ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
interesting
Butch, I'm not convinced.
Too long to list....
B & B. Twins
koning: B & B. Twins
You guys wrote the same thing
koning: You guys wrote the same thing
You mean butch1? I'm sure he made a quote mistake.
koning: interesting
Exactly! B&O beolab & beosound range aren't overpriced but underpriced. People say how expensive the beolab 3s are but actually judging from the fact that they are basically metal sculptures, they are not remotely overpriced. Overpriced for sonics for sure but for the amount of work put in right from the casting and manual labor involved. They are suitably priced. They couldn't go far enough because they only had a single range in the past so the sonics have to be compromised to sell it at a certain price range.
They should have the beoplay range of loudspeakers take over the sonics of the current beolab range and then push the core audio range to the limits. I mean speakers last way longer than freaking TVs for sure so.... I still don't get why their TVs should be more expensive than their loudspeakers when B&O is chiefly known for audio? The TVs perform for sure and the cost is much higher so B&O can definitely raise the performance of their audio range and capture the whole pro and audiophile crowd altogether, and make them modular just like how most people into audio like it. Just like different performance/price levels of wireless external plugin DACs for their loudspeakers etc.... All controlled from the computer/ proprietary media playing Apps or the option of an in house central multi-media server or just simple balanced input will be fine too.
Really when the public is getting increasingly tech savvy you think they would want to be "locked" into a brand like they use to?
I'm always amazed when people can speak more than one language properly :)
Only one and a half here.......
I should of lerned better LOL! (and yes, I do know it should be I should have...and 'learned')
Beovision 8-40, Beocentre 6-26, Beocentre 2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beo 5, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400, Beocom 6's, Beotalk 1200
Comrades..
Related to the demise of 'iconic' B&O products I was very sad to learn that the Beocentre 2 is also being, or has been deleted!!! Perhaps I've missed the outrage of posts on that topic. Thought it was relevant ot this post however.
I love the Beocentre 2. It is beautiful and very functional. One day I may well get a BS5..however presently the Beocentre2 does everything the BS5 does.. I imagine its just a matter of time though before the software for the beoport no longer works and I have to upgrade the itunes software.. and its all dead for NMUSIC and NRADIO. Friends still look at out Beocentre 2 at parties and and go wow... 'and look, all the track details are displayed from NRADIO... Kewl!!!!!!'
Henrik Toubro: I'm amazed how many of you would want to keep the 6000/6002 in the range. I understand that these are iconic, as well as the BL8000 and BS9000, but the design is 20 years old, and although the innards have been updated somewhat during these years, I have never been a fan of this speaker, (although I own a pair). I know B&O isn't a traditional hi-fi brand, like Sony, Philips etc., (and thank God for that), but they have to design new products to keep their line updated, keep peoples attention, attract new customers and make customers, who already own 6000's, want to buy new speakers, to keep making money on their loyal customer base.
I'm amazed how many of you would want to keep the 6000/6002 in the range. I understand that these are iconic, as well as the BL8000 and BS9000, but the design is 20 years old, and although the innards have been updated somewhat during these years, I have never been a fan of this speaker, (although I own a pair). I know B&O isn't a traditional hi-fi brand, like Sony, Philips etc., (and thank God for that), but they have to design new products to keep their line updated, keep peoples attention, attract new customers and make customers, who already own 6000's, want to buy new speakers, to keep making money on their loyal customer base.
But the problem is, that they have nothing to offer instead of the 6000's...
They offer better (and more expensive) speakers, yes. - And cheaper speakers. But nothing that would make the owners wanting to replace their 6000...I doubt that many BL 6000/8000 owners would want to replace them with BL 12's.IMO the BL 12 only look good on the wall next to a BV 12 (maybe next to a BV 11) - but definitely not on their stands in the middle of a room
Luckily it seems that they are still in the B&O product range. At least they're still on the B&O homepage
Spot on Steffen.
I think products can and should be replaced. "Replaced" that is, not just taken away or deleted.
I just hope that B&O isn't once again going to be too dependable on a third party manufacturer (this time Apple)
The new Beolab 12-1 on floor stand. For its size and compactness, a very impressive sounding little speaker. £2,000!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
The top..
Thanks for the pictures! Very nice looking.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Deleted. Duplicate.
