ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
The sound dampening material is different between the MS150 and MS150.2
Here is the inside of the cabinets
Hi
Thought you might like to see re-cloth job on ms150 frets, these are a second pair of ms150s i have but the old cloth was faded and had lots of holes in them so i had some spare speaker fabric that matched the sofa and gave it a go.
marc
marc: Hi Thought you might like to see re-cloth job on ms150 frets, these are a second pair of ms150s i have but the old cloth was faded and had lots of holes in them so i had some spare speaker fabric that matched the sofa and gave it a go. marc
Fk me!!!
Great thread, very well done and most informative. Just picked up a pair of MS150s and will be doing the 4 refoams. I love my RL140s and refoamed them awhile back without removing dust caps or having to shim. Going to try that approach here too. Here are a few pics.
Came with the original stands, cabinets are really nice overall, all grille pieces in tact, one is missing a little trim. Will use your excellent thread to get mine back in the game again, thanks!
Beautiful Volvo you have there!
Thanks Johan. '73 P1800ES. I'm the 2nd owner, bought from the original Swedish owner out of Southern California, rust free and in great shape.
Yeah, did think that looked like a nice P1800 there
Beogram TX, Beovox S45, Beovox MC 120.2, BeoSound 1, CX50, Beovox S75, Beomaster 2400, Beomaster 5000, Beogram 5005
It looks like you found some MS150s with very good cabinets. I hope to get my MS150.2 pair up and running this month too.
-sonavor
Yes, I'd rate the cabinets 9 of 10. Great wood overall.
All 6 grille pieces in place, some tabs broken, any suggestions on repairing them or replacement of some of the metal trim? One piece on the lower section is broken and missing. Any advice on the front black surface - as noted in this post, it's kind of funky, sticky, etc. What's best to make it look new? I oiled the cabinets and the black surface, but maybe something else on it would be better?
I haven't replaced the grill cloth yet but the metal (aluminum) frame pieces should pull apart. Replacing the grill cloth should be pretty straight forward. On the tabs, I have fixed the tabs on the S55 and MC120.2 speakers I have. I posted a fix on the Beoworld archived forum for the posts that hold the grills in place. In the case where the plastic part of the frame is missing, you may have to order some plastic sheets (not sure what kind offhand) from a plastic supply house and cut out something to fit. I haven't tried anything like that yet though.
Amazing thread John. Reading it for the first time now and got interested since I got a MS150 stand new in the box. Now I only need to find this pair of speakers to fit on. I was in Houston a while ago, forgot that you're from Texas (send you the service manual) or else I certainly would have contacted you. Maybe next time...
Brengen & Ophalen
Sonavor,
Thanks very much for the link to thread. I will use your technique to fix all of my broken pegs! I'll update thread as the restoration continues. I am looking forward to hearing these speakers as I do love the sound of my RL140s and expect the MS150s to be far superior.
Leslie: Amazing thread John. Reading it for the first time now and got interested since I got a MS150 stand new in the box. Now I only need to find this pair of speakers to fit on. I was in Houston a while ago, forgot that you're from Texas (send you the service manual) or else I certainly would have contacted you. Maybe next time...
I am probably about 5 hours or more away from Houston but do give me a call the next time you head my way. The Beogram 8002 manual was a big help on that project.
indyaudio: I will use your technique to fix all of my broken pegs!
I will use your technique to fix all of my broken pegs!
I did a quick check - you will have to use a size or two up from the wall plugs I used in the restoration link. That repair was for S55 and MC120.2 speakers. The grill peg diameter on those is around 8 - 8.16 mm. I measured the hole for the grill pegs on the MS150 and it is 10mm.
Sonavor, thanks again for the heads up here. I up sized to an M5 size hex bolt and I'm using some small plastic spacers on the shafts. I'll post a few pics once I get going. Just ordered my surround from Simply Speakers here in the states. They had all 4 for $50 including shipping and their glue which I've used before, it's clear and sets up quickly/nicely. I've also used the Aileen's Tacky glue with great results on my RL140s.
