ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi all,
I am a first time poster who have enjoyed and learnt a lot from this forum for a while.
I have recently placed an order for a Harmony, 2xBL50, and 4xBL17.
I am also close to getting my hands on an OPPO udp-205 in good condition.
The equipment will soon arrive and I have a few questions related to the “recommended setup” for music and surround sound:
Music
I have ripped my CD collection (FLAC) and thousands of cd’s are on my NAS. I have a few high-res files on my NAS but I will mostly be listening to actual cd’s in the OPPO and ripped Flac files from my NAS (via DLNA).
I am also subscribing to Deezer Hifi.
How good is the DAC in the Harmony compared to the DAC in the OPPO? - do you recommend I use the dedicated audio out from the OPPO and connect it directly to the BL50 versus using the sound center in the Harmony ?
I have other B&O speakers in other rooms and I am using the Deezer/B&O app for the multi room ”experience”. The above mentioned questions are not related to multi-room - I would like to understand how I get the “best” audio quality when listening to music on the BL50 only.
Video/Surround
For video I will connect the OPPO to the Harmony via HDMI - I will be watching movies/concerts on the Harmony only.
Initially, I planned for a 7.0 type setup but I have seen posts where some of you recommend other setups.
My plan is of course to use the BL50 for front left/right.
Due to cosmetic reasons I plan to position the 4xBL17 above the listening position (angled down towards the listening position):
- one set at the “junction/corner” between the side wall/ceiling (side ceiling left/right)
- one set at the “junction/corner” between the back wall/ceiling behind the listening position (back ceiling left/right)
Due to the room layout it is difficult to add additional left/right wall speakers (ear level) but I could add another set of speakers on the back wall (left/right ear level). It could be an additional set of BL17 (I need to buy them before they are discontinued) or 2x Balance if they will support this type of setup in the future. Shape is another option....
Will an additional set of back speakers improve the surround experience noticeably?
I apologise in advance for the long first post!
PS. After having heard the BL90 I would have liked to go for those but they could not fit into the room. Furthermore, I don’t think they match up with the BL17 for surround.
Hej Luffe,
seems to be a nearly perfect setup you’ll have there.
I would not worry too much about additional speakers for that layout.
As long as the surround and the rear speakers are configured as such and angled proper downwards towards your main listening position, you should be good to go.
First get that 7.0 setup up and running - later on you could make some experiments with more speakers, if you feel like wanting more....although I am not sure that you would benefit much from that. You will be able to buy the 17’s further on for quite a long time (if not new, then secondhand).
Please consult the Technical Sound Guide (on the B&O website) for how to set up the speakers, how to configure etc.
With the OPPO 205 you will have a perfect companion for both movie and music listening.
As for pure (2 channel) music listening , I would use the seperate inputs of the BL50’s.
Please have a look on this post from Geoff Martin Sat, Aug 22 2020 9:56 AM here: https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/37467.aspx?PageIndex=2
where he is describing how he uses his BL90’s with the OPPO 105 and his BV.
Plenty of options there. Take your time to get it right.
And keep on posting your questions as you go along with the setup - there are several users here, who have similar setups and who definitely would like to share their experiences.
And....you don’t have to apologize for a long post.
It is that sort of posting, that makes it interesting to comment - with a lot of postings here, you often first have to guess, what the real concerns of the writers are.
And welcome to the Beoworld forum :-)P.S. Don’t forget....the forumusers love pictures of other users setups!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Thank you for the information. Do you also suggest using the OPPO connected directly to the BL50 when playing FLAC files from the NAS versus using the DAC in the harmony?
I know it is subjective but do you consider the OPPO DAC to be superior to the DAC in the Harmony sound center?
LuffeDK: Thank you for the information. Do you also suggest using the OPPO connected directly to the BL50 when playing FLAC files from the NAS versus using the DAC in the harmony? I know it is subjective but do you consider the OPPO DAC to be superior to the DAC in the Harmony sound center?
Yes, all these things are subjective.
The DAC in the OPPO might be different (due to different filters used), but that does not say anything about being better or worse.
