ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
In another thread the question was:
A more interesting question would imo be:
There is a tv - and there is a BV
There has always been a great price range for audio and TV equipment, from the very earliest days.
B&O has always been in, say, the top 25% when it comes to technical quality, and from the 1960's was able to add avant garde modern design for which customers were prepared to pay. Around the 1970's and up to the present day relatively low cost competitors products could produce good technical performance, if not, in most cases, the physical design and features of B&O.
Now we have moved completely away from physical media on disks etc B&O has a problem in adding unique features. TV's on motorised stands or hinges still make B&O stand out, as do their top of the range speakers. As has been discussed in other earlier threads, the cheaper BeoPlay products may introduce new customers to the brand, and B&O might want to focus more on outstanding speakers at the top end, fed by streaming from other manufacturers devices.
BeoPlay products are online and in department stores. Do they introduce new customers to the brand? Do those new customers then go to the specialist B&O stores at a later stage to upgrade their equipment.???
Graham
My answer to your question would be... No idea! (At current pace)
Too long to list....
Not an easy question to answer. I think a re-focusing of the product line back specifically to high end audio and returning the product to being sold in HiFi shops besides the exclusive B&O stores would bring in new customers who at least in the U.S., don't even get to SEE B&O products without being near a B&O store and there are precious few.
BeoLab 14 in particular I think is a product that would get a great take rate at retailers outside of traditional B&O stores. But since B&O is set on trying to build an entire "lifestyle", they have to rely on the store personnel to sell that entire lifestyle which I think is why they didn't trust individual HiFi retailers to do the job well enough. And I think that lifestyle mindset is something that holds them back. BeoLab 14 is the first product where they have caved in and said "you know what, not everyone has a B&O TV, we need to cater to those individuals as well!". High end audio is one of the last niche markets where there are still plenty of new customers to convert or bring in. Television is now a race to the bottom.
Hi
What could make new costumers start buying b&o ? :
I would say, 3 main reasons :
- to give the opportunity to people to easily discover in the best condition how these product are good.
Most of people even don't know the name "Bang Olufsen".
It's a fact.
- the fact that people earn much more money than actually
B&o products will be always expensive and actually fewer and fewer people can afford them.
How many beoworlders are actually obliged to limit their purchases because of their financial capabilities ?
- b&o have to produce high end technical products, "future proof". Nobody will invest in old technology or in a dying brand.
I am sure that if they can afford it and they are well informed (demonstration, technical explanations...), they will choose b&o. Especially if the wife has its opinion.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
1.) there should be the old and trusted sticker on the back of the products: "Made in Denmark"I don't know any modern highend brand where you can read "Made in China" (we are not talking B..se etc.) and many customers simply don't want the china crap when they pay good amounts of money. For Example: McIntosh Amplifiers etc., T+A, Accuphase...
2.) B&Os shop employees should know every possible detail and szenario or even have a source to look for it to explain to customers what is realy possible with B&O stuff! Personally I wasn't interested in a Beo 5/6 until I found out that it is possible to control 3rd party equipment directly from the remote itself!3.) the software quality needs to be improved much much more! I have about 300 CDs on my Beosound 5 and scrolling through the albums or artists takes hours... and I still can't search inside a track or fast forward inside a track4.) Customer service needs to be highend as well! It's not a good strategy to sell a product one time leavig the customer out in the rain when s.th. happened...5.) go and get GREAT designers back! Even if everything goes digital B&O could deliver the great scandinavian design sculptures we love. What about a Beosound 3xxx or 9xxx that can read DVDs/Blurays/CDs/MP3-CDs, receive Airplay, is DLNA-compatible, allows N.Music, N.Radio, WLAN, allows PUC control of 3rd party equipment, Bluetooth-Audiostreaming etc. pp.Shouldn't be a problem.
Design...
