ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dillen: I was told, that B&O no longer sold spares. Not even to the danish repairshops.- WHAT?The only way to get the thing repaired was to bring it to a dealer, who would then send it onto B&O for repairs.
I was told, that B&O no longer sold spares. Not even to the danish repairshops.- WHAT?The only way to get the thing repaired was to bring it to a dealer, who would then send it onto B&O for repairs.
This has been the policy for as long as I can remember, unless you get a friendly dealer to order them for you. These dealers were few and far between.
Regards Graham
I appreciate your comments, gentlemen. I admit, I probably don't buy enough parts for the newer things but thanks to a forum member it seemsthere's now a light at the end of the tunnel for this poor thing (the speaker, that is).
Martin
Dillen:Or simply buy SONY, Samsung or something else.
Hello Martin,
It is indeed a whole new world, rather cold, forbidding, and with NO respect for heritage or tradition. Rather sad, in a word.
B&O management has made the decision to no longer sell spare parts while at the same time closing many of their premier stores, like San Francisco, for example. This policy is shortsighted at best, and totally lacking a future, at worst.
Having worked in the corporate world all my life, I know that customer treatment comes from the very top, which is to say that excellent customer treatment exists because upper management demands it, while poor customer treatment is the result of upper management’s focus elsewhere.
I have tried on several occasions to source parts through Vancouver and let’s just say the technician wasn’t very professional.
I was sufficiently upset about one such occasion and contacted B&O. The manager for this region contacted me and before even hearing my “story” said, “So he blew you off did he?”
That sort of cavalier attitude combined with complete lack of concern HAS to come from higher up.
You may well be right; B&O is forcing us to buy SONY.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Guys,
With my unfortunate (terrible) experience with the Vancouver dealer as well as Seattle, I completely forgot to mention (Graham spurred my memory) that the Toronto, Ontario dealer couldn’t have been more helpful. Not only did they supply the parts I wanted, they openly welcomed older equipment for servicing…… sold it as well.
Beogram RX2A fellow Beoworlder brought this one in.He couldn't get the speed right and he suspected both the belt and the speed setting trimmers.On the bench it was soon confirmed, that the platter belt was slipping, causing a wow under even theslightest load. The mere presence (weight) of a record would see the speed fluctuating.With the deck came an envelope with a new belt.I tried fitting it but had to give up. It was way to tight. If I should ever manage to fit it, thefloating subchassis would have been pulled tight up against the main chassis by the belt tension andit would no longer be floating as intended.The delicate sinter bronze bearings in the motor would be at the other end of that enormous tension andthe motor wouldn't run for long like that.For comparison I put the original and the new belt side by side. The new belt seems tobe at least 10cm (!) shorter than the original but there's really no need for anyscientific tests or measurements - a brief look will do:A belt from my own production was then fitted and the deck would now run steady - but the speed wasway wrong. An attempt to set the speed right came out fine on 45 but unsuccesful on 33. It was likethe trimmer did nothing. And that was indeed the case.I can only presume that the owner had accidentally damaged the trimmer during what could perhaps havebeen more and more desperate attempts at getting the speed right.I replaced both trimmers, adjusted them, rearranged a few internal cables that were close to contactingthe subplatter when installed and put the deck back together.
The owner had paid a good 20 pounds for the useless belt. He ought to get his money back.Every time something like this happens - and unfortunately that's quite often - I can't help wondering how many of these they've sold?- Ooh, scary thought..Martin
Martin, you are truly a consummate professional with a deep respect for B&O. I'm glad you're out there and glad you post to this thread, always interesting and informative. I just wish you lived on this side of the ocean! Two of my turntables could use some TLC, and I haven't even had the time to look at them.
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff: Martin, you are truly a consummate professional with a deep respect for B&O. I'm glad you're out there and glad you post to this thread, always interesting and informative. I just wish you lived on this side of the ocean! Two of my turntables could use some TLC, and I haven't even had the time to look at them.
Jeff, I concur about Martin, absolute top notch!
Have you considered sending your TT's to The SoundSmith? About 15 years ago I had my Beogram 6500 TT repaired to new from them, and it only needed a bit more TLC earlier this year, which was done at a service center here in CA. If I was on or near the East Coast again, I'd not hesitate in inquiring at SoundSmith. I'm sure you're also familiar with their Cartridges, too.
