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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022

 

Keep your styluses clean

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Søren Mexico
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As a normal used needle has an average lifetime of about 1000 hours, before showing wear, a proper cleaning of the records will extend the life of the diamond/needle. Correct tracking force and correct adjusted anti skating will also help. Normal users are not able to adjust anti skating, this is only possible with the help of a test record and oscilloscope. Also important is the parallel adjustment of the cantilever to the record, the needle must enter the groove at an exact 90° angle.

If I have an estimated time of playing of 3 hours a week, my average, that is 150 hours a year, this will give me a needle lifetime of 7 years. Very clean records, deck properly adjusted, I suppose will add 50% to the lifetime, and I get 10 years.

IMO a tangential tracking deck will also help, as I believe the tangential decks are "easier" on records/needle. I have no proof of this, just my opinion.

Most of us use more than one deck, I divide my playing between 2 decks, so now I have a lifetime of 20 years on each needle.

In 20 years I will be deaf or dead, so Axel and Soundsmith, hold your horses, not much business from me.Big Smile

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Mon, Aug 19 2013 4:11 AM

I really must take the time and read the entire article you provided.

 

That diamond styluses wear really is not in debate, and I would be (and will be shortly) in a position to intelligently comment on this after I have actually ready this piece.

 

However household dust is usually organic, dead skin cells being the most common source of dust. I have pet parrots which really add to the mixture, but again it is organic.

 

With the windows closed I don’t see much to add to the mix with the notable exception of cooking. Here is where I expect to find what the article is talking about.

 

In any case my turntables are 4000 and 8000 series which track lightly and accurately and as mentioned here with no small amount of pride and pleasure, my BEST cartridge dates from 1974 and is 39 years old.

 

True it spent many years in storage, but after really thinking about it, this stylus must have 17 years of regular use.

 

I have looked at it with my 30X jeweller’s loupe and it looks pristine. However that is not a look with a microscope. That said it sounds FANTASTIC and that is not an exaggeration.  

 

I look forward to reading what you sent, but in the mean time I do feel that these cartridges when cared for, last a very long time.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

tournedos
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tournedos replied on Mon, Aug 19 2013 7:42 AM

Piaf:

However household dust is usually organic, dead skin cells being the most common source of dust. I have pet parrots which really add to the mixture, but again it is organic.

 

With the windows closed I don’t see much to add to the mix with the notable exception of cooking. Here is where I expect to find what the article is talking about.

The silica / quartz dust (read: sand) comes in embedded in your clothes. If household dust was "soft", we wouldn't have to worry about introducing swirl marks when dusting...

--mika

ouverture
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ouverture replied on Mon, Aug 19 2013 12:29 PM
soundproof:

Wouldn't be much of a business model if your customers were convinced that the diamond could never wear down.

the article was written in 1954, it was not written by the marketing department :-)

if it was written in the nineties I would probably agree with your cynical observation !
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Aug 19 2013 2:26 PM

It's actually very hard to see even pretty severe stylus wear with a loop or even a normal microscope, you're looking at a very small surface that's very curved. Wear that's invisible this way shows up clearly with a stereo microscope, depth perception really makes a huge difference. I've had stylii that looked fine on my traditional lab microscope show up as badly worn on a Shure stereoscopic microscope of lower power. The local McIntosh dealer had such a scope back in the day, we were competing shops, but the best of buddies regardless of that, hifi nerds all. 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

ouverture
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ouverture replied on Mon, Aug 19 2013 3:19 PM
mexking:

As a normal used needle has an average lifetime of about 1000 hours, before showing wear, a proper cleaning of the records will extend the life of the diamond/needle.

but please also remember to clean the stylus with something like ZeroDust as well (can be found on ebay these days for under $40 USD, this will also help preserve the life of a good stylus

ZERODUST COMMERCIAL

Zerodust cleans your delicate stylus without using brushes or fluids. Clean your stylus simply and effectively with the Zerodust from Japan. This space-age polymer bubble allows you to simply lower your stylus onto its surface, then quickly lift the arm lever and you're done! Watch as the stylus tip slowly sinks into the baby soft surface, leaving behind an impression with the stylus debris left behind!

