Beolab 50 are a nightmare.

bwest1000:

Please excuse my formatting, English is my first language.

My example of multiple TVs and iPads is that I own other products from other brands that are more reliable and dont cost as much as a new car. All of them are interacting and interfacing as described by the brand when sold. This is their webpage, " Meet a wireless loudspeaker that performs beyond reference in every listening scenario. " It doesn't do that. It doesn't do what it says it will do. It doesn't perform beyond reference in every scenario. It has serious issues connecting via its wireless format. You're agreeing with that. You're defending a defective feature of a $40,000 pair of speakers. This product touts itself as wireless in the first line of the overview of their product, right on their website under "Luxurious Beast". You are saying it is defective. The product has a defective feature. A $40,000 pair of speakers has a defective feature. A feature that remains defective. It is a primary selling point of a 40k pair of speakers. A defective feature is a primary selling point of a 40k pair of speakers. Something seems off about selling a 40k pair of speakers with that as the primary selling point but yet the feature is defective.

Hi bwest1000,

In the UK we have consumer protection laws to allow redress for products that are not as described. Do you have similar laws where you live? What efforts have you made to return the speakers and get a refund?

Lawrence

bwest1000:

Please excuse my formatting, English is my first language.

My example of multiple TVs and iPads is that I own other products from other brands that are more reliable and dont cost as much as a new car. All of them are interacting and interfacing as described by the brand when sold. This is their webpage, " Meet a wireless loudspeaker that performs beyond reference in every listening scenario. " It doesn't do that. It doesn't do what it says it will do. It doesn't perform beyond reference in every scenario. It has serious issues connecting via its wireless format. You're agreeing with that. You're defending a defective feature of a $40,000 pair of speakers. This product touts itself as wireless in the first line of the overview of their product, right on their website under "Luxurious Beast". You are saying it is defective. The product has a defective feature. A $40,000 pair of speakers has a defective feature. A feature that remains defective. It is a primary selling point of a 40k pair of speakers. A defective feature is a primary selling point of a 40k pair of speakers. Something seems off about selling a 40k pair of speakers with that as the primary selling point but yet the feature is defective.

Why do you write the same thing over about 30 times? I didn’t design the product. I have clearly, many times, stated that wisa is usually unreliable when the home environment is cluttered with signals.

This is not the speakers fault, and the protocol is an open standard for anyone to use. One could argue that 50 hz AC voltage is bad as well. It’s still not the speakers fault.

Anyway. As I’ve said and others to, multiple times as well, there seems to be issues in beopile7s case that is either a faulty speaker or something else.

Our knowledge about wisa comes from years of experience and over other devices as well. I haven’t had any bad experiences with wisa and beolab 50 as I simply refuse to even try it. I could listen to FM radio on my Mercedes as well but I wouldn’t accept the audio quality because fm is simply not high fidelity.

So please just stop with the metaphors and angryness.

As far as I understand wisa is used in his setup and for me this gave me many weird issues with other products. When I stopped using it everything went better. However, it did work when I disabled 5 ghz WiFi and as that is not a solution for me I had a choice to make.

I believe that the problems would be less pronounced if wisa wasn’t part of the picture simply because it is more hard to get that working perfectly. But also according to beopile7 his wisa setup is actually working well. And I know other people who also use it without many issues.

In beolab 50, when using wisa there is many features in the optimization that is disabled simply because that input limits it. It is also limited by being 48 kHz tops in the B&O implementation of wisa (wireless powerlink). This is to not stress the bandwidth too much I think.

I have no idea how well wisa works but as I’ve now written many many times over, it usually is the cause of issues. However the speaker is bad or not I don’t know. He’s speaker might very well be faulty. It might be a bad software or something else as well. The problem is probably not impossible to solve but just throwing stones at each other’s does not help anyone.

Regarding how the speakers is marketed. Wireless I believe is a bit unpractical to market it as as it simply does not even have built in capabilities for wireless protocols without using a host device for playback.

Such as a B&O tv, an audio streamer such as the Beosound core or anything else. With that in the solution then the speakers in tandem with that decide are “wireless” but that connection between the streamer and speaker is most certainly cabled for many reasons. Just like an Apple TV is “wireless” you still have the hdmi cable to the TV. But the content is transmitted wirelessly perhaps from a router and such. See my point?

Just to remove any doubt... I live in a house in the forest. An IP scan shows no other network but mine. My neighbours live down the lane, some way away. I have my wireless router, an S3, BV11, Apple TV 4, Chromecast and Macbook Air, Ipad mini 4 and Iphone SE. Oh... and a pair of BL50's! 