I've used the glue from Simply Speakers with a lot of success as well.
Sonavor has been great help as I get my MS150s back to new condition. Here are a few more pics of the progress.
I wound up ordering the foams from Simply Speakers here in the US. Both pairs including the glue for $49 delivered and I"ve used them in the past on other speakers with great results.
Pictures: The original stands; drivers with the rings removed - 10" pried off easy without tools, just hand pressure; 8" you need to use a screwdriver from the top side and gently pry up going around the circle, then they will separate by hand.
I followed Sonavor's thread on the speaker grille peg repairs and he was kind enough to let me know the MS150s were a bit larger than the prior repair - see the little white bags from Lowe's for sizes I selected. I used the same metric hex head bolts, but used a nylon spacer - the hole is bit small but with the vice grips the bolt screws right in. I didn't bother to saw off the lower plastic post section, just drilled in where the factory tabs broke off. Works perfectly, great fit! Note - use a piece of metal (triangular tin piece in picture) underneath the plastic grille frame between the cloth so you don't nick or tear it with the drill bit. Got a couple installed, will do all 24 this week while I clean up the woofers and get ready for the foams to arrive.
Good work. I will have to pick some of those spacers up at Lowes this week.
Thanks. 56 cents a pair. Note my vice grips have the rubber covers to avoid them "biting" into the nylon spacers. The bolts thread right in but are a little tight getting started. Spacers fit in the front baffles like factory:)
Recently picked up a nice set of these myself:
:
Since I'm planning to refoam and recap them, I've read this thread with great interest, lots of good information and pictures.
Has anyone here refinished the wood of their MS150's yet (or another Beovox set with the same finish for that matter)? Someone told me to wetsand with 1000 and 1500 grit followed by a few coats of danish oil, which sounds like a good, not too aggressive method. Is that the route you guys are taking?
I'm under the impression the veneer on these is stained and varnished (the few scuffs I have on mine are clearly lighter and given the years of neglect I'd assume they would look a lot duller by now if it was an oil finish).
Nice!
I have done nothing to my cabinets other than oil them, they are in pretty nice shape, so I can't comment on your post other than from past reading on the topic, that sure sounds like the right path to take. Maybe someone else here can comment on the factory finish.
Work has gotten in the way of mine this week. I did receive the foams and I should get to them this weekend along with finishing the grille post repairs. With any luck be listening to them on Sunday sometime. Will post updates/pics of progress.
indyaudio: I have done nothing to my cabinets other than oil them, they are in pretty nice shape, so I can't comment on your post other than from past reading on the topic, that sure sounds like the right path to take. Maybe someone else here can comment on the factory finish.
what product did you use exactly? If you used a real oil based product like danish oil and it managed to penetrate and bring some luster to the finish after wiping them down, wouldn't that mean they're not varnished?
B&O used real veneer on all wood finished speakers, oak, teak and rosewood. Until now I never saw a stained veneer. The veneer is rather thin, so be careful sanding, do not use sanders, hand sand
. If there are deep damages, clean with isopropyl alcohol, sand with 200 grain until all the rest is clean, dust off, clean the deep marks with acetone, when clean, add some drops of water on the marks, this sometimes make the wood swell, when dry. sand the marks again with 200 grain.
With no deep marks, I do like this. Clean with Isopropyl alcohol or, if very dirty, with acetone, then sand with 200 grain, until scuff marks are gone, and the wood clean. dust off, and sand with 400 grain, soak with boiled linseed oil (Danish oil), after 1/2 hour clean off excess with lint free rag. Let dry over night. Sand lightly with 400 grain. soak with oil, 1/2 hour, wipe off excess, let dry over night, polish with lint free rag.