Beovision 11-55, Beovision 10-46, Beovision 7-40, Beocenter 6-23, Beosound 9000, Beolab 18, Beolab 19, 2xBeolab 3, Beolab 8000, Beolab 6000, Beolab 2, Beocom 6000, Beosound 3, Playmaker
peria:I keep reading in different threads about B&O going back to the days of selling through high end audio (a/v) stores. Are there any left? In the USA, I think the answer might be no. I mean, there are the sort of $300 per foot cable type stores, and then there's Best Buy. I can't see B&O being successful in either place. BTW, I personally think there's a place for all three. I'll visit the super high end places as sort of an entertainment excursion, and Best Buy is a good place to buy a Samsung refrigerator.
If you are inferring that B&O should be sold at Best Buy that I'm not so sure about. Perhaps at their Magnolia A/V stores (which are probably, in fact, the most numerous "high end" A/V store because they are in a lot of Best Buys), but even then, the B&W models sold in Magnolia in-store showrooms are only the lower end Bowers and Wilkins line up through the CM9 towers. Magnolia Design Centers have access to every B&W product up to and including Nautilus, and any standard Best Buy store can order from the Design Center and pick the product up to bring it back to their market.
TWG: 1.) there should be the old and trusted sticker on the back of the products: "Made in Denmark"I don't know any modern highend brand where you can read "Made in China" (we are not talking B..se etc.) and many customers simply don't want the china crap when they pay good amounts of money. For Example: McIntosh Amplifiers etc., T+A, Accuphase...
Could not agree more. Perhaps for the BeoPlay products I can live with it, but there were rumors on Facebook that BeoLab 14 was also made in China and that is just an unacceptable direction. "China crap" is right when you are paying these amounts for something. It's also funny you mentioned Bose because *most* of their production is and has been in Mexico for years. Even they don't do a whole lot of Chinese manufacturing.
Bowers and Wilkins now manufactures everything except their highest end lines in China and IMO that's kind of been a black mark for them. Again, they've introduced several iPod and iPad based products and for that market Chinese manufacturing is fine if it brings prices down. But a Chinese BeoLab 14 is unacceptable.
Apple and all the others, fine but b&o shouldn't ?
such hypocrisy !!
These brands make mega profits , even make work childs and have expensive prices but that's not a problem of course.
Lol
olvisab: Apple and all the others, fine but b&o shouldn't ? such hypocrisy !! These brands make mega profits , even make work childs and have expensive prices but that's not a problem of course. Lol
Uhh I'm sorry but that's total bullshit. There's a difference between a 500.00 iPad (even that is overpriced) and a 4000.00 BeoLab 14 or a 4000.00 BeoLab 3(!). Look I'm not stupid, it's not like I don't know that there are speakers that cost 1/3rd that price that sound just as good if not better. But I buy B&O because I appreciate Danish design, quality and engineering. I'll be damned if they are going to take my 4000.00 and then just farm it out to the lowest common denominator to produce and just "be like everyone else". What is wrong with striving for better?
Even Apple is going to start manufacturing some products in the US again!
And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Again, BS!
Like I said, B&O Play line is a different story. It's designed to be more accessible so if they are going to produce something in China, may as well be that, and that's OK, I'm not completely unreasonable.
Playdrv4me: Uhh I'm sorry but that's total bullshit. There's a difference between a 500.00 iPad (even that is overpriced) and a 4000.00 BeoLab 3. Look I'm not stupid, it's not like I don't know that there are speakers that cost 1/3rd that price that sound just as good if not better. But I buy B&O because I appreciate Danish design, quality and engineering. I'll be damned if they are going to take my 4000.00 and then just farm it out to the lowest common denominator to produce and just "be like everyone else". What is wrong with striving for better? Even Apple is going to start manufacturing some products in the US again! And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Like I said, B&O Play line is a different story. It's designed to be more accessible so if they are going to produce something in China, may as well be that, and that's OK.