If you have the option (like with the 50’s and the 90’s) you’d better go the direct way - the sound will be processed in the 50’s anyway.
With the direct connection you will skip a couple of conversion steps (D->A, A->D....)
If you would go via the Harmony (using the HDMI connection), you also might have to choose a 2 channel Speaker Group each time you want to listen to a CD/the FLAC files from the OPPO, when the default Group (for video-viewing/listening) is set to a 7.0 Speaker Group.
I am pretty sure, that the way Geoff Martin describes his use case is well thought-out - after all he knows his stuff and his gear.
N.B There is no problem in creating different Speaker Groups with different setups for the OPPO outputs.
Listen for a while....and choose what you prefer.
Thanks a lot - that makes sense
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
I used to own an Oppo Sonica DAC. I believe it uses the same DAC chip as what is one the 205. If it is, I would be surprised if it outperforms the DAC on the BL 50 for audio played through the BL 50. I sold the Sonica before I got my Core, but in my comparison it was Sonos Connect < Oppo Sonica = Apple AirPort Express 2 (yes!) = Bluesound Node 2i < Beosound Core. So given that, I would be really surprised if the Oppo's DAC was better than on the BL 50. My 2 cents worth.
B&O in my life 😊:
My intention is that both side left/right as well as rear left/right will be positioned where the wall meets the ceiling (my ceiling is flat and there is approximately 2,5 m from the floor to the ceiling in the TV room.
Hereby, all four BL17’s will be positioned above the listening position.
I am not sure if what your saying will work when all 4 speakers are positioned in the same level?
However, I could lower the 17’s on the back wall (bring them down to ear level but they will still be approx 2meters behind the listening position) or as mentioned in my initial post add a third set of BL17 speakers (or e.g. shape) in that specific position and them keep the initial 4 pcs BL17 where the wall meets the ceiling...
I am not sure if that will improve the experience
Thank you for the information. MM mentioned that passing through several AD converters might reduce SQ but I will definitely compare it once the setup is complete.
Thanks again
Do you recommend the 5.0.2 or the 7.0.0 setup for my specific setup?
As mentioned earlier, the 4xBL17’a are positioned in the following way:
-Same height & higher than the listening position-All speakers angled down towards the listening position
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
seethroughyou:so I could play DFF files on a memory stick.
LuffeDK: Do you recommend the 5.0.2 or the 7.0.0 setup for my specific setup? As mentioned earlier, the 4xBL17’a are positioned in the following way: -Same height & higher than the listening position-All speakers angled down towards the listening position
Probably the native 7.0.0.
However, there is nothing wrong in creating a 5.0.2 Speaker Group as well - you speaker locations should allow for that as I see it.
Then try both out with different material....in order to see, what fits you best.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in having both layouts in 2 different Speaker Groups.
It is one of the wonderfull things with the BSys4/TrueImage processing that you can test a lot of configurations and choose these with a couple of clicks on the remote.
Millemissen: LuffeDK: Do you recommend the 5.0.2 or the 7.0.0 setup for my specific setup? As mentioned earlier, the 4xBL17’a are positioned in the following way: -Same height & higher than the listening position-All speakers angled down towards the listening position Probably the native 7.0.0. However, there is nothing wrong in creating a 5.0.2 Speaker Group as well - you speaker locations should allow for that as I see it. Then try both out with different material....in order to see, what fits you best. There is absolutely nothing wrong in having both layouts in 2 different Speaker Groups. It is one of the wonderfull things with the BSys4/TrueImage processing that you can test a lot of configurations and choose these with a couple of clicks on the remote. MM
Thank you, I will try both options
Mikipidia: Like that, but with out the 3’a and the reara in your case would be 17’s too
Like that, but with out the 3’a and the reara in your case would be 17’s too
That’s quite a setup. How do the BL3 compare to the BL17 and do they make a noticeable difference in your setup?