Zerodust can be used a million times and will extend your stylus life and enhance your listening pleasure, it comes complete with a magnifier to inspect your stylus!

Zerodust is made of newly developed ultra soft plastic is unprecedented high performance cleaner and easy to use. As the cleaning element of Zerodust is softer and has 15 times more elasticity than a baby skin, this mysterious material will never damage your delicate stylus.

"This is a blob of clear jelly surrounded by a thin membrane on which you touch the needle. For some reason the membrane attracts dust like a magnet, and the softness of the gel allows you to do it without damaging the mechanism. It also comes with a magnifier which is perfect for making sure the needle is clean.

Does it work?

"yes, as well as the best liquid stylus cleaners, without the worry of migration of the liquid up into the cartridge, thus damaging the mechanism. So now, I clean the stylus with a liquid at the beginning of the session, then use the Zerodust the rest of the time. Works like a charm." -

Enjoythemusic.com review

"A circular mound of semi-gelatinous goop in a box, onto which you gently lower your stylus," said Michael Fremer. Use is simple: "After a few seconds, you lift the stylus, and it's as clean and residue-free as the proverbial whistle... Upside: no potentially dangerous brushing, and no fluids"

Stereophile Magazine, April 2003 Vol.25 No.3

Directions:

Lightly press a stylus tip once or twice onto the Zerodust cleaning element, and pull it up. The element accepts the tip very naturally and finely removes dusts over the tip for noise and muddy free sound. Dusts now stick to the cleaning element leaving no scum thanks to so designed ingredients of the element material.

NB

when the cleaning element begins looking a little grungy, just wash it in warm water with a little bit of neutral detergent. Dust is easily removed, and you can use Zerodust over and over for a very long time.
ouverture
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ouverture replied on Mon, Aug 19 2013 4:17 PM
Severian:

It's actually very hard to see even pretty severe stylus wear with a loop or even a normal microscope, you're looking at a very small surface that's very curved. Wear that's invisible this way shows up clearly with a stereo microscope, depth perception really makes a huge difference

indeed, but the lighting on a x200 scope is the key to view this properly

being able to see the wear facets, extremely small flats on the side of the very tip of the diamond require side lighting to get the reflection of the flats. These are so small that most microscopes not set up for this are totally inadequate, so x200 magnification and how the Shure setup the lighting was key to seeing any wear on the tip (or should I say on the sides of the tip)

when a new cart is observed under the scope, ideally photos should be taken, with special emphasis on how small the white dots are on the flats when viewed through the scope, over time these get larger, and one can then determine with some accuracy how many playing hours are left before damage to the groove walls of the record are being made by the tip (which is now a chisel)

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Tue, Aug 20 2013 4:23 AM

I am quite interested in the Zerodust product, I find it quite tedious to clean my MMC20EN which was retipped as it has no stylus guard and a long cantilever. Does anyone who has a Beogram 400x series table confirm if it will fit under the arm? the arm on the BG4002 sits quite low and the product looks pretty tall.

Drew

ouverture
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ouverture replied on Tue, Aug 20 2013 10:58 AM
the ZeroDust is a bit on the tall side, you need to carefully bring the dish up to the stylus on a 4000, and very slowly bump into the stylus tip, the problem is that you cannot manually tip the stylus into the ZeroDust dish, the only way the stylus moves down on a tangential Beogram is if a record is detected on the platter

there are other ways to clean the stylus, worth exploring

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1214613223&read&keyw&zzcleaning+zerodust

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7024-extreme-phono-solid-state-stylus-cleaner.aspx

NB I also use white Mr. Clean Magic Eraser (ME), but it must be used dry. Do not wet it with anything. Although ME looks like any other fine celled sponge, it is not when looked at under a microscope. It has millions of minute sharp fingers, which actually scrape the Stylus clean. To wet it would vastly reduce its efficiency.