Sal:Jeff, I concur about Martin, absolute top notch!
This is the "other" Jeff and I absolutely agree, Martin is top notch!
While I know the reputation of SoundSmiths I also know how much they charge. Might I humbly suggest Benny at Modular Electronics near Atlanta, Georgia. Benny is excellent and very, very dependable.
Thanks for the suggestions Sal and Jeff. Since I live fairly near Atlanta, I think Benny at Modular Electronics is probably my best bet. I've got my main table, that need some adjustment and undoubtedly some lube and such, and a spare that has the arm mechanism jammed. Since I have two cartridges, an MMC4 and MMC2, I'd like to have them both in service in different rooms.
Jeff:I think Benny at Modular Electronics is probably my best bet.
Hi Jeff,
Benny is absolutely wonderful! Great communications and more importantly, he handles the equipment with extreme care.
My Beomaster 2400 is virtually flawless and it came back EXACTLY the same as when I sent it. The Beomaster 4500 is "almost" as nice, but it too arrived the way I sent it.
Both perform in as-new condition.
The "icing on the cake" is Benny's repair charges are MORE then reasonable.
When you take your equipment to Benny, please tell him I recommended him, as I consider him a "friend."
Will do Jeff, thanks!
Jeff:Will do Jeff, thanks!
Jeff, you are most welcome.
Although I am 100% certain of the outcome, I'd love to hear the outcome of your entrusting your equipment to Modular Electronics.
The Beoworld is a better place with people like Martin, John, Rudy, Søren, et al.
Jacques
Jacques, I second that! It sure is!
Piaf: Jeff:Will do Jeff, thanks! Jeff, you are most welcome. Although I am 100% certain of the outcome, I'd love to hear the outcome of your entrusting your equipment to Modular Electronics. Jeff
I'll keep you informed. It will probably be January before I get time to get it to him, lots going on at the end of the year for me.
Beocord 9000A particularly beautiful one was brought to me for repairs.The deck would play previously recorded tapes fine but playing back a tape that was justrecorded on it, the right channel sounded "muddy".Tapes recorded on the Beocord was also sounding "muddy" when played back on a different deck sothe problem had to be with the Beocords recording.The way it sounded very soon had my thoughts circling around the bias circuitry, perhaps the HX-Pro.Anyway, always first - tapeheads were cleaned thoroughly, but it brought no improvement.Then I began measuring about a bit.Curiously, on the bench everything looked fine on the scope, bias was running fine and therecordings were also perfect.I took it home and connected it to the Beomaster 8000 in my livingroom; Right channelmuddy and unclear - no doubt at all!Back on the bench, measuring the deck again I found that the deck would function perfectlywhen open into serviceposition, but fail when closed.Ahh.. a cracked solder joint somewhere then - that wouldn't be a first.I checked the whole thing, found a little here and there but nothing that could be relatedto the bias problem, which persisted nicely.Rats - how on earth would I ever be able to diagnose and find this fault when it keeps goingaway with the deck open?I carefully pulled, reinserted, flexed and bent cables - nothing.I carefully poked and flexed circuitboards - nothing.Then I noticed two vertically mounted resistors under a ribbon cable with their bared leadsvery close to touching. With the aid of a flashlight I kept an eye on them, looking in fromthe side as I slowly closed the Beocord.Bang! The ribbon cable pressed down on one of the resistors, pushing it firmly up against the other andcaused a short.I checked the schematics and found that both resistors form part of the tape type selection circuit.Bias problem confirmed.I rearranged the resistor in question, closed the deck and tested it again.All fine now.Beocord 9000 is a marvelous machine. Definitely one of the best cassettedecks ever produced.With its computer calibration and loads of digitally controlled signal path switches etc. it'sso complicated and at times tricky to service - only to achieve a position merely a horses nosehair infront of the competition.There's no doubt, that a well serviced, meticulously cleaned Beocord 9000, calibrated with afactory new good quality tape CAN produce marginally better results than other Beocords, but it'smy experience, that a Beocord 8004, which also supports HX-PRO recording, is capable of producingresults that are so immensely close to those of a Beocord 9000 - and generally produce great resultsno matter the tape etc. without all the calibrations and fine tuning, that it would be an excellentalternative.Martin
Hi martin,
Could you point out which diode that's been left out on the circuit diagram ??