Uhh I'm sorry but that's total bullshit. There's a difference between a 500.00 iPad (even that is overpriced) and a 4000.00 BeoLab 3. Look I'm not stupid, it's not like I don't know that there are speakers that cost 1/3rd that price that sound just as good if not better. But I buy B&O because I appreciate Danish design, quality and engineering. I'll be damned if they are going to take my 4000.00 and then just farm it out to the lowest common denominator to produce and just "be like everyone else". What is wrong with striving for better?
And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Like I said, B&O Play line is a different story. It's designed to be more accessible so if they are going to produce something in China, may as well be that, and that's OK.
There's a very lengthy and argumentative thread about this if you care to search for it. Saying "Made in Denmark" is necessarily better than "made in China" is a massive, sweeping generalisation and cannot be true in every circumstance. If proper care and attention is paid there is no reason why a Chinese manufactured product cannot match a Danish version in all aspects of quality and finish. If you want to suport Danish manufacturing or boycott Chinese for other reasons then that's fine but quality needn't be it.
Regarding Apple, I would guess that's for nothing more than PR reasons.
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: Playdrv4me: Uhh I'm sorry but that's total bullshit. There's a difference between a 500.00 iPad (even that is overpriced) and a 4000.00 BeoLab 3. Look I'm not stupid, it's not like I don't know that there are speakers that cost 1/3rd that price that sound just as good if not better. But I buy B&O because I appreciate Danish design, quality and engineering. I'll be damned if they are going to take my 4000.00 and then just farm it out to the lowest common denominator to produce and just "be like everyone else". What is wrong with striving for better? Even Apple is going to start manufacturing some products in the US again! And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Like I said, B&O Play line is a different story. It's designed to be more accessible so if they are going to produce something in China, may as well be that, and that's OK. There's a very lengthy and argumentative thread about this if you care to search for it. Saying "Made in Denmark" is necessarily better than "made in China" is a massive, sweeping generalisation and cannot be true in every circumstance. If proper care and attention is paid there is no reason why a Chinese manufactured product cannot match a Danish version in all aspects of quality and finish. If you want to suport Danish manufacturing or boycott Chinese for other reasons then that's fine but quality needn't be it. Regarding Apple, I would guess that's for nothing more than PR reasons.
Yeah, I saw that thread and read most of it. It seems you ignored the part of my post that specifically said that this was not intended to be an argument about whether the Chinese can make things *better or worse*. Bang and Olufsen is a luxury product, like a Rolex watch. And I guarantee that if Rolex took away the "SWISS MADE" stamping from the face of their watches, the company would cease to exist in about 6 months. Yes. That label matters.
Playdrv4me: olvisab: Apple and all the others, fine but b&o shouldn't ? such hypocrisy !! These brands make mega profits , even make work childs and have expensive prices but that's not a problem of course. Lol And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Again, bullshit.
And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Again, bullshit.
I would like to know, under which surcumstances and conditions the items are made in China. Then I would like to give a verdict on this matter.
I think, outsourcing of a part of the production is not bad by itself, but a good reason to ask "Why".
And I wouldn't mind reading more on this matter on http://www.bang-olufsen.com
90% price off.
Peter the Biker:I would like to know, under which surcumstances and conditions the items are made in China.
The sucumstances are already known : to make some profit in order to avoid losses again. That's for me a really good reason. If this new politic was in the DNA of b&o, we would have only china products in our home.
It is in the DNA of Apple only for financial reasons.
That's a huge difference !
As you say, it would be good to know which parts are done, information is always better than ignorance.
Peter the Biker: Playdrv4me: olvisab: Apple and all the others, fine but b&o shouldn't ? such hypocrisy !! These brands make mega profits , even make work childs and have expensive prices but that's not a problem of course. Lol And let's not get into the argument about the Chinese being any more or less capable of producing things. It comes down to the fact that I am paying for the craftsmanship and prestige that comes from knowing my item was manufactured in Denmark. It's like saying you would be ok buying a Rolex made in China! Again, bullshit. I would like to know, under which surcumstances and conditions the items are made in China. Then I would like to give a verdict on this matter. I think, outsourcing of a part of the production is not bad by itself, but a good reason to ask "Why". And I wouldn't mind reading more on this matter on http://www.bang-olufsen.com
Fair assessment.