The Blue ME contains soap, definitely do not use that one, only White ME, this small box for a few dollars should last for 10 or 20 years

Mr Clean ME was not originally intended for Stylus Cleaning, but many have found it to be a very cheap and effective way to keep a stylus clean.

For any stylus that may have been previously neglected, that looks generally filthy, and even have caked-burnt on deposits-residues, then remove the MMC from the tonearm and use a small clamp or modellers vice (or Blu-Tak) to secure the cart, then carefully use ME in a more aggressive manner by cutting a very slender, tapered wedge, and then insert a toothpick at the wider end, and very carefully brush all sides of Stylus with the ME.

NB If you are deflecting or slightly moving the Cantilever by this cleaning action, you are using too much pressure. Be careful not to snag the Stylus with the ME, take your time, do not rush, and make sure the area is well lit with a powerful lamp, and use a magnifying glass.

ouverture
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ouverture replied on Tue, Aug 20 2013 11:14 AM
WHAT’S WRONG WITH EXPENSIVE STYLUS CLEANERS?

Jonathon Carr of Lyra explains that heat and friction from the stylus-vinyl interface leave a layer of vinyl molecules (and probably other contaminants) bonded to the stylus after each side. This layer must be removed or it will continue to accrue. At first this layer will only be visible under a strong x200 microscope. As the buildup thickens with additional plays the stylus gradually turns cloudy, gray or yellow.

The sonic degradation from this buildup is gradual but progressive. High frequencies slowly disappear, since the stylus can no longer trace the finest groove modulations. Micro-dynamics are slowly impaired and the sound goes dull. If the layer gets thick enough mis-tracking will occur.

Gels and goops will not remove this layer. They aren't aggressive enough. Liquids won't remove it unless they contain alcohol or other solvents that are dangerous to some cartridge suspensions and stylus/cantilever glues. What's needed is something that will physically abrade that gunk loose without doing damage.

HOW DOES IT WORK?

By abrasion. The venerable Scottish turntable maker Linn used to supply strips of very fine sandpaper. That works, but a properly used Magic Eraser is easier and more effective for daily use. Modern materials science has created a product that is compliant enough to clean all sides of a stylus, yet abrasive enough to remove even stubborn contaminants.

ME is made up of micro-fibers arranged in an open mesh. This airy structure lets the fibers flex around a stylus and contact every surface.

These fibers are sharply ridged and very hard, making the ME very abrasive on a microscopic scale. We’re talking about nearly molecular sized ridges; don’t go looking for them with your pocket magnifier!

HOW DO I USE IT?

Always dry brush with a stylus brush (back to front) before using ME or any other stylus cleaner. There’s no point contaminating your stylus cleaner with loose fluff. Only use the ME dry. Wetting the ME causes its open mesh to collapse into a denser bundle. There are two popular methods for using the ME. One is safer. The other cleans better. Get comfortable with the safer method before trying the better one but please note, the safer method alone may not be adequate over time.

SAFER METHOD

Cut a small, thin piece of ME and glue it to a coin or other thin, heavy object. Place this on the platter and dip the stylus straight down into the ME and back up, using the cueing lever. Dip it several times.

NEVER move the stylus or the ME sideways, forward or backward. Those interwoven fibers are grabby and strong. Once the stylus is inside the ME, moving any direction but straight up and down could separate stylus from cantilever or break the cantilever.

ALWAYS dry brush the stylus again after using the ME. It sheds pieces of itself easily and these are very abrasive. You don’t want them on your vinyl. Some people ZeroDust or XtremePhono at this stage, to be extra sure.

BETTER METHOD

Slice off a small, thin wedge of ME and stick it on a toothpick. The pointy end of the wedge should be VERY thin. It should flex easily under the slightest pressure.