Like position 2F or similar ??
Much appreciated - don't want the chance of making the same mistake :-)
Cheers
ALF
ALF: Hi martin, Could you point out which diode that's been left out on the circuit diagram ?? Like position 2F or similar ?? Much appreciated - don't want the chance of making the same mistake :-) Cheers ALF
Assuming your post must be related to my post from may 2014, where I told about a Beomaster 4400.If so then sorry, I don't recall where the diode sits exactly, but there's not a huge amount of diodes inthe output stage so compare the circuit to the schematics and you'll find it.Martin
Hi, Martin. I have a white Beogram CD 6500 from early ninety’s which I have used since. But the last years I have got some problems. The tray wont work properly and I have found out that the belt has gone loose, so it should be changed.
The other problem is that the CD stops some seconds after start without any sound and it won’t play. I have swept over the laser head with a soft cloth, but the problem lasts. I have read about the capasitors at the underside of the main board, but can’t find anything after loosing the board. How do they look like? And do you think those could be the reason?
If so, where can I buy theese items? I live in Norway
You have email.
For parts request in general, please email or PM me.
Beomaster 1100This one came from Germany.The owner said it had stopped working.And right he was. It didn't work.Covers off and I soon discovered a warm area and a burned hole around a solder pad for power resistor 5R1.
Under normal conditions this component gets about handwarm, so this one definitely faced a higher current flow than usual.A brief look at the schematics and it was clear, that this could only come from a shorted voltage regulator 5TR1.And quite right, it had a dead E-C short, allowing a good 45 Volts onto the 33V rail.Luckily most of the circuits on that rail is fairly forgiving and nothing had blown so I chose to replacethe transistor and fitted a new diode for 5D1 for good measure. After all that poor diode saw the same current flow as the resistor.
With the burned hole and broken copper traces tidied, the radio was back to life.I decided to replace the idle current trimmers and adjust them. The original parts looked better than average but they will fail sooner or later.I also replaced a good handful of capacitors now I had it on the bench.
I want to take this opportunity to answer many questions regarding the blobs of thermal paste on the driver transistors.I have seen cases where owners clean it off and that could spell disaster; The thing is, that the driver transistorsamplification factor (hFe) depends greatly on temperature. So does the output stage transistors - and even more so becausethey are darlingtons and in effect "two transistors in one", one after the other.
As the output stage heats up in use, the amplification increases, that in turn increases the temperature and if no means forregulating this was incorporated the whole thing would do a thermal runaway until something burns or blows.(These repairs are often quite involved).
To counter for this situation, the driver transistors are placed physically near an output stage transistor and thermally connectedto its collector pin (center pin in this case), which representes the "spine" material of the output stage transistor, which is alsothe surface that is bolted towards the cooling fin. All copper so very good thermal leads.The thermal connection is done by placing the driver transistor in a coil of quite heavy gauged tinned copper wire, often solderedto the output stage collector, with a good blob of thermal paste added between the driver transistor and the coil.
This allows the driver transistor to "sense" the temperature of the output stage and regulate the idle current accordingly.So whenever you see this, don't clean it off, unless it has hardened and started flaking off in which case it must be renewed.(Always use the good old white thermal compound, - the modern grey stuff sold for computer processors will dry to an almostsolid mass in a matter of weeks = no good for amplifier purpose).
A fresh set of lamps were fitted and with the Beomaster now playing along nicely, I noticed the pushbutton for the power switchhad a nasty scratch.I can't send this otherwise well-preserved and loved set back with that unsightly button.The dungeons provided a nice replacement.
It played the whole next evening while I worked on an unusually stubborn Beogram CD50 that hadnumerous "mods" and "hacks" done to it - all of which I had to first figure out and then reverse to make it play again.
Another Beomaster back in daily use.They are nice sets. Too bad some countries chose to settle for DAB. FM provides a much better sound quality, being a technology refinedthrough decades.