This argument always gets so complicated on every brand that it is discussed on, but I feel that it matters the *most* on luxury brands. I don't "boycott" China. I'd rather my Sony and Apple things not be made there, but I understand that in the mass market it's something that I have to accept. But in boutique luxury brands the argument is quite simple really. Part of the reason that I pay X amount *MORE* for X product than "average" Y product is because I know X product is being made, at whatever cost necessary in a matter in which simply farming it out the lowest bidder is not acceptable. If you then turn around and demand the *same* price for your products but simultaneously go and farm out your manufacturing to the Orient because it costs you as the company less, then I better be seeing some of those savings. But there's an inherent problem there. If B&O lowers prices along with manufacturing everything in the Orient, then they will be seen as "going downmarket", and the luster they've achieved being at the top 25 percent of the spectrum will be lost to most of their core customer-base. So my argument is keep the price spectrum where it has always been, develop the best products in the world, and keep making your top tier products in the manner you have ALWAYS made them with that "Made in Denmark" logo that makes ME feel better because I paid for that to be there. If you need to release a line of products at the low end of the spectrum to help subsidize R&D costs at the top, then that isn't optimal, but it's acceptable. Manufacture those products wherever you want.
A good example of this is Nakamichi. Probably, at one time, Japan's most elite producer of audio equipment. There's a Nakamichi Gold Limted edition cassette deck on Ebay right now from this period for $9000.00. A $9000.00 expenditure on a cassette deck is probably one of the few things wilder than a 20k pair of speakers (and I bet someone WILL eventually buy it as it has 346 watchers!). Yet this company, now owned by some Chinese firm, makes 15.00 headphones that sell at K-Mart. I'd rather they just be GONE than tarnish the brand and its heritage with that kind of garbage. Even then, I don't think Nakamichi ever marketed themselves as being anywhere near the level of "luxury lifestyle" product that B&O does.
Gatex:90% price off.
Well for a bl14 under 3000 euros you already have your 90% price off !
"We have to move production to China" seems to be just a management truism!When a company outsources production to china the biggest reason seems to be that they are getting greedy... and that is definitively not the way to go!And why should I pay the full price when I know that they moved production and increased their margin by 150%?Apple - no matter if you like them - sets a mark with its move of iMac production to the US. People will see this as a very positive sign and groundbreaking simply because it's Apple - but it will work!And to the people trying to tell that outsourcing is inevitable: Please explain why so many brands did manufacture their products for decades in their home countries? I have a few older hifi components and DVD players at home and I can NOT find a "Made in China" sticker on any of them!And non of them have nowadays yoghurt pots "buildquality"!I wonder how the companies could survive AND deliver much higher quality components over all the years? :-)
TWG: "We have to move production to China" seems to be just a management truism!When a company outsources production to china the biggest reason seems to be that they are getting greedy... and that is definitively not the way to go!And why should I pay the full price when I know that they moved production and increased their margin by 150%?Apple - no matter if you like them - sets a mark with its move of iMac production to the US. People will see this as a very positive sign and groundbreaking simply because it's Apple - but it will work!And to the people trying to tell that outsourcing is inevitable: Please explain why so many brands did manufacture their products for decades in their home countries? I have a few older hifi components and DVD players at home and I can NOT find a "Made in China" sticker on any of them!And non of them have nowadays yoghurt pots "buildquality"!I wonder how the companies could survive AND deliver much higher quality components over all the years? :-)
To make no mention of the many dedicated and loyal employees at B&O HQ whose jobs are currently secured by B&O not simply "taking the low road" and doing what everyone else does in the name of a dollar, when their products already command an enviable premium. That they can't sell *enough* of those products won't change until they develop what the customer wants, not just build the same things they aren't buying for less!