After dry-brushing, dunk the stylus into the ME a few times or bring the ME up to the stylus and back down, as in the safer method. Then use the thin end of the wedge to scrape along the cantilever and around all sides of the stylus. BE CAREFUL. Do not apply any force; the ME will do the work. If you see the cantilever deflect you’re pushing too hard.

ALWAYS finish with a dry brushing, ZeroDust or XtremePhono, as discussed above.

Used regularly, this method will remove all traces of amy vinyl buildup layer, use it every time you play a record, that layer of vinyl molecules attracts more gunk with every play. Don’t let it get started and your stylus will always be at its best.

IS IT SAFE?

Every stylus cleaning method involves risk. The ME white version uses no chemicals or solvents, so the risks are limited to operator error. Please pay attention at all times.

NB Find a small camel hair brush and clean the stylus and cantilever after every ME treatment before you use ZeroDust

Søren Mexico
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Magic Eraser pickup cleaner here

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

sonavor
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sonavor replied on Tue, Aug 20 2013 6:25 PM

I have continued doing some research on visually inspecting the stylus.  I found a nice thread where a gentlemen describes a project where he built an appropriate microscope system for examining phonograph stylus.  The thread is on another audio site so I won't post the link here.  However, an interesting piece of information is what led to the building of the microscope. In the heyday of vinyl, Shure was of course a well known phonograph cartridge company. Shure produced some test equipment for audio shops to test and examine cartridges.  One piece was the PEK analyzer which could measure performance of a phonograph cartridge while it was connected to a phonograph player and playing a test record (also supplied by Shure).  The other piece was a microscope called SEK that was built for Shure by some optical company and configured specially for examining the stylus for wear. The important part about the microscope was that in had to have good lighting from the sides and above the stylus, the platform had to be able to adjust in small increments and the magnification needed to be capable of 200X in order to detect wear.  So a cartridge was lined up at a lower magnification to get it centered in the view finder.  Then the magnification was increased to 200X to view wear spots. The wear spots show up as bright areas from the illumination lamps.  The inspection of the stylus tip also has to be straight on from the top. I did find a link to a PDF user manual for the Shure SEK-2.  It is interesting to read.  It describes the measurement process, includes some pictures of worn stylus tips and some information on stylus care (which is the topic of this thread).  This manual was prior to the invention of Magic Eraser (which is my preferred cleaning method).  But it does have good information in it.

-sonavor

ouverture
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ouverture replied on Tue, Aug 20 2013 8:32 PM
mexking:
Magic Eraser pickup cleaner here

me too, luckily for me I have a friend who I go ski-ing with, and he works for BASF in Germany, he gave me some Basotect about 10 years ago when I got back to playing vinyl again in my hi-fi rig, he uses it with his expensive Benz-Micro carts (all made in Switzerland) , and he knows Albert Lukaschek personally.

Melamine foam is actually manufactured in Germany by BASF and sold under the trade

name "Basotect". It has been used for over 20 years as insulation for pipes and ductwork,

and has a long history as a soundproofing material for studios, sound stages, auditoriums,

and the like. The low smoke and flame properties of melamine foam prevent it from being a fire hazard, and one of the biggest consumer users of Basotect is Mr Clean in America ( Magic Eraser)

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sun, Sep 1 2013 2:17 AM

I can’t believe it happened again! Lets have a Party !!!

 

I am currently having issues with my unloved S120.2 speakers in that they need re-foaming. However while examining them carefully I noticed that the right speaker had NO woofer response of any kind and the treble was barely audible.

 

That starting me thinking, well your problems with these speakers are worse than just re-foaming. So I checked both ends of the speaker connectors…. Not the problem.

 

Then I changed sources but everyone was talking away on the FM so that didn’t help and the 8-Track player is of such dubious quality that I couldn’t really see (hear) what I needed.

 

I tried the balance control and I seemed to have almost no right channel and it hit me, OMG the receiver has blown its right channel. Now I really was upset. Angry

 

However even with my memory heavily cloaked with senility, this whole scenario seemed just too darn familiar.

