ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Are B&O starting to turn a profit or still struggling to get in the black. What's your guess?
Something like continued growth in Asia and continuing decline in Europe?
That's what I figure as well. Probably still growth in Asia and South America. B&O Play still growing and the same goes for Automotive.
Do you think they'll just cut and paste the last report then go to the pub?
Raeuber: Nowadays it's impossible to sell a Beovision with 40 inches for 5.000 EUR or more, because you can get a TV with 50 inches with all features including internet access with many apps for 500 EUR.
Nowadays it's impossible to sell a Beovision with 40 inches for 5.000 EUR or more, because you can get a TV with 50 inches with all features including internet access with many apps for 500 EUR.
Well, it's certainly not impossible as a) my dealer is shifting them (BV11-40) and b) there's a delay on BV11 production due to demand (although the factory shutting for two weeks over Christmas, didn't help there). It's just much harder. And won't get any easier.
But then so it is shifting the BL18/BL19s. They're darned expensive. As I said in another thread, the irony about the popularity of Spotify is that people are getting used to paying less for obtaining their music, so it's going to get harder to convince younger people to fork out £6K on a speaker combo.
However, I was told last week that B&O are aware of this cost issue and it is being addressed. The BV12-65/BS4 was the first product to be brought in line with the new pricing model (let's be fair, £13K for a 65" B&O, is reasonable value) and this forthcoming 'BV7 replacement' due April/May will also be part of the new pricing model, to make it more affordable.
JanB:That's what I figure as well. Probably still growth in Asia and South America. B&O Play still growing and the same goes for Automotive.
Raeuber:But I think there will be again a decrease in main business in Europe: Televisions and loudspeakers. Nowadays it's impossible to sell a Beovision with 40 inches for 5.000 EUR or more, because you can get a TV with 50 inches with all features including internet access with many apps for 500 EUR. Greets Räuber
Greets
Räuber
Hi Räuber,
please see my signature below
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
That report is the result from before the (shop-)launch of the new speakers - please keep that in mind.
I am more interested in the report for the fourth quarter - in half a year.
moxxey: However, I was told last week that B&O are aware of this cost issue and it is being addressed. The BV12-65/BS4 was the first product to be brought in line with the new pricing model (let's be fair, £13K for a 65" B&O, is reasonable value) and this forthcoming 'BV7 replacement' due April/May will also be part of the new pricing model, to make it more affordable.