BTW - there's no such thing as "digital broadcast". You cannot send 0s and 1s (read: morse) "fast enough" unless modulated intosomething else. Just like data on magnetic media, hard disk drives etc.
It's all FM modulated.Did I hear a laugh?..
Master Control Panel 5500This one was found with batteries still inside...Old batteries...Quite apparent - no need to open the battery compartment to tell...
Bummer...
Well, the only way forward was to open it and see how much had been eaten away and how much (if anything) could be saved.Luckily, and in no small way thanks to it having been stored standing on its backside, it seemed to be alimited and local happening with only the rightmost transceiver hit - but very much so.The transceiver was almost completely covered in dried battery fluids. Looked a bit like sugar.
A good rinse under running handwarm water took away the junk from both the panels plastic housing shell and the transceiver module, but the module was beyond repair.
A good replacement transceiver was dug out of the dungeons and with that fitted the remote was back in service.The only thing left to do now is clean the shelf where it stood.I'd better get on with that...
Martin,
Impressive work, as always.
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Beogram 2404Coming from Sweden.The owner informed that it would play 33RPM nicely but it would fail at 45RPM.On the bench it passed with bells and whistles as I thoroughly tested it, but the speed setting trimmers are knowntroublemakers and they can indeed cause intermittent speed issues. I've seen worse but they weren't exactlygood anylonger either, so I replaced them both. I fixed a couple of dodgy looking solder joints at the connectors,which could also cause intermittent issues.
Tested the Beogram together with a Beomaster 1100 and an extremely nice pair of white Beovox P30 also here for repairs.All was fine, so I sent it back.
A couple of days later the owner emailed me and told me that the problem was still there.Still absolutely fine on 33 but the speed was all over the place at 45.
It arrived here again a few days later and jumped the line of other repairs - I just had to look into this right away.Connected it up to an amplifier and speakers and it played 45s for hours without a single (pun? - you decide) glitch.I even played 12" 45s and I got through ABBA, Boney M, Bruce Springsteen and Beatles. Hey, I even played some B-sides.A storage scope was connected to the speed circuit but it caught nothing. not as much as a slight jitter.
I scratched my head for a while and decided to ask the owner what he was playing EXACTLY.He told me the name of the albums and the 7" single he had played.The single?- Just one?- Yes, I only have one, - a Status Quo one called "Lies".
My own record collection contains a 5-digit number of singles but I didn't have that particular one, so I went and bought one off Ebay.It arrived a few days later and you know what!!! I could now replicate the fault on the bench!!!But only with that single .. eh.. single... - yeah, whatever.Everything else would play fine, but with this one the speed was everywhere and nowhere.
I have seen hundreds of record players and just as many platters rotating and I can easily tell 33 from 45 without a strobodisc.I noticed the platter seemed to turn nice and steady, but the record was sliding around as if it didn't really have any friction towards the platter.And it hadn't...
It took only a very brief inspection to reveal the problem; This particular single, a Vertigo label, has a protruding "hub" of apprx 2cm diameter rightaround the center hole.This "hub" is what the record sits on when loaded on the platter. It sits on the center tab that measures record weight.The record barely touches the friction pads on the platter, so the result was a battle between platter friction and needle friction.
I ended up fitting very thin felt pads between the platter and the subplatter, thereby raising the platter height a few 10ths of a mm in relation
to the center tab. Just enough to allow the record to touch the platter but not enough to disturb the needle tracking angle.Back it went.The owner was happy and my record collection grew by 1 single. One with its own history
Catchy song BTW. But I think I've now made up for the years passed since the last time I heard it.
Martin, now that is what I call great technical detective work. Well done!
John
Well done, sleuthing at its best. Colour me very impressed!
Beocenter 4000The dual-deck model.This one went on the bench because it had started acting "sluggish".The tonecontrol stopped working a couple of weeks ago, Dolby likewise and recently an annoying amount of hum was emitted from the speakers.First port-of-call was power supply voltages and power quality, so off came the bottom plate.Sure enough, the scope showed a very heavy ripple on one of the voltages. Looked like bad - or rather no - filtering.With the Beocenters top split from the bottom it was not difficult to spot the problem area.A 1000uF electrolytic capacitor had turned all crumbly and uneven on its surface and it had leaked badly.A good couple of minutes cleaning later a fresh capacitor was fitted. This cured everything but a noisyrecord potentiometer. A well-aimed shot of contact cleaner cured the latter and the Beocenter played along nicelyfor a couple of hours while I did a couple of refoam jobs before calling it a night.