Playdrv4me: And I guarantee that if Rolex took away the "SWISS MADE" stamping from the face of their watches, the company would cease to exist in about 6 months. Yes. That label matters.
And I guarantee that if Rolex took away the "SWISS MADE" stamping from the face of their watches, the company would cease to exist in about 6 months. Yes. That label matters.
Well, they do and have. Many ETA-powered luxury watches are assembled in China, as the ETA movement is produced over there. They just don't tell you this. The brands in question still say 'Swiss Made' even though the assembly and movement is Chinese :)
The problem with discussing Chinese manufacturing is more xenophobia than a true argument against. I've never really seen any true argument where a Chinese manufactured product is inferior to the *same* product produced in, say, Denmark.
For instance, I've had zero issues with my Chinese BeoSound 8. I've had tons of issues with Danish-produced BV7s, BeoCom 5's and so on.
moxxey: Playdrv4me: And I guarantee that if Rolex took away the "SWISS MADE" stamping from the face of their watches, the company would cease to exist in about 6 months. Yes. That label matters. Well, they do and have. Many ETA-powered luxury watches are assembled in China, as the ETA movement is produced over there. They just don't tell you this. The brands in question still say 'Swiss Made' even though the assembly and movement is Chinese :) The problem with discussing Chinese manufacturing is more xenophobia than a true argument against. I've never really seen any true argument where a Chinese manufactured product is inferior to the *same* product produced in, say, Denmark. For instance, I've had zero issues with my Chinese BeoSound 8. I've had tons of issues with Danish-produced BV7s, BeoCom 5's and so on.
In order to legally qualify to have the "Swiss Made" label watch manufactures have to comply with regulations stating that a certain high percentage content of the watch must be sourced from Switzerland. So while the ETA thing is true, the vast majority of a watch bearing the SM marking is still Swiss. Also, speaking to Rolex proper, the only models that use ETA movements are the low end Tudors which are not even exported to the U.S. anymore. And, with regards to Rolex and several other watch manufactures, this "country of origin" nonsense goes further to not just the COUNTRY of origin, but with Swiss watches there are even different levels of prestige based on the TOWN they are made in... (Geneva, Bienne etc.)
And while your position is a valid one (and I have seen the same argument over on the Sony camera forums, where some have stated their Japanese made RX100s had focus problems and the China ones did not), it still goes back to an argument about whether the Chinese production is any better or worse, which is not really my concern (up to a certain point, of course). It isn't even necessarily, going back to the watch discussion, that the *entire content* is Danish. But having that final assembly there, and having the LABEL on the back, is still something I prefer knowing that some portion of my purchase price went to paying Danish employees to perform final assembly of my product.
I don't doubt that the Chinese made Beoplay products aren't just fine. My Macbook Pro is just fine. But those are both in a different price/content ratio category than a traditional B&O ultra high end product. I guess I will just agree to disagree with many of you, and I get that some people I guess just don't care how the company uses their money. But for me, part of the luxury of dropping the kind of coin that a traditional Bang and Olufsen product requires, includes having EVERY PART of that relationship with the company and the product be something DIFFERENT and BETTER, even if by *perception* than something I could pay anyone else less money for. And one of those things is where the product is assembled. I definitely don't expect nor demand that a 425.00 Playmaker be made in Denmark, much as I would *prefer* it. But a 20k BeoLab 5 or even a 4k BeoLab 3 made in China? I'll pass.
moxxey: Playdrv4me: And I guarantee that if Rolex took away the "SWISS MADE" stamping from the face of their watches, the company would cease to exist in about 6 months. Yes. That label matters. Well, they do and have. Many ETA-powered luxury watches are assembled in China, as the ETA movement is produced over there. They just don't tell you this. The brands in question still say 'Swiss Made' even though the assembly and movement is Chinese :)
200 years ago many of the very best watches were made in Liverpool, and many found their way to the US through european emigration. ('Jewelled movements known as 'Liverpool Windows' etc).
