ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ: symmes: Funny, I thought WE and PaulW were the same person, and this part of the game got a bit weird and out of control. Guess what...
symmes: Funny, I thought WE and PaulW were the same person, and this part of the game got a bit weird and out of control.
Funny, I thought WE and PaulW were the same person, and this part of the game got a bit weird and out of control.
Guess what...
Who is PaulW. I have yet to exchange words with him... Maybe that's why you guys think we are the same person.
I have only been on this site for two years, sadly the warm and friendly spirit that was when I found the site is gone, due to new arrogant comments of the same people over and over again. I have not been on the site as much as I used to, because it is not really nice anymore.
I really hope that these people who has this bad attitude really can open their eyes and see what they do - they destroy this nice place. Please get a grip, grow up or what ever needed and stop this idiocy, it is just sad. Often the biggest a**** on forums are very small and insecure people IRL and needs the internet to get out their frustration. Sadly.
I really want to point out that Im not naming names so if you feel like a target of this, please dont yell at me, think about your appearance instead.
John: hfat: Dear Beoworlders, When I got to know Beoworld, it was a forum gathering B&O enthusiasts, trying to be as helpful as possible to each other and discussing about their experiences with B&O stuff. I learned a lot that helped me making a giant leap from the old Avant times to new BV12 with some third party digital sources and HDMI driven link room devices. As my knowledge grew, I tried to be as helpful as possible, spending sometimes hours or days helping others to solve their problems. Recently the number posting, where some members present their opinion on everthing, whether they have personal experience or not, very aggressively. Beowold tends to be like any other AV-forum, I cannot feel the old Beowold spirit anymore. So I have decided to retire from Beoworld for a while and get back from time to time to see how things develope. regards hfat Forums generally, can be fun and helpful places for people who share an interest to hang out and discuss topics of mutual interest and generally help and advise each other. Unfortunately, I think the distance and anonymity involved of cyber space 'virtual environments' and the necessary text based communication, means that misunderstandings can easily arise, and tempers get frayed from time to time. Also, particularly with audiophiles, one has this almost primal distinction between those who believe in comprehensive measurement by properly tertiary trained people, in conjunction with properly set up and conducted ABX blind testing, as a prerequisite to objective assessment and judgement about audio products, and those of a much more popular contemporary strain, who are happy to believe in pseudo science, insupportable marketing claims and sighted A/B's of products with no clear reference to any sort of musical or acoustical standard, as the de facto method of making (necessarily subjective) assessments about audio and audio products. This latter approach seems very prevalent in the passive speaker, separates component market, where mixing and matching at a consumer level, with an ongoing 'need' for 'upgrades' is seemingly part and parcel of the consumer HiFi industry - particularly the so called high end - where profit via marketing to the oft gullible and obsessive audiophile seems to come before science, logic, reason and common sense. I started out in HiFi as a means to an end - having high quality sound reproduction in the home vis a vis my musical interest and training - music has been a part of my life since I was a young child. However, I also found it very easy to get caught up in the subjective hype that is so very prevalent in the audiophile scene, and the arguments that go on at a forum level with the objective v's subjective viewpoint being almost the most contentious one, along with so called 'brand wars'. I've had my share of unpleasant times on forums accordingly; being told that I was either deaf or needed to be taught how to listen, along with some other unmentionable expletives when I dared openly criticise the Naim products that I had bought new at great expense, only to later find that ES Sony did a better job - at much less cost and of course with nothing like the reputation and hype of Naim. In my recent decision to purchase some new BeoLab 9's, I discussed my thoughts on another forum run by a maker of active speakers also, (and whose speakers I contemplated purchasing for a time) and found the technologies that B&O can bring to the table, denigrated and ridiculed - somewhat upsetting to say the least - as I have the highest respect for B&O's R&D and the quality of their staff re their qualifications and experience. Unfortunately this is oft the way of forums; it was once said that opinions are free, and everyone has one, but clearly, to anyone with common sense and reason, not all opinions are equal - despite the fact that the internet allows anyone (trained and qualified or not) to express an