These "japanese" Beocenters are getting rare.Particularly the Beocenter 2100 and 4000.The Beocenter 2200 less so, perhaps due to its turntable section, - but it will soon come.And they are not THAT bad given a fair pair of speakers.Worth hanging on to nice ones!
Dillen:Beocenter 4000 The dual-deck model. This one went on the bench because it had started acting "sluggish". The tonecontrol stopped working a couple of weeks ago, Dolby likewise and recently an annoying amount of hum was emitted from the speakers. First port-of-call was power supply voltages and power quality, so off came the bottom plate. Sure enough, the scope showed a very heavy ripple on one of the voltages. Looked like bad - or rather no - filtering. With the Beocenters top split from the bottom it was not difficult to spot the problem area. A 1000uF electrolytic capacitor had turned all crumbly and uneven on its surface and it had leaked badly. A good couple of minutes cleaning later a fresh capacitor was fitted. This cured everything but a noisy record potentiometer. A well-aimed shot of contact cleaner cured the latter and the Beocenter played along nicely for a couple of hours while I did a couple of refoam jobs before calling it a night. These "japanese" Beocenters are getting rare. Particularly the Beocenter 2100 and 4000. The Beocenter 2200 less so, perhaps due to its turntable section, - but it will soon come. And they are not THAT bad given a fair pair of speakers. Worth hanging on to nice ones! Martin
Hi Dillen,
Concerning the 7700..
Did the problem you meet is the same that I send you in PM?
The video : https://www.kdbuzz.com/beocenter-7700-problem.mp4
Beovox 2702They "didn't sound right", and it couldn't be the usual foam rot problem, because "I've already fixed that"...
It's pieces of thin suede, and as can be seen, not stuck particularly good to the cone - luckily.
Haha 😂
Excellent!
I've seen worse repairs.
Didn't someone try to use leather on Redline 60 passive radiators?
Speaking of the odd DIY-job;This Beocord 9000 arrived here with intermittent problems.
New fuse and holders.
Just when you think you have seen it all...
... lol. ... ... not nice but pragmatic if no spare part is currently available ... no permanent solution!
wilfried
Beogram CD4500This one came in taken apart, with a lose glass panel and screws and whatnots in a zipper bag.The owner had diagnosed a broken belt for the motorized lid and fitted an elastic band instead.Discovering that this didn't work particularly well, he had ordered a new belt from Ebay.When it arrived he looked at it, scratching his head. The new belt appeared quite different from how he remembered the original, but having already discarded of the latter, he couldn't really compare.It just looked wrong and he decided to bring the whole thing to me.
In the photo you can see: Still fitted - the elastic band In my hand - lowermost the belt from Ebay - uppermost a new belt of the correct type.
The Ebay-belt came from a seller in Germany and will absolutely never fit anywhere in here.Actually the original belt can easily lay inside the ebay-belt without touching.The elastic band snapped when I took it out, but it was a far better size match.
Believe me, I have seen MANY wrong belts in my time, they are sold everywhere, and particularly on Ebay for pennies in huge numbers these days, and boy, have I talked about this many times, - but this is what people are buying!!Scary...
If you bought belts on Ebay and have the slightest doubt about them - DON'T FIT THEM.Contact me instead.
Well, back to the poor thing on the bench; Its glass panel was secured back to its holders, its CDm servo board got a handful of fresh capacitors and, happy again, the thing was back in business.
Unbelievable. The door belts I fitted on a BC9500 recently lasted 3 months. Shame you don’t stock them. Finally, the local B&O shop were able to provide them.
Three months, - that's most likely because what you bought was O-rings.O-rings are meant for use as gaskets and bumper stops etc.. They are built to sit still and withstand being pressed together tosome extent, - not pulled and least of all excersized and flexed around a lot as they will be when used as belts.It's all in the rubber mixture.