Mikipidia:Noticable yes, but not as big as going from 5.0 to 7.0. They sort of sound like a giant speaker on the side now and the height effects are super smooth with the 3’s down low. It’s really hard to pin point where any speaker is blindfolded, but you can tell where sound is in time and space so to say. You’ll love your setup I am sure. The 3’s are a bit brighter and throw the trebble around more obviously which is excellent for where they are with the weird kink/corner i have in my livingroom there. But the bl17’s overall are much more capable, but also more directional as they don’t have an acoustic lens.
They sort of sound like a giant speaker on the side now and the height effects are super smooth with the 3’s down low. It’s really hard to pin point where any speaker is blindfolded, but you can tell where sound is in time and space so to say. You’ll love your setup I am sure.
The 3’s are a bit brighter and throw the trebble around more obviously which is excellent for where they are with the weird kink/corner i have in my livingroom there. But the bl17’s overall are much more capable, but also more directional as they don’t have an acoustic lens.
Great thanks. How many speakers/positions can be connected to the sound center of the Harmony?
20 something, 8 wired plus 3 from the tv and the rest via wisa, so too many one could say but you have a lot of options if you want to expand later
LuffeDK: Great thanks. How many speakers/positions can be connected to the sound center of the Harmony?
If you however with your question mean....how many ‘different combinations of these speakers’ aka Speaker Groups are possible, It’s a different answer:
The TSG says ‘ It is possible to assign up to 20 or 30 different Speaker Groups on the television (depending on the television model).’
So you will have loads of options to make different settings even with the exact same speakers positioning.
Millemissen: LuffeDK: Great thanks. How many speakers/positions can be connected to the sound center of the Harmony? If you however with your question mean....how many ‘different combinations of these speakers’ aka Speaker Groups are possible, It’s a different answer: The TSG says ‘ It is possible to assign up to 20 or 30 different Speaker Groups on the television (depending on the television model).’ So you will have loads of options to make different settings even with the exact same speakers positioning. MM
Good to know. Thank you for the support
The seller decided not to sell the Oppo 205 so I have just placed an order for the Panasonic dp-ub9000 instead. I was informed this model was “the replacement” and I have read good things about its audio quality, DAC, etc
Is anyone in this forum familiar with that specific player?
I am now in doubt if I have made a mistake as it seems the Panasonic cannot output both:
1 audio via HDMI to the Harmony for video
and
2 analogue out directly to the BL50 for music - e.g, for listening to cd’s.
Secondly, the BL50 does not have XLR inputs and I am not sure if it is a good idea/common practice to use an adapter from xlr to spdif?
Is it recommended to utilise both HDMI output’s (Audio out / video out) when connecting the Blu-ray player to the Harmony for video? What is the difference compared to using one HDMI only for both video and audio.
thanks
My post above was not written correctly.
I will try again....
2 audio out directly to the BL50 for music - e.g. for listening to cd’s. If I misunderstood this part and it is possible, what output from the Panasonic do you recommend I use for “feeding” the BL50’s?
On my Oppo 205 I never use the analog outputs (except the headphone jack)! I do not own the Panasonic DP-UB9000, so... second-hand news: I have found the people on this forum -- even the flamers -- to have pretty sound reasons for their opinions:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/now-that-oppo-is-dead-which-universal-player-is-a-good-one.6606/
I believe the Panasonic will be fine. I don't believe the statement that the Panasonic "cannot output both" [video & audio together (via HDMI) for the Harmony, and its audio-only optical and coaxial and separate audio-only HDMI outputs]. Does some review or the manual say that they are not all turned on at the same time? Also given that the BeoLab 50 is going to digitize it again for processing, there's no reason to feed it analog, although analog jacks are present on the DP-UB9000 if you must. The only downside for me is that reviews say that, although it will play DSD-encoded source material, it doesn't read SACD discs nor DVD-A discs; you would need a Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 or Sony UBP-X800 for that. Here's a "review", which is really just a list of features, but better than nothing if you have never seen the unit in the flesh:
https://www.techhive.com/article/3386558/panasonic-dp-ub9000-review.html
Hope this helps. Because I don't own one personally -- decided to stick with my Oppo despite considering newer alternatives -- hopefully somebody else can confirm my manual-reading.
