, and see what I choose.
AnalogPlanet:True, but what would make such a "dream" so impossible? Adding LG C9 to something else - base of the rollable LG TV equipped with B@O Stage loudspeakers, for example, or the Harmony (sound) base? What in your view, makes it so completely impossible that you dismiss the idea as nonsense? Not discussing B&O strategy here, but rather is it possible to execute it.
What in your view, makes it so completely impossible that you dismiss the idea as nonsense? Not discussing B&O strategy here, but rather is it possible to execute it.
matador43: I'm sorry if you felt insulted and that was not my intention to criticize people who like the Harmony.Each one with his taste, and everybody to enjoy his stuff. All the best.
No worries, I did not.
It was more, you ask a question we answered, and I was expecting:
ahh okay I see what B&O tried to do, but In my opinion they did not succeed.
People have different taste, and I for sure did not like the Harmony right away.
And I still think it is missing the turning function.
but yea all the best to you too.
Puncher: Chris Townsend:If the doors didn’t open on the Overture, you couldn’t get the CD out. That’s the whole point of them opening surely, and thus not the same. Exactly - movement for a reason.
But why should the doors be there?
The Harmony moves to make the TV less dominating in the room.
Please, fine you do not think that the Harmony reach the goal in Your opinion
But the movement have a reason, stated by B&O, as I linked to earlier
mbee:…and also had “meaningless movement”.
Not exactly the same: in the Beosound 2500 and Ouverture, it also (sort of) protect the tape heads and CD lens from dust.It was also common for Japanese HiFi systems to be aligned in wooden cabinets with a glass door. so it was more an interpretation of a common use, with some purpose than a meaningless gimmick.
Peter Pan:Metadata in audio mode. Here is a solution - We all have different tastes. Now my wife can see the flowers in the window sill, when he is not watching TV. And then I can hear music, and see what I choose.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
No, the Ouverture wouldn't have lost anything useful without doors! That's exactly the point when one says that the big visible speakers on the Harmony are useless...
It is the most opulently designed TV I can think of. Might end up like the BL5 or BL 90. It’s iconic in that it isn’t a generic design.
Agreed, not even close.
Puncher: mbee: i think the Harmony has the same potential to become a design icon. Not a chance!
Breaking news : B&O has made available the smoked oak + brass and walnut + bronze covers for the Harmony... Strangely those covers were listed for €2000 in France where the now "classic" oak sells for €2500. Maybe a mistake.
Other news that maybe everybody already knew : my dealer is 100% ok to sell the sound center alone, B&O doesn't limit to a full set. So the 65" sound center is €8100 here, and you can either try to get a LG C9 for a bargain or already have an "updated" Harmony and get a LG CX... I'm becoming more and more interested in this modular TV concept
mbee: Breaking news : B&O has made available the smoked oak + brass and walnut + bronze covers for the Eclipse... Strangely those covers were listed for €2000 in France where the now "classic" oak sells for €2500. Maybe a mistake.
Breaking news : B&O has made available the smoked oak + brass and walnut + bronze covers for the Eclipse... Strangely those covers were listed for €2000 in France where the now "classic" oak sells for €2500. Maybe a mistake.
You mean Harmony? I saw some sketchy pics on Insta already. But no clear pics yet. Anyone with pics irl?
Thanks for the correction! Of course I meant Harmony, I just always have problems with B&O namings... At my dealer I was thinking "Horizon" instead of Harmony also...
No official photo on the dealer network... The news of the new covers is dated march 11, so it should'nt be long before we see the thing on insta/flickr...