 

So I took out Bang & Olufsen's magnificent record cleaner, the MMC 6000 from my Beogram 8000 and sure enough it had a bouquet of garbage surrounding the stylus.

 

Once cleaned the speakers work just fine, the receiver is fine….. and I feel like an idiot. Now in my own (sort of) defense the first time the sound quality was terrible in both speakers. This was different in that the left channel was normal, but the right channel had NO bass whatsoever and just the slightest treble….. I literally had to put my ear to the tweeter to hear anything.

 

I doubt anyone else will have this sort of scenario; however I, for one, have learned before I go into full panic again over this particular system to remember to check the 6000 cartridge first before anything else and save myself a whole lot of unnecessary trouble. Embarrassed

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

soundproof
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I clean the stylus after each record, and inspect them using this.

 

 

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sun, Sep 1 2013 3:03 AM

soundproof:

I clean the stylus after each record, and inspect them using this.

 

 

 

Most impressive to be sure. Yes - thumbs up

 

However isn’t there a very real danger in removing the cartridges more than absolutely necessary? I have read that both the arm receptor and the MMC cartridges themselves are fragile.

 

As such I try my best NOT to remove them more than necessary.

 

I use my Beograms on a consistent daily basis, thus removing the cartridge two or three times a day would, in my opinion be asking for trouble….. and with five Beograms an awful lot of work. I think I’d have to have OCD to enjoy that! No - thumbs down

 

Jeff

 

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

vikinger
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Piaf:

soundproof:

I clean the stylus after each record, and inspect them using this.

 

 

 

 

Most impressive to be sure. Yes - thumbs up

 

However isn’t there a very real danger in removing the cartridges more than absolutely necessary? I have read that both the arm receptor and the MMC cartridges themselves are fragile.

 

As such I try my best NOT to remove them more than necessary.

 

I use my Beograms on a consistent daily basis, thus removing the cartridge two or three times a day would, in my opinion be asking for trouble….. and with five Beograms an awful lot of work. I think I’d have to have OCD to enjoy that! No - thumbs down

 

Jeff

 

If you haven't tried it yet you will be amazed at what can be done by adding a cheap magnetic / self adhesive close-up lens to a mobile phone camera or iPad. Either view on screen or take a picture.

Graham

Jackplug
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Great thread you started :-)  I've had decks and used my MMC20CL and MMC1 with them.  Then was forced to go back to 'normal' quality stylus because just could not get used to all the extra 'stuff' that the top quality stylus brings out.  Better detail of course but more clicks, pops, hiss (from the original tape masters) than I could cope with. LPs WILL just always have all of the above so I vote to stick to the middle of the road approach and sit further back ;-)

tournedos
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Just found this old bookmark, it might be interesting:

http://www.micrographia.com/projec/projapps/viny/viny0000.htm

--mika

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Jackplug replied on Sun, Sep 1 2013 12:21 PM

Thanks, all my LPs are pristine and do sound very good except for the ones that were pressed slightly off centre, as used to happen sometimes.  And when you took them back to the shop and they played them and said, "what's your problem...?"  mainly because there were no scratches etc and the old dear in the shop couldn't hear any 'wow' it used to annoy me endlessly :-(  So I do look after my LPs and CDs but the CDs are much easier to rip to MP3s, which is what we all listen to these days anyway, isn't it ?  :-)  Rgds

Jackplug
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Jackplug replied on Sun, Sep 1 2013 12:21 PM

Thanks, all my LPs are pristine and do sound very good except for the ones that were pressed slightly off centre, as used to happen sometimes.  And when you took them back to the shop and they played them and said, "what's your problem...?"  mainly because there were no scratches etc and the old dear in the shop couldn't hear any 'wow' it used to annoy me endlessly :-(  So I do look after my LPs and CDs but the CDs are much easier to rip to MP3s, which is what we all listen to these days anyway, isn't it ?  :-)  Rgds

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