This thread is still arguing the toss about wireless comms when I just don't see that as a problem. I am well aware of the numerous switchings required to go from wired music system to wireless TV sound. And it is ridiculous. But that is not the question?... When they are wired and the input set to auto there is no wireless input. Additionally the TV wireless TX id set to off. So why are you still going off on one about wireless comms?

I'll try put it another way... Occasionally these speakers drift off their reality and live elsewhere. For no explicable reason they decide to go deaf. They can hear no instructions. They heard everything the day before but today has a "y" in it so no! 

And no amount of trying will help. It needs a Windows 95 reboot. 

Personally, for any money, in 2020 that is not acceptable?

Beofile7:

Just to remove any doubt... I live in a house in the forest. An IP scan shows no other network but mine. My neighbours live down the lane, some way away. I have my wireless router, an S3, BV11, Apple TV 4, Chromecast and Macbook Air, Ipad mini 4 and Iphone SE. Oh... and a pair of BL50's! 

This thread is still arguing the toss about wireless comms when I just don't see that as a problem. I am well aware of the numerous switchings required to go from wired music system to wireless TV sound. And it is ridiculous. But that is not the question?... When they are wired and the input set to auto there is no wireless input. Additionally the TV wireless TX id set to off. So why are you still going off on one about wireless comms?

I'll try put it another way... Occasionally these speakers drift off their reality and live elsewhere. For no explicable reason they decide to go deaf. They can hear no instructions. They heard everything the day before but today has a "y" in it so no! 

And no amount of trying will help. It needs a Windows 95 reboot. 

Personally, for any money, in 2020 that is not acceptable?

As I have said also numerous times, the issues you are experiencing seem limited to your speakers and if so it is probably a faulty hardware somewhere in one or both of them. Have you talked with B&O before calling them just a nightmare? Have they done any diagnosis on them? There is a feature to send the log files in from the web interface of the master speaker, using that they probably easily see what the issue might be. 

As far as wireless goes, it is usually a common reason for glitches to appear. Thats why we have been talking about it. It might not be the case here but it still might be. I do not know. You seemingly refuse to try a solution without it so it is very hard to diagnose further.. But wisa at least for me and many others caused intermittent issues with not being able to turn on or off speakers. In my case just one speaker would turn on at times or both, or one fail at a itme or another, or cause the TV to freeze etc. So many weird glitches for a cable less.

I urge you to let B&O take a look at your speakers, and also to look over your installation and try them perhaps with powerlink cabled instead. The BeoSystem you can connect hopefully as well but I don't know exactly how. With the ML gateway perhaps or some other solution that makes the devices come together maybe. Anyway I will drop my interest and time for this thread as everything I say is taken with angryness instead as of help.

Good luck! 

For the price of the speaker, your B&O dealer (or the nearest B&O dealer) should send out someone to investigate the issue you are having.

Also, Mikipedia has a good point a few posts back. The speakers don't switch automatically from wired to WiSa or vice versa after one has been selected. I'd look more closely to what Mikipedia said.

I hope you get the "beasts" working!

Beofile7:

Just to remove any doubt... I live in a house in the forest. An IP scan shows no other network but mine. My neighbours live down the lane, some way away. I have my wireless router, an S3, BV11, Apple TV 4, Chromecast and Macbook Air, Ipad mini 4 and Iphone SE. Oh... and a pair of BL50's!

This thread is still arguing the toss about wireless comms when I just don't see that as a problem. I am well aware of the numerous switchings required to go from wired music system to wireless TV sound. And it is ridiculous. But that is not the question?... When they are wired and the input set to auto there is no wireless input. Additionally the TV wireless TX id set to off. So why are you still going off on one about wireless comms?

I'll try put it another way... Occasionally these speakers drift off their reality and live elsewhere. For no explicable reason they decide to go deaf. They can hear no instructions. They heard everything the day before but today has a "y" in it so no!

And no amount of trying will help. It needs a Windows 95 reboot.

Personally, for any money, in 2020 that is not acceptable?

Hej Mods. Please delete this entire thread? It is now just adding to my nightmare! 

Well if you want help, email me: mikipedi4@gmail.com and i’ll see what i can do for you

late to the discussion, but still need to add my experience. Initially i was using an Eclipse, with a pair of 18’s and and 19. The 50’s were added later. Wireless connectivity was important to me, as I didn’t want cables running through the living room (or rather my wife didn’t). For me the WISA technical solution, worked fine, especially the 96 Khz / 24 bit sampling rate and the dedicated 5ghz standalone wireless connection.