Perhaps they are good, but they are definitely BUTT-Ugly. Nothing B&O there at all... I'm sorry.
What about the bass performance when you don't place them on the wall?
Tonker:Plastic I think. Listen to them first before you cringe. They were played hard and loud today and coped very well. Loads of bass negating the Beolab 11/2. Might now sell my 11 and get these mated to my 10-46. No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2, Beotime and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6.
As an ex owner of the 6000 i know what you mean. I'm trying to be positive. Add these subtle speakers to a 10-46 etc and for £2,000 you will transform the sound mind you
is the soundquality better?
Some vibrant frets, and a few subtle cool colours would do it more justice. The grey is the most negative thing about the whole thing to be fair.
Chris Townsend: The new Beolab 12-1 on floor stand. For its size and compactness, a very impressive sounding little speaker. £2,000!
I certainly didn't expect the 12-1 speakers to look so different from the 12-3 or 12-2. They look like they belong to an entirely different range. I hate to say this but something is seriously wrong with the marketing department. I told you the aluminum enclosures of the Lab6002s are expensive to make!
Please please relaunch the aluminum column range escalate the price to bring them up to date if you have to!
Gosh I really don't like where the core range is heading - all over the place!
I dunno... shouldn't beoplay label be used to launch items that are less impressively finished ? It just got a lot more confusing!
What I think they should do is delete the ALT range, make the core range truly luxurious. Move the Lab4s to the beoplay range. And introduce and entire home theater speakers only sub brand which the lab12 range will fit comfortably into.
I think there are way too many things going on with B&O right now. I sense desperation instead of a clear direction.
And were the column range ever remotely big to begin with? They were teeny tiny compared with so many proper floorstanders. They might not look good on the wall but getting those nicely finished speakers replaced are such no nos. And the aesthetic of the Beolab 12 range don't blend with any other ranges. Neither the old classic 4000,6000,8000 nor the ALT range.
Sigh I don't know what to say.
Raeuber: Tonker: Plastic I think. Listen to them first before you cringe. They were played hard and loud today and coped very well. Loads of bass negating the Beolab 11/2. Might now sell my 11 and get these mated to my 10-46. No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2, Beotime and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6. Thanks Chris, but if top and back are plastic, I would never replace my BL 6000 (rear speaker), even if they sound like Beolab 5! Then i'm delighted to tell you that the rear section is aluminium with a soft touch laquer - like the BeoLab 3's!
Raeuber: Tonker: Plastic I think. Listen to them first before you cringe. They were played hard and loud today and coped very well. Loads of bass negating the Beolab 11/2. Might now sell my 11 and get these mated to my 10-46. No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2, Beotime and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6. Thanks Chris, but if top and back are plastic, I would never replace my BL 6000 (rear speaker), even if they sound like Beolab 5!
Tonker: Plastic I think. Listen to them first before you cringe. They were played hard and loud today and coped very well. Loads of bass negating the Beolab 11/2. Might now sell my 11 and get these mated to my 10-46. No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2, Beotime and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6.
Plastic I think. Listen to them first before you cringe. They were played hard and loud today and coped very well. Loads of bass negating the Beolab 11/2. Might now sell my 11 and get these mated to my 10-46.
No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2, Beotime and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6.
Thanks Chris, but if top and back are plastic, I would never replace my BL 6000 (rear speaker), even if they sound like Beolab 5!
Wonderfulelectric - since they have removed the ALT from BeoLab 12-1, you must be very excited about this?!! Not sure why you are so down about ALT - it is one of my favourite features in the BeoLab range. I remember changing from BeoLab 7.1 to BeoLab 7.4 on my BeoVision 7-32"', the newly distributed sound just lit up the room in all seating areas, it was a fantastic upgrade. Listening to BeoLab 3's in a large room is a joy as the sound is so evenly distributed. And when I went from BeoLab 8000's to BeoLab 9's it sounded like i had removed earplugs the clarity was so great! Far from a gimmick - i think this is one of the greatest acoustic developments in recent times and i'm delighted that Bang & Olufsen gave it the platform it so deserved.