Then the Swiss started to copy the Liverpool movements and put (forged) Liverpool makers names on them.
Then the Swiss started mass production of simpler/ cheaper (quality) movements.
Then Liverpool watch makers and retailers started slipping the cheaper Swiss movements inside 'Liverpool made' watches.
Then, to all intents and purposes, Liverpool watch-making folded.
Plus ça change.....
EDIT
A few, like Sewills, continued into the late 20th c, but only by badge engineering. People were still prepared to pay a premium price, though, based on the reputation of a firm made 200 years ago. WIll B&O, Rolex, etc also have similar long lingering deaths?
TWG: Please explain why so many brands did manufacture their products for decades in their home countries?
Stop living in the past and don't be blind.
A brand that makes losses has good reasons for outsourcing its production.It doesn't mean this production will stay there.
Wow, Apple moves one production to the states and it changes everything.
They did it for decades !! even when the profits were at its maximum.
such non sens, such hypocrisy again.
TWG: When a company outsources production to china the biggest reason seems to be that they are getting greedy...
When a company outsources production to china the biggest reason seems to be that they are getting greedy...
I love the way consumers believe this is the case.
The reason manufacturers outsource to China is due to consumer demand driving DOWN prices, thus forcing companies to reduce the quality of their products and/or manufacturing source. It's not a case of being 'greedy', it's case of maintaining their revenue stream.
So it's ok for customers to expect and demand cheaper pricing, but on the flipside it's wrong for manufactures to figure a plan to match this demand, by outsourcing? The consumer isn't 'greedy' for wanting to pay £1000 for their 55" TV, but the manufacturer is, for making this in China?
Didn't Tue recently admit B&O hasn't made a profit on TV manufacturing for 10 years? One could argue that they need to be more greedy!
Customers are happy - more than happy - to pay almost nothing for their clothes, their TVs and so on. This is fundamentally the problem, not the manufacturers desire to reduce the quality of their product.
moxxey:Customers are happy - more than happy - to pay almost nothing for their clothes, their TVs and so on. This is fundamentally the problem, not the manufacturers desire to reduce the quality of their product.
It is really sad to see that some people didn't understand this actually. Maybe they will never understand it.
Millemissen: What could make new customers start buying Bang & Olufsen/B&O Play products?
What could make new customers start buying Bang & Olufsen/B&O Play products?
To be fair, the discussion on China came from a poster saying that the label does or would affect how old or new customers affect brand perception, so it's very valid. No need to repeat the title to get things 'back on track' :)
I think the prize gap is too high. A "normal top of the range 55" television" costs about 3000€ + 1500€ for a better sound (soundbar,.....). Even if I say the perfekt frame of a b&o costs about 1000€, I find a gap of 5000€ to a bv11. Most people can't or do not want to spend that money for a product, where the technology is going forward that fast in the last years.
Do you know that b&o don't make any profit in TV ?
moxxey: TWG: When a company outsources production to china the biggest reason seems to be that they are getting greedy... I love the way consumers believe this is the case. The reason manufacturers outsource to China is due to consumer demand driving DOWN prices, thus forcing companies to reduce the quality of their products and/or manufacturing source. It's not a case of being 'greedy', it's case of maintaining their revenue stream.
Eh, yes and no. A review for the BL3 I was reading yesterday kind of nailed it when they were extolling the virtues of the speakers but also said that the pricing wad from "another planet". So some of these typically very valid China points simply don't apply here, because if B&O is anywhere near losing money on a 4000.00 pair of BeoLab 3s, there is a fundamental problem with the way that company is run! Moreover, I don't hear a lot of outcry begging for B&O to reduce prices. As I stated earlier, the high prices go hand in hand with the elite positioning of the product. If BL3s were made out of plastic and cost 500.00, they'd be just like everything else out there.