opinion, that they then feel should be awarded the same recognition as everyone else. I'd argue that an engineer, or someone with a PHd behind them is in a vastly more experienced and credible situation to offer a source of objective and factual information than an amateur such as myself commenting on something that interests me, just because I have access to the internet and an opinion. Nonetheless, it seems a reality that wherever subjectivists and objectivists gather on forums, there will be arguments unfortunately. Personally, having been almost dragged into the dubious world of the audiophool with my Naim experience, my colours are firmly nailed to the mast of science and reason, and I have as little to do with the extremes of audiophile dis-ease, i.e. audiophillia, as possible, which includes avoiding oft pointless and circular arguments with them. I'm also of the opinion that BeoWorld is pretty much rooted in science, logic, reason and objectivity, so it's probably fair to say the more extreme audiophile subjective viewpoints don't really go down so well. As to boring people; well, I'm probably guilty perhaps, and would sincerely apologise if members have thought that of my writing - I tend to write quite long posts - however I do so because I'm mostly either too lazy or to short of time to do a lot of editing - most of my writing is 'off the cuff' so to speak, - but also I do try and explain things as much as possible, even if I end up repeating myself or going in to too much detail, as I'm all to well aware how misunderstandings can easily arise with written text, so at the risk of being a bit loquacious or boring perhaps with it, I hope to make my points as clear as possible and avoid ambiguity wherever possible. On the whole though, all things considered, this is a fabulous forum IMHO - not just for B&O, but because of the common sense, wisdom and knowledge that is found and expressed; mostly free of the rancour and bellicose attitude that sadly permeates many audiophile forums on a reasonably regular basis. Long may BeoWorld continue! Kind regards John...
hfat: Dear Beoworlders, When I got to know Beoworld, it was a forum gathering B&O enthusiasts, trying to be as helpful as possible to each other and discussing about their experiences with B&O stuff. I learned a lot that helped me making a giant leap from the old Avant times to new BV12 with some third party digital sources and HDMI driven link room devices. As my knowledge grew, I tried to be as helpful as possible, spending sometimes hours or days helping others to solve their problems. Recently the number posting, where some members present their opinion on everthing, whether they have personal experience or not, very aggressively. Beowold tends to be like any other AV-forum, I cannot feel the old Beowold spirit anymore. So I have decided to retire from Beoworld for a while and get back from time to time to see how things develope. regards hfat
Dear Beoworlders,
When I got to know Beoworld, it was a forum gathering B&O enthusiasts, trying to be as helpful as possible to each other and discussing about their experiences with B&O stuff. I learned a lot that helped me making a giant leap from the old Avant times to new BV12 with some third party digital sources and HDMI driven link room devices.
As my knowledge grew, I tried to be as helpful as possible, spending sometimes hours or days helping others to solve their problems.
Recently the number posting, where some members present their opinion on everthing, whether they have personal experience or not, very aggressively. Beowold tends to be like any other AV-forum, I cannot feel the old Beowold spirit anymore.
So I have decided to retire from Beoworld for a while and get back from time to time to see how things develope.
regards
hfat
Forums generally, can be fun and helpful places for people who share an interest to hang out and discuss topics of mutual interest and generally help and advise each other.
Unfortunately, I think the distance and anonymity involved of cyber space 'virtual environments' and the necessary text based communication, means that misunderstandings can easily arise, and tempers get frayed from time to time.
Also, particularly with audiophiles, one has this almost primal distinction between those who believe in comprehensive measurement by properly tertiary trained people, in conjunction with properly set up and conducted ABX blind testing, as a prerequisite to objective assessment and judgement about audio products, and those of a much more popular contemporary strain, who are happy to believe in pseudo science, insupportable marketing claims and sighted A/B's of products with no clear reference to any sort of musical or acoustical standard, as the de facto method of making (necessarily subjective) assessments about audio and audio products.
This latter approach seems very prevalent in the passive speaker, separates component market, where mixing and matching at a consumer level, with an ongoing 'need' for 'upgrades' is seemingly part and parcel of the consumer HiFi industry - particularly the so called high end - where profit via marketing to the oft gullible and obsessive audiophile seems to come before science, logic, reason and common sense.