How about keeping on searching for an OPPO.....sooner or later you find one.
In the meantime there are plenty of other things to ‘play with’ with your new setup.
Page 12 in the manual mention: “Audio is not output from HDMI OUT terminal” in the section describing when optical or coaxial is used.
https://help.panasonic.ca/viewing/ALL/DP-UB9000P/OI/TQBS0286/TQBS0286.pdf
Is coaxial or optical recommended when connecting it to the BL50?
Based on your input I will not benefit from the DAC in this unit which was praised by other owners ?
For video do you recommend I use both HDMI’s out or one only?
Page 11 describes audio is output in high resolution when the dedicated HDMI audio out is used but I don’t fully understand. I am also not sure how to connect - both into the sound center or one of them directly into the LG TV?
I don’t have any SACD or DVD-A discs so I am ok with the lack of this functionality.
I listen to a lot of cd’s and that is what I plan to use it for as well as for 4K blu-ray’s.
An alternative is of course to purchase a dedicated good quality CD player and use the Panasonic for blu-ray only. However, I prefer to have one unit only.
trackbeo: On my Oppo 205 I never use the analog outputs (except the headphone jack)! I do not own the Panasonic DP-UB9000, so... second-hand news: I have found the people on this forum -- even the flamers -- to have pretty sound reasons for their opinions: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/now-that-oppo-is-dead-which-universal-player-is-a-good-one.6606/ I believe the Panasonic will be fine. I don't believe the statement that the Panasonic "cannot output both" [video & audio together (via HDMI) for the Harmony, and its audio-only optical and coaxial and separate audio-only HDMI outputs]. Does some review or the manual say that they are not all turned on at the same time? Also given that the BeoLab 50 is going to digitize it again for processing, there's no reason to feed it analog, although analog jacks are present on the DP-UB9000 if you must. The only downside for me is that reviews say that, although it will play DSD-encoded source material, it doesn't read SACD discs nor DVD-A discs; you would need a Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 or Sony UBP-X800 for that. Here's a "review", which is really just a list of features, but better than nothing if you have never seen the unit in the flesh: https://www.techhive.com/article/3386558/panasonic-dp-ub9000-review.html Hope this helps. Because I don't own one personally -- decided to stick with my Oppo despite considering newer alternatives -- hopefully somebody else can confirm my manual-reading.
The 205 is in my opinion better for audio.
Compared to the 205 the Panasonic might be lacking in the audio department but in terms of video my guess is it is on pair with the 203
seethroughyou:What about a 203 instead of a 205?
I agree - it is not even installed yet.
I will keep my eyes open for a 205 but I would still like to know if the Panasonic can do what I would like from it.
Millemissen: How about keeping on searching for an OPPO.....sooner or later you find one. In the meantime there are plenty of other things to ‘play with’ with your new setup. MM
LuffeDK:Page 12 in the manual mention: “Audio is not output from HDMI OUT terminal” in the section describing when optical or coaxial is used.
I assumed they actually meant that audio would not flow from the separate HDMI(AUDIO) connector, not the main HDMI(VIDEO) connector -- because they say (page 14) "It is not possible to simultaneously output audio from both the amplifier connected to the HDMI AUDIO OUT terminal and the other amplifier connected to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT/Analog AUDIO OUT terminals." Now *that* makes sense to me, and would not affect your use.
But alas, if you go down to the settings menus (pages 31&33) they repeat exactly what you say, but then imply that it is your *option* to turn HDMI audio off. BUT if you go to the "no audio is coming out" troubleshooting, they make it very UN-clear again (page 40) because they imply that stereo output only turns off the audio from the main HDMI connector when you independently also choose "Settings for high clarity sound." Ugh.
The only way to know for sure is to own one and test it.
I agree, I need to test
Do you recommend I use both HDMI outputs (video & audio) and connect them to the Harmony?
I am not sure if that will improve audio quality for movies?