wonderfulelectric: Chris Townsend: The new Beolab 12-1 on floor stand. For its size and compactness, a very impressive sounding little speaker. £2,000! I certainly didn't expect the 12-1 speakers to look so different from the 12-3 or 12-2. They look like they belong to an entirely different range. I hate to say this but something is seriously wrong with the marketing department. I told you the aluminum enclosures of the Lab6002s are expensive to make! Please please relaunch the aluminum column range escalate the price to bring them up to date if you have to! Gosh I really don't like where the core range is heading - all over the place! I dunno... shouldn't beoplay label be used to launch items that are less impressively finished ? It just got a lot more confusing! What I think they should do is delete the ALT range, make the core range truly luxurious. Move the Lab4s to the beoplay range. And introduce and entire home theater speakers only sub brand which the lab12 range will fit comfortably into. I think there are way too many things going on with B&O right now. I sense desperation instead of a clear direction.
Chris Townsend:No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good.
I have visited the local store -and I have heard them. They sound good - but I still don't like the look
If good sound was the only criteria for buying a speaker, I might as well buy a pair of ugly wooden boxes from another brand...
But I won't... - then rather a pair of secondhand B&O from when they made good design...
wonderfulelectric:Sigh I don't know what to say.
Well, you have certainly used almost 30 posts and quite a few words to say that...
What I can say is the more people learn out of the CRT era fixation to have TVs stand on the floor or on top of some furniture and just slap them on the wall instead, the more they will be looking for wall mounted speakers as well - unless you have the elaborate sound setup settings the most recent B&O TVs apparently provide that allow you to freely adjust the sound with regards to speaker placement. I have currently the opposite problem, namely BL5000s on the wall and an old MX6000 between them. Physics dictate that the screen is about 60 cm closer to the viewing position than the speakers, and that is enough to make the setup sound a bit odd at first every time I decide to watch TV through the audio system (and no, I don't keep the TV speakers on at the same time).
--mika
tournedos:I have currently the opposite problem, namely BL5000s on the wall and an old MX6000 between them. Physics dictate that the screen is about 60 cm closer to the viewing position than the speakers, and that is enough to make the setup sound a bit odd at first every time I decide to watch TV through the audio system (and no, I don't keep the TV speakers on at the same time).
But if you connect the Beolabs to the TV you'll be able to adjust the sound through the 'Center balance' function...
Centre The Centre Balance function is a special Bang & Olufsen feature for TVs fitted with external speakers. The Centre balance function is only
Centre
available if you have connected external Power Link speakers to your MX TV.
The purpose of this adjustment is to ensure that the stereo sound can be given the enhanced effect which the external speakers are able to produce, and that mono sound, for example the voice of a person appearing on the TV screen, can be made to seem to originate from the screen itself.
The balance between the sound of external speakers and the built-in centre speakers can be adjusted within a range of 00 to 80.
Steffen: The purpose of this adjustment is to ensure that the stereo sound can be given the enhanced effect which the external speakers are able to produce, and that mono sound, for example the voice of a person appearing on the TV screen, can be made to seem to originate from the screen itself.
The purpose of this adjustment is to ensure that the stereo sound can be given the enhanced effect which the external speakers are able to
produce, and that mono sound, for example the voice of a person appearing on the TV screen, can be made to seem to originate from the screen itself.
Sounds something awfully artificial, but even if it wasn't, I'm not going to use it for a number of reasons:
MartinW: Raeuber: Tonker: Plastic I think. Listen to them first before you cringe. They were played hard and loud today and coped very well. Loads of bass negating the Beolab 11/2. Might now sell my 11 and get these mated to my 10-46. No more negativity about speakers until you've visited your local store :-)These are very good. Beovision 10-46, Belab 11, Beosound 8, Beocom 2, Beotime and a shed load of A8's and Form 2's. Oh and a Beo4 and 6. Thanks Chris, but if top and back are plastic, I would never replace my BL 6000 (rear speaker), even if they sound like Beolab 5! Then i'm delighted to tell you that the rear section is aluminium with a soft touch laquer - like the BeoLab 3's! Wonderfulelectric - since they have removed the ALT from BeoLab 12-1, you must be very excited about this?!! Not sure why you are so down about ALT - it is one of my favourite features in the BeoLab range. I remember changing from BeoLab 7.1 to BeoLab 7.4 on my BeoVision 7-32"', the newly distributed sound just lit up the room in all seating areas, it was a fantastic upgrade. Listening to BeoLab 3's in a large room is a joy as the sound is so evenly distributed. And when I went from BeoLab 8000's to BeoLab 9's it sounded like i had removed earplugs the clarity was so great! Far from a gimmick - i think this is one of the greatest acoustic developments in recent times and i'm delighted that Bang & Olufsen gave it the platform it so deserved.