For watching streamed video, the setup is now, unsurprisingly, 50’s providing Front left and right, the Eclipse, centre, the 18’s rear left and right, and the 19 the base. The sound quality is superb, the latency is excellent. No issues at all. Occasionally, i have to reboot the system, possibly once a month, but no more often. It is annoying when it happens, but certainly happens no more than any of the other kit i have in the house.

However, I wasn't convinced about the hi-fidelity streaming via the eclipse to the 50’s, and whether I was extracting the best quality available from the source (Deezer hifi and Tidal) . I was finding the Chromecast built-in on the eclipse particularly problematic. Consequently, started researching availability of WISA standard equipped pre-amp/DAC’s and came across the PRIMARE PRE35 PRISMA. It only has two channel WISA connectivity, but for Hi-fidelity listening from stereo sources, that is all i needed.

I have to select “Wireless powerlink” on the app, when using the PRIMARE which finds the speakers every time. I have to reselect select Auto when finished listening and wanting to use the TV. Then turn the TV off and on again so that the Eclipse finds the 50’s again, which is a little irritating. But it works every time.

i was so impressed with the sound quality, i decided to have a vinyl renaissance. Consequently, the set up now includes a Rega planar 3 with Exact cartridge / Rega NEO TT PSU and Rega Fono phono stage hard wired to the PRIMARE PRE35, connected to the 50’s via WISA link. I can hear every nuance, include audible differences from platter mat changes and sub platter upgrades. One major advantage of the WISA link is that that the turntable is the other side of the room to the speakers ensuring no interference from the potential bass output of the speakers on the turntable 

I am sure there are hard core audiophiles having an apoplectic fit on the above, but WISA and the BEOLAB speakers, provided a fantastic neat solution.  

Mumbles2021:

However, I wasn't convinced about the hi-fidelity streaming via the eclipse to the 50’s, and whether I was extracting the best quality available from the source (Deezer hifi and Tidal) . I was finding the Chromecast built-in on the eclipse particularly problematic. Consequently, started researching availability of WISA standard equipped pre-amp/DAC’s and came across the PRIMARE PRE35 PRISMA. It only has two channel WISA connectivity, but for Hi-fidelity listening from stereo sources, that is all i needed.

I have to select “Wireless powerlink” on the app, when using the PRIMARE which finds the speakers every time. I have to reselect select Auto when finished listening and wanting to use the TV. Then turn the TV off and on again so that the Eclipse finds the 50’s again, which is a little irritating. But it works every time.

I am unsure if you are aware or not but in the BeoApp, and selecting BL50 (for me its 90 - but assume its the same), and selecting:-

" . . . " then  "product settings" >> "Configure" >> "Input"  >> " . . . "

brings up in hard white font all the sound input channels.

Wireless Powerlink is top, and is underlined.

The Powerlink, USB, Optical, SPDif, line in etc...

 

These can be set in order of priority by sliding up and down the list. Higher the need....lower the priority. I have XLR at top priority but most infrequent used

Powerlink, often the most used, placed last.  I find this helps the BL90s select over to the required sound more quickly (and prescribes a measure of "automation" when switching between my XLR streamer or the Eclipse.

I believe you should also be able to set the detection threshold and the time to standby with no signal. Again, this will help with automation of switching from one source to another. (but it is not as instantaneous as the NL/Masterlink systems).

This may help?

 

Addendum.

The BeoApp does not allow you to set Detect Threshold or Time-out it seems?

The BL90 app does (but no longer available in i-store)

However, direct internet access to the in-speaker app does allow these settings ( e.g. http://192.168.212.xxx/#/ )

Mumbles2021:

late to the discussion, but still need to add my experience. Initially i was using an Eclipse, with a pair of 18’s and and 19. The 50’s were added later. Wireless connectivity was important to me, as I didn’t want cables running through the living room (or rather my wife didn’t). For me the WISA technical solution, worked fine, especially the 96 Khz / 24 bit sampling rate and the dedicated 5ghz standalone wireless connection.

For watching streamed video, the setup is now, unsurprisingly, 50’s providing Front left and right, the Eclipse, centre, the 18’s rear left and right, and the 19 the base. The sound quality is superb, the latency is excellent. No issues at all. Occasionally, i have to reboot the system, possibly once a month, but no more often. It is annoying when it happens, but certainly happens no more than any of the other kit i have in the house.