I started out in HiFi as a means to an end - having high quality sound reproduction in the home vis a vis my musical interest and training - music has been a part of my life since I was a young child. However, I also found it very easy to get caught up in the subjective hype that is so very prevalent in the audiophile scene, and the arguments that go on at a forum level with the objective v's subjective viewpoint being almost the most contentious one, along with so called 'brand wars'.
I've had my share of unpleasant times on forums accordingly; being told that I was either deaf or needed to be taught how to listen, along with some other unmentionable expletives when I dared openly criticise the Naim products that I had bought new at great expense, only to later find that ES Sony did a better job - at much less cost and of course with nothing like the reputation and hype of Naim.
In my recent decision to purchase some new BeoLab 9's, I discussed my thoughts on another forum run by a maker of active speakers also, (and whose speakers I contemplated purchasing for a time) and found the technologies that B&O can bring to the table, denigrated and ridiculed - somewhat upsetting to say the least - as I have the highest respect for B&O's R&D and the quality of their staff re their qualifications and experience.
Unfortunately this is oft the way of forums; it was once said that opinions are free, and everyone has one, but clearly, to anyone with common sense and reason, not all opinions are equal - despite the fact that the internet allows anyone (trained and qualified or not) to express an opinion, that they then feel should be awarded the same recognition as everyone else.
I'd argue that an engineer, or someone with a PHd behind them is in a vastly more experienced and credible situation to offer a source of objective and factual information than an amateur such as myself commenting on something that interests me, just because I have access to the internet and an opinion.
Nonetheless, it seems a reality that wherever subjectivists and objectivists gather on forums, there will be arguments unfortunately. Personally, having been almost dragged into the dubious world of the audiophool with my Naim experience, my colours are firmly nailed to the mast of science and reason, and I have as little to do with the extremes of audiophile dis-ease, i.e. audiophillia, as possible, which includes avoiding oft pointless and circular arguments with them.
I'm also of the opinion that BeoWorld is pretty much rooted in science, logic, reason and objectivity, so it's probably fair to say the more extreme audiophile subjective viewpoints don't really go down so well.
As to boring people; well, I'm probably guilty perhaps, and would sincerely apologise if members have thought that of my writing - I tend to write quite long posts - however I do so because I'm mostly either too lazy or to short of time to do a lot of editing - most of my writing is 'off the cuff' so to speak, - but also I do try and explain things as much as possible, even if I end up repeating myself or going in to too much detail, as I'm all to well aware how misunderstandings can easily arise with written text, so at the risk of being a bit loquacious or boring perhaps with it, I hope to make my points as clear as possible and avoid ambiguity wherever possible.
On the whole though, all things considered, this is a fabulous forum IMHO - not just for B&O, but because of the common sense, wisdom and knowledge that is found and expressed; mostly free of the rancour and bellicose attitude that sadly permeates many audiophile forums on a reasonably regular basis.
Long may BeoWorld continue!
Kind regards
John...
I must say that that is quite a long and thoughtful post.
Agreed Sony ES, Marantz and Pioneer Tad division are definitely very respectable in their own right. Offers build quality, outstanding technical performance etc... However, the fact of the matter is taste is subjective at least in terms of Audio since it is almost like an art form. Even with the case of the Lab9s.... Not to rain on your parade or anything but it is definitely not pro quality. B&O loudspeakers are known to be voiced in a certain way which derail from absolute neutrality. I call it the house sound. Regarding active loudspeaker implementations, there are an increasingly number of of brands who have jumped on the bandwagon not least because it provides more convenience for the consumers but the designers have more control over the outcome of the loudspeaker performance and not to mention cost savings passed on to the purchasers as well by saving them the cost of expensive cables, separate amplifiers etc...
And FYI increasingly more audiophiles are into active loudspeakers with DSP room correction so... let's not generalize.
Electrified: Guy:Mine too - and is it just me that thinks WE and E are one and the same person? A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ... Please do.
Guy:Mine too - and is it just me that thinks WE and E are one and the same person? A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ...
A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ...