ALT is definitely great! I own the Lab3s but it is expensive and hard to integrate with other drivers meaning the polar response in the treble is too wide to integrate with normal bass/midrange drivers plus all music aren't mastered on them.
Not liking the Lab12-1 a single bit. Not luxurious looking at all. I like the luxury look and feel of high end equipment but not the space they occupy! Most of them are too damn big and impractical in which I play a victim to. lol... It's the old column aluminum loudspeakers that can provide the most promise in terms of practicality and perceived luxury. With the BMR technology out, ALT lenses are kinda of like expensive gimmicks. You should research on BMR. Most of the hi fi press comment that the only flaw is the slightly opaque feel of the treble then again most of the models they commented are the cheap incarnations of BMR. The good versions are extremely realistic in the top range and have flat frequency response throughout the midrange and treble both on and off axis. Extremely hard thing to do! Even loudspeakers in the 100k range can never do and higher frequency response do start to narrow from 100 degrees off axis which is more ideal than say the ALT lenses. People do complain that the ALT lenses are artificial sounding which I agree but I blame it on the fact that recordings are not mastered on them more than the technology itself. ALT completely restricts dispersion in the vertical axis which do not really exist in nature and if you stick ALT speakers in sparsely furnished rooms they will sound horrible! Because there will be too much high frequency reflections. So basically BMR realizes B&O's vision more than ALT lenses can provide.
And regarding the LAT subwoofer technology. B&O might be the only manufacturer large scaled enough and at the same time suitably high end enough to bring it back from the dead. LAT subwoofers are basically Wilson Benesch's "infrasonic subwoofers" that are way cheaper and better. They feature the same dual balanced motor topology that will provide complete control and speed over the loudspeaker cones yet because of how the cones are oriented to oppose each other at the same time structural borne vibrations are already inherently cancelled out unlike the Wilson Benesch version where it still has to be dealt with with expensive enclosures. I think LAT subwoofer production might have been shut down because of the threat it imposes. Why such enthusiasm upon the release and then pulled off so rapidly from the market? LAT subwoofers marry B&O column loudspeaker perfectly because of its tubular design and the need for active loudspeaker implementation. Just imagine the 6000s producing the bass of the best of the best of high end mini bookshelf monitors without the prices and the spaces they usually take up. Double the price of the 6000s and implement quality BMR along with LAT subwoofer technologies and they will still present world class value.
The Beolab 8000s are inherently flawed in loudspeaker design. Like I said two bass/midrange drivers operating in tandem is far from ideal. And of course the Lab9s sound miles ahead. But do the lab 9s exude the same kind of luxury as normal loudspeakers in its price range? Not at all. The lab9s may perform the part but definitely don't look the part. The lenses look expensive to machine for sure but for the undiscerning eye...... Plastic + Metal is very common now. The cheapest B&W speakers have tons the similar look. Full metal designs are still rare and expensive.
http://www.d-s-t.com.au/LAT/
MartinW: wonderfulelectric: Chris Townsend: The new Beolab 12-1 on floor stand. For its size and compactness, a very impressive sounding little speaker. £2,000! I certainly didn't expect the 12-1 speakers to look so different from the 12-3 or 12-2. They look like they belong to an entirely different range. I hate to say this but something is seriously wrong with the marketing department. I told you the aluminum enclosures of the Lab6002s are expensive to make! Please please relaunch the aluminum column range escalate the price to bring them up to date if you have to! Gosh I really don't like where the core range is heading - all over the place! I dunno... shouldn't beoplay label be used to launch items that are less impressively finished ? It just got a lot more confusing! What I think they should do is delete the ALT range, make the core range truly luxurious. Move the Lab4s to the beoplay range. And introduce and entire home theater speakers only sub brand which the lab12 range will fit comfortably into. I think there are way too many things going on with B&O right now. I sense desperation instead of a clear direction. Just to be clear, the aluminium column range never left the product portfolio - despite 7 pages of posts there is only your sub dealer that thinks they did. They are very much still on sale - with the updated internals in the 6002/8002 range which made a significant improvement over the previously popular 6000/8000 range.