Secondly, what output do you recommend I use if it is possible to connect the Panasonic to the BL50 (optical or coaxial) ?
Thank you for the support !!
trackbeo: LuffeDK:Page 12 in the manual mention: “Audio is not output from HDMI OUT terminal” in the section describing when optical or coaxial is used.Right you are. Worse, they also say that Audio is not output from HDMI OUT terminal for any *analog* outputs, which appear immediately below (page 12)! Ick. There is simply no reason for that, neither circuitry nor HDMI licensing. I assumed they actually meant that audio would not flow from the separate HDMI(AUDIO) connector, not the main HDMI(VIDEO) connector -- because they say (page 14) "It is not possible to simultaneously output audio from both the amplifier connected to the HDMI AUDIO OUT terminal and the other amplifier connected to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT/Analog AUDIO OUT terminals." Now *that* makes sense to me, and would not affect your use. But alas, if you go down to the settings menus (pages 31&33) they repeat exactly what you say, but then imply that it is your *option* to turn HDMI audio off. BUT if you go to the "no audio is coming out" troubleshooting, they make it very UN-clear again (page 40) because they imply that stereo output only turns off the audio from the main HDMI connector when you independently also choose "Settings for high clarity sound." Ugh. The only way to know for sure is to own one and test it.
LuffeDK: I agree, I need to test Do you recommend I use both HDMI outputs (video & audio) and connect them to the Harmony? I am not sure if that will improve audio quality for movies? Secondly, what output do you recommend I use if it is possible to connect the Panasonic to the BL50 (optical or coaxial) ? Thank you for the support !!
Certainly there is no need to connect both HDMI’s.....I would not jnow how to do that either.
Using both HDMI’s is when you have to split the signal going into two seperate devices - one for picture and one for sound.
(Basicly that is what you did earlier on, when there was no (proper) passthrough to the display in the A/V receiver).
Best try both ways (optical/coax) out yourself....however, I bet you won’t notice the slightest difference (assuming the cables are ok).
I need to test as the manual confuses me. The manual mention: “You can enjoy richer sound by using the HDMI AUDIO OUT terminal. (Audio is output in high resolution.)”
It also mention that there will not be any audio sent from HDMI out if optical/coaxial out is used. As per previous posts I was recommended to connect the player directly to the BL50 but I am now not sure if it is possible.
Millemissen: LuffeDK: I agree, I need to test Do you recommend I use both HDMI outputs (video & audio) and connect them to the Harmony? I am not sure if that will improve audio quality for movies? Secondly, what output do you recommend I use if it is possible to connect the Panasonic to the BL50 (optical or coaxial) ? Thank you for the support !! Certainly there is no need to connect both HDMI’s.....I would not jnow how to do that either. Using both HDMI’s is when you have to split the signal going into two seperate devices - one for picture and one for sound. (Basicly that is what you did earlier on, when there was no (proper) passthrough to the display in the A/V receiver). Best try both ways (optical/coax) out yourself....however, I bet you won’t notice the slightest difference (assuming the cables are ok). MM
Hello again,
The Harmony, 2xBL50, and 4xBL17 have now been installed and it sounds very good. As per your recommendation, I am now experimenting with 7.0 vs 5.0.2.
I am not sure if I have made the setup correct so please comment if I am wrong.
For the 7.0 setup I name the BL17 above me left/right surround and I name the BL17 behind me for left/right back.
For the 5.0.2 setup I name the speakers above me for left/right heights but I am not sure what I should name the speakers behind me - left/right surround or left/right back? Also, does it make any difference?
After having made the setup I can see that the Harmony L/R is off. I assume that is ok as I use my BL50 for L/R front and the Harmony-C for centre front. Please let me know if that is correct or if you recommend to utilise the Harmony L/R channel as well.
thanks for your support.
Photos, Luffe! Photos!!
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Thanks a lot for quick answer. What is the difference between e.g. left back and surround back - will it change the sound?
Furthermore, is it correct that the Harmony L&R should be off and only center is on when enabling the 5.0.2 setup?