Please do.
Done. I can confirm that WE and E aren't posting from the same (even close) IP address. I will also inform that this alone is completely inadequate evidence against the above hypothesis (if they posted from the same IP address, you would have some basis to say that they might be the same person).
As a personal statement, I can tell that I am 100% tired about you two destroying every single thread you get into. You, E, are equally responsible for that - I haven't noticed WE arguing by himself, even though there seem to be quite a few people disagreeing with his posts. Overloads of bullshit and corrections of bullshit are, in this quantity, both bullshit. I don't think I'm alone if I admit I haven't read one quarter of it lately, so your corrections are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
--mika
vikinger: How come, right at this moment, WE is shown as a founder member with 'f' below avatar? Graham
How come, right at this moment, WE is shown as a founder member with 'f' below avatar?
Graham
Just searched the archive forum, and found that WE is, indeed, a founder member.
Here is an exercise. Search the Archive on 'wonderfulelectric' and look at a sample of his postings.
Do the same for 'Electrified'.
Has anything changed in their types of posting? Note that in the archive they never, ever, posted in the same thread.
As Mika says, Electrified's rebuttals are as much of the problem as some of WE's fantasy postings. Just ignore each other as you did on the old site and that will be a major step forward.
Okay gosh... You guys... Are investing a ton of time into finding ways ignoring me.... Which is kinda acknowledging me in a way. Going through all the trouble and searching through the archives? I don't even know how to do that. And funny thing nobody seem to me responding two my most recent threads. I thought you know since I was derailing other people's threads why not I start my own threads.... And some of you guys who enjoys attacking my bullshit can do it through there.
Besides for most of the threads I posted in I had the original intention of being of help to the original thread poster until that is....
wonderfulelectric: Going through all the trouble and searching through the archives? I don't even know how to do that
Top right button next to the Prize Draw.
Oh somebody certainly know his way around the site.
I am afraid I might cringe at what I used to post when I was a teen. Totally not going that route.
tournedos:Done. I can confirm that WE and E aren't posting from the same (even close) IP address. I will also inform that this alone is completely inadequate evidence against the above hypothesis (if they posted from the same IP address, you would have some basis to say that they might be the same person).
Thank you very much!
I have always changing IP adresses, every 24 hours, so this is not necessarily a valid argument.
Jacques
chartz: I have always changing IP adresses, every 24 hours, so this is not necessarily a valid argument.
Okay, then. We post in response to each other - definitely within a 24 hour period, so what do you then suggest (apart from actually reading our posts)?
Thats a shame,you have one of my favourite set-ups.I love your pictures you posted of your apartment,fantastic setip with bv12 and projector.
OMG
Lee, I can't believe you're letting these 2 individuals trash your site. I'm sure 99% of the members would welcome you booting them off. (The pros of doing so would far outway the cons)
Cheers
Nigel
h1npw: OMG Lee, I can't believe you're letting these 2 individuals trash your site. I'm sure 99% of the members would welcome you booting them off. (The pros of doing so would far outway the cons) Cheers Nigel
Ermm... Excuse me... It isn't trashing if people are still talking about us two even long after since how our thread derailments have stopped.
And PS. You have been a member here for I believe less than I have. And you have 800 over posts. So... Erm. I am sure they are all pitch perfect.
I rest my case.
I'm out of here!
h1npw joined 16/4/2007
wonderfulelectric joined 27/6/2007
So it looks like it's the other way around...
wonderfulelectric: And PS. You have been a member here for I believe less than I have. And you have 800 over posts. So... Erm. I am sure they are all pitch perfect.
Isn't it a little low of you to judge people that way? We accept new members to be among us to share experience - how can you know that people hos has been here for less time automatically has less to offer? It's like judging maturity by age.
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Lol... My mistake but hey he called on me.... Plus I wasn't trying to go on offensive really just reminding him that you know people aren't perfect.
h1npw: I rest my case. I'm out of here!
Right behind you. I will not be renewing.
Wow! This must make me influential!
This thread has turned in a direction, not suitable for Beoworld.I will lock it.
MartinBeoworld moderator