Yes I only found that out after confirming with several dealers. It's a long story basically I made prepayment thinking that I will get the A9s by mid Dec but was informed that I will only get it end of Feb when my dealer failed the delivery date and so I suggested that maybe I should just get the Lab6000s with the with free beoplay instead but he said that they have none of them in stock and that the factory has sent notifications to him that the Lab6000s have ceased production and same goes for the lab4000s- not ceased production but have to wait for months for delivery instead. And it was until only later that I thought of simply canceling my order of the A9 altogether that the stocks of Lab4000s suddenly become available. So I was dealing with a very dishonest sales rep and I am getting my Amex team to deal with them directly to get a full refund - he even threatened not to return my deposit. I mean like hello you failed the delivery dateline and you lied about many other things. Anyway his name is Alex from the Rolf Benz/ B&O dealership in the Bellavita mall in Taiwan Taipei. So if anybody wants to get anything from B&O in Taiwan, never look for that dishonest man! Actually somebody should get B&O to end the contract with the distributor and go direct instead. They refuse to stock up on items maybe due to cash flow problems but most importantly the sales reps lie! Bad quality of service as well!
I mean the A9s are not exactly made to order or remotely pricey for a quality hifi product but it's the dishonesty of the man the really put me off. I have already placed direct orders from the store in Madison Avenue in NYC and arranged for my own fedex pickup. Anyway the A9s are more than enough for a casual fun sound system for a small bedroom in my vacation home in Taiwan. And I am mainly attracted to the design in particular the fibonacci patterned grill, it is very avant-garde and at the same time quite an intelligent design touch. I am not remotely surprised by the fact that it won the IF at all, best of CES yes but definitely not surprised by the IF design win. I knew it was a clear winner from the get go. Nothing in terms of the design, construction, built was compromised in relation to the price. it would have been really nice if 24bit/196khz bit streaming is made possible though. 24bit is clearly here to stay and the sound quality is way less listening fatigue inducing than it's 16bit cousin.
If you are talking about the lack of support SACD, DVD-A integration or 32bit playback in the past or present it is totally understandable but 24bit quality is clearly here to stay and not that hard to purchase online anymore. High res downloads have been around for nearly a decade so what is B&O's excuse?
So the word I got from the store in store dealer in Taiwan is that the Lab6002 is going to be discontinued and that the dealership is one of the first to receive notice. It kind of make sense since there seems to be range of Lab12s in the similar price bracket as the Lab 6002s so... And B&O isn't exactly sub branding the Lab12 range.
Omigawsh guys . Oh that's so radical . I just adore that stuff it's so ya know !
Okay.... So the word is that the 4000s are going out of production too!
I really hope they will come up with a reference quality equivalent of the old range. The Beolab12s aren't cutting it for general applications like the old range does. Not all models of the lab 12 range will look or perform ideally freestanding. I will much prefer the designs of the lab12-2 and 13-3 to be circular.Way less generic that way. The current versions just look like expensive equivalents of current home cinema set speakers.
The Lab12-1s look way too generic as compared to the Lab4000s. It's like hello vertically orientated cheap sound bars! I do like the fact that there is no tweeter but just a 2inch semi full-range driver to operate the whole upper spectrum of the sound but BMRs will be much more ideal for that kind of application. With the coscone facing at the back? I will really like to see a frequency measurement graph for that kind of implementation. I would expect male voices to lack realism and body, unless that is the 2 incher is some miracle overachiever that can go down all the way to 100 hz flat with little compression. Otherwise there will be too much EQing involved. Crisp treble and big bass from small enclosures is so mid-fi and 1990s.
Aesthetics must match performance must match build must match price must match the consumer target group. That's the formula for success.
I know the old range is too expensive to produce and underperforming for the times but please produce the aesthetic equivalents please. At least they look good 360 degrees.
Wonderfulelectric,
But who's telling you these are going out of production? A lying dealer in Taiwan???
No other sources?