So yes, in this very isolated case, one could argue that the only reason to move production there on *profitable* products, would be to make *more* profits, not stem losses,
And if B&O can't make money selling a 10,000.00 TV with a panel that costs them a fraction of that price (hell, the best "non B&O" TV out there in the mainstream, the Panasonic ZT60 is probably 3-4000.00 at RETAIL), then again, it could be more justification for them to exit that market and focus on Beoplay and their (hopefully) highly profitable speaker lines and sell them in more places.
When speaking of NORMAL circumstances then yes, Wal-Martization of everything has driven prices down on commoditized products to the point where manufacturing in China is all manufacturers can do just to stay competitive. We're not talking about the Sonys and Vizios of the world here. Everyone seemed to attack the portion of my postings that said not to manufacture main line speakers in China, and ignored that I stated clearly I understood why B&O Play items made more sense to make in that part of the world.
But I will leave it at that, as I don't want to pull this thread any further away from its purpose and having Millemissen yell at me is not something I desire this morning :P
I did not know it, but i thougt so, like most companies. But in my eyes it is the main reason, which prevents new costumers to start in the video section of b&o.
And on the other side there is just the BS5E as a stand alone product. In my eyes a wonderful system to catch new costumers (prize/design/feeling), but all updates the "big" BS5 has gotten weren't made for the BS5E. Is it so difficult to implement the ALAC codec? Is it so difficult to integrate airplay? B&O has a wonderful looking Beoplayer app and you can't use it with your BS5E - in my eyes a bif fault.
I own a bs5/bm5 combo but I must admit that the bs5 encore doesn't desserve this poor treatment.
Brigantinus: I think the prize gap is too high. A "normal top of the range 55" television" costs about 3000€ + 1500€ for a better sound (soundbar,.....). Even if I say the perfekt frame of a b&o costs about 1000€, I find a gap of 5000€ to a bv11. Most people can't or do not want to spend that money for a product, where the technology is going forward that fast in the last years.
You know, that's a product I could see B&O making, a high end sound bar with streaming.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
stop making over priced under performing crap
that's a start , oh and don't keep treating your dealers like $hit
Jeff: Brigantinus: I think the prize gap is too high. A "normal top of the range 55" television" costs about 3000€ + 1500€ for a better sound (soundbar,.....). Even if I say the perfekt frame of a b&o costs about 1000€, I find a gap of 5000€ to a bv11. Most people can't or do not want to spend that money for a product, where the technology is going forward that fast in the last years. You know, that's a product I could see B&O making, a high end sound bar with streaming.
I think it would fall under the Beoplay or "low end" line that BL14 also seems to fall into, but that is actually a great idea. They already have the building blocks in place for this with designs going back to the BL3500 and the speaker on the BV7, if they don't go with a radical new design.
Playdrv4me:Moreover, I don't hear a lot of outcry begging for B&O to reduce prices.
There have been many such threads expressing sheer exasperation at the cost of TV's and the ever upward spiralling prices of the speaker range.
moxxey: Millemissen: What could make new customers start buying Bang & Olufsen/B&O Play products? To be fair, the discussion on China came from a poster saying that the label does or would affect how old or new customers affect brand perception, so it's very valid. No need to repeat the title to get things 'back on track' :)
the discussion on China cons/pros is very important, indeed.
But, starting this thread, I feel somewhat responsible that it stays on track, but of cource I can not force that.
People may discuss whatever they like, but you often see a thread drifting away from the initial subject.
And I just wanted to give the thread about "what made you stop...." a more positive counterpart!
I copied the title from the start - not realizing it would come out that BIG. Then again I thought i'd let it so
And I surely did not mean to 'yell' at anybody in the morning - actually it was written in the afternoon my time!
P.S. Maybe I should change my avatar to 🐯
Sincerely Millemissen
Just bring back the Christmas morning feel of purchases past.