However, I wasn't convinced about the hi-fidelity streaming via the eclipse to the 50’s, and whether I was extracting the best quality available from the source (Deezer hifi and Tidal) . I was finding the Chromecast built-in on the eclipse particularly problematic. Consequently, started researching availability of WISA standard equipped pre-amp/DAC’s and came across the PRIMARE PRE35 PRISMA. It only has two channel WISA connectivity, but for Hi-fidelity listening from stereo sources, that is all i needed.

I have to select “Wireless powerlink” on the app, when using the PRIMARE which finds the speakers every time. I have to reselect select Auto when finished listening and wanting to use the TV. Then turn the TV off and on again so that the Eclipse finds the 50’s again, which is a little irritating. But it works every time.

i was so impressed with the sound quality, i decided to have a vinyl renaissance. Consequently, the set up now includes a Rega planar 3 with Exact cartridge / Rega NEO TT PSU and Rega Fono phono stage hard wired to the PRIMARE PRE35, connected to the 50’s via WISA link. I can hear every nuance, include audible differences from platter mat changes and sub platter upgrades. One major advantage of the WISA link is that that the turntable is the other side of the room to the speakers ensuring no interference from the potential bass output of the speakers on the turntable

I am sure there are hard core audiophiles having an apoplectic fit on the above, but WISA and the BEOLAB speakers, provided a fantastic neat solution.

I don’t remember exactly but I recall Geoff Martin saying that the 50s does not use their complete computing power in wisa mode. Do you have a DLP connection between the two or are they running without any cables (except power)?

Not sure if they keep track of themselves over wifi but maybe it has been improved in newer firmware generations.

Honest truth is i dont know. However, the source for them is a Rega Planar 3 / Rega Fono Mk3 phone stage to a PRIMARE PRE 35 Prisma, Pre-amp. I’m not really too interest n the speakers manipulating the signal, as long as what is converted from Analogue to digital (24 bit / 96 kHz) at the Pre-amp end is converted faithfully and without any loss at the BEOLAB 50 end. I have to say, the sound quality is astonishing. Sat listening to Crime of the Century this morning, right in the sweet spot, and was blown away.

Mumbles2021:

For watching streamed video, the setup is now, unsurprisingly, 50’s providing Front left and right, the Eclipse, centre, the 18’s rear left and right, and the 19 the base.

Why donyou still have the 19 in that setup? What do you have it set to? And is the bass management turned on? If so, does the bl19 produce anything at all?

Maybe set it to rear sub if you want more oomph from the rear, but otherwise the 50’s will handle all the bass as they are a lot more capable of bass than the bl19 is

I dont use the 19 or the 18’s when listening to Music.. Only the 50’s. As you suggested the 19, is sited at the back on my room to supplement the 18’s when watching Movies in 5.1 on the Eclipse. On its configuration it does make a difference. Admittedly, completely superfluous otherwise 

You should avoid products that are "upgradeable". 

Nowadays upgradable means to fix bugs !!! 

If it has been well designed why should you upgrade speakers (The BL5 is already equipped with DSP and is not upgradeable) ???  

It's not only a B&O problem...

Even so with 5.1 or surround sources. Check your settings just in case. It may turn on but it might just sit their idle doing nothing. 50’s go lower and louder than a 19 so by default adding a 19 would do absolutely nothing unless you make very specific sound settings, just fyi.

A couple of cents worth of opinion.

 

I have no idea why the BL50s seem to have this type of problem? However, some comments to chew on.

1. I believe wired source to these loudspeakers "should" be the best - especially as PL is analogue.

2. I keep my BL90s in wired and have no issues. Is this a BL50 and not a BL90 problem??

3. I can cite lots of problems with very well established products that have simple telegraphic issues:-

3a. Auralic suggest that you feed their Aries G2 Streamer wirelessly for best sound (digital, no interference) rather than by wire.

3b. I find it impossible to stream Qobuz, but can do amazon HD and tidal ok. Auralic say a very good Router/Modem is required for thier systems to work properly. Im not so sure.

3c. I often Bluetooth an Astell & Kern DAP to E8 earphones. Totally useless when moving. But then again - its the same with all earphones this way with the DAP

3d. When I stream Astell & Kern DAP to a stationary loudspeaker (Essence or Beoplay P2, P6, A6) it is perfect. Thus A&K are useless for BT transmission when moving (how useless is that?0

 

So maybe...just maybe this is a transmission code issue? Regardless, one could argue it should work.....but then the examples above show other high-end gear does not always work as expected. 

Go to wired connection on the BL50s. That should solve most of the issues.