This will give you a finish like this, the boxes were very dry, had scuff marks and water stains. If you want a very shiny finish use finer sanding paper and/ or laquer. The oil gives the advantage that it is easy to reapply after 1 or 2 years, just clean with iso alc. soak with oil, wipe off excess, let dry, polish. Done. Keep clean with soapy rag, do not use wood waxes or, God forbid, Pledge.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Thanks for the explanation Søren Mexico, nice to get a picture of the result along with the instructions. Since you specifically mention wetting the deeper scratches, are you drysanding with 200 and 400 grain?
FRQ: Thanks for the explanation Søren Mexico, nice to get a picture of the result along with the instructions. Since you specifically mention wetting the deeper scratches, are you drysanding with 200 and 400 grain?
I am drysanding with 3M microfinishing PSA backed 80 micron (180 grain) and 40 micron (360 grain), comes in sheets 8x11", the PSA backing glues to a hand sanding pad, cut sheet to size. Can be used on wood over and over again, when running full, just clean with a steel brush. Normal sandpaper runs full too fast.
If the deeper scratches or marks does not come up with water, mix wood powder from sanding with clear drying wood glue, more powder than glue, clean the mark with a knife and alcohol, press the glue mix into the mark and even it with a knife or a spatula, let dry, I normally do this after first sanding with 80 micron, then, when dry, sand the repaired part with 40 micron and then it all with 40 micron. Bigger damages has to be repaired with new veneer pieces.
Here a pair of Beovox 1600, before
And here finished
You seem to have this down to a science. I'll be rereading this post once it's time to move mine to the workshop for refinishing (which will be after I've forgotten what a pain it was to carry an entire Beosystem 8000 including the cabinet up a flight of stairs by myself).
I just love the 1st class carpenter works that B&O did in these days, all items with veneer was made with the same piece of veneer, check the top edges of your speakers, the wood grain is fitted perfectly. The kind of work they did these days deserve to be handled with respect and in honor to the guys that did it. Here my BM 4000 top cover, I am of thread, last post about wood.
Soren is very, very correct about how thin the veneer is. Ten seconds with an orbital sander with 200 grit and you will be through the veneer. Trust me. My M70s know.
I have made some progress this past week and plan to finish over Memorial Day weekend. I reglued the smaller woofer plastic retaining rings to the cardboard port tubes. I redid all 24 of the grille section posts. They fit nicely now, but if you don't drill them 100% plumb, they will require a little help with a finger or thumb, but all mated to the holes in the front baffles and look great. The spacers I used are pretty close to the exact diameter of the baffle holes. I can't stress enough the importance of using a metal scrap below the grille section where you are going to drill holes. About half way through, my thin scrap got weak from repeated drill bit taps and one of my plunges resulted in a chunk of fabric being removed - not happy. Will need to determine how to remove and replace the cloth to match.
My Simply Speakers foam kits arrived for all 4 woofers. This weekend I'll clean and prep them and do the install. I have not yet done any dustcap removal or shimming of voicecoils and don't plan that here either. I am going to use the battery approach - glue the surrounds to all 4 woofers, let them set up; attach a small battery to the +/- of the woofers to seat them in up position, apply glue to frame, reverse polarity to pull down centered in the basket. Let is set up and disconnect battery. This should center everything nicely.
I'm not going to do anything with the crossovers yet, will put them back together and enjoy some music this weekend. I will update with pics and impressions.
Have you changed or updated the rear B&O wire connector plug with a more traditional binding post configuration? I would like to do this but not disturb the cabinet too much and the factory 1" approximate diameter hole in the rear.
No, I haven't. The MS150 speakers with the nice wood on the back were the first series I believe. That is like what you have. The pair of MS150's I began this thread with are that model as well. I don't want to disturb the original configuration with a mod. Especially with it being wood on the back. On my other set of MS150 speakers, the back panel is black. I wouldn't object to modifying those but I don't plan on changing those either. My third pair are the MS150.2. That pair came with both the DIN speaker plug and traditional binding posts. I have pictures posted earlier in this thread of all three types. Whenever I get the opportunity I pick up a set of B&O original speaker cables (opportunity also meaning the price is reasonable).
Thinking about what you want to do...See if you can disconnect the speaker DIN socket that is currently there from the inside. You can keep DIN socket so you can put it back. Then run speaker wire from inside the cabinet out through the hole (maybe install a rubber grommet). Install some speaker terminal jacks on that new wire and you won't have to do anything to the original cabinet.
Thanks Sonavor for the reply and I did see the previous pics, very helpful. You are correct, mine are just like your first set with Rosewood rear cabinet finish. Sounds like they figured it out best on the .2s.
I"m torn here on what to do. I have a number of amps and traditional DIN banana plugs so I can swap in/out easily. On the other hand, keeping them original may be a good idea. Think I'll get the refoam work done and run some speaker wire out of the hole, plug it up and connect to see how they sound. I've updated some other speakers in the past - recently a pair of JBL L112s but it wasn't as significant as going from a proprietary DIN plug to traditional binding posts, rather I just updated them from a pair of push style posts to banana posts and used the same factory mounting plate configuration. Was quick, easy, and looks factory, most wouldn't even know it was modified or updated.
Do you have a source or any specs on the factory DIN connectors? I would need both the speaker cable and speaker cabinet connections, thanks!
That's actually a great idea! My factory plugs are missing, but I like the idea of using a plug and running wires out with some quick disconnects. At the very least, that will be my first step, thanks again!
indyaudio:I am going to use the battery approach - glue the surrounds to all 4 woofers, let them set up; attach a small battery to the +/- of the woofers to seat them in up position, apply glue to frame, reverse polarity to pull down centered in the basket. Let is set up and disconnect battery. This should center everything nicely.
Be very careful with that! It doesn't necessarily center the cone! I normally use the basic steps from this guide, but I normally use 8 clothes-pegs instead of 4 like and I make sure that there is equal space on each side of the coil by using both hands and then push down on the each side of the the cone alternately. After that I hook the drivers up to my power supply and listen for scraping noises again by pushing down with the same technique as before - and then again with the polarity reversed. It can sometimes take an hour before I'm satisfied, but keep in mind, that when you first have glued it, then it's really hard to undo it! And I have no problem using 4 hours making sure, that they are as centered as I want them to be, when I think about, that they are going to sit that way for the next 20-30 years!
You could try to center them by attaching a battery and then put clothes-pegs on, unhook the battery, and then use the method I described above - I did try that sometime if I remember correctly, but I also seem to remember, that the cone wasn't centered...
Please fell free to ask if any questions! I've refoamed a couple of speakers using this method including a pair of MS 150 and MS 150.2! And I hope you'll be able to enjoy yours any time soon - I love my MS 150.2! I have had a pair of RL35 hooked up instead of my MS 150.2's for the last couple of days, but today I hooked the MS 150.2 up again, and WOW - I had totally forgotten how good they are! It put a huge smile on my face!
- Dennis
Dennis: It can sometimes take an hour before I'm satisfied, but keep in mind, that when you first have glued it, then it's really hard to undo it! And I have no problem using 4 hours making sure,
It can sometimes take an hour before I'm satisfied, but keep in mind, that when you first have glued it, then it's really hard to undo it! And I have no problem using 4 hours making sure,
I am dying to suggest that opening the dust cover and using shims is way faster and you are sure everything is aligned....but I won't However, if your method works well for you then more power to you.-sonavor
sonavor: Dennis: It can sometimes take an hour before I'm satisfied, but keep in mind, that when you first have glued it, then it's really hard to undo it! And I have no problem using 4 hours making sure, I am dying to suggest that opening the dust cover and using shims is way faster and you are sure everything is aligned....but I won't However, if your method works well for you then more power to you.-sonavor
I am dying to suggest that opening the dust cover and using shims is way faster and you are sure everything is aligned....but I won't
However, if your method works well for you then more power to you.-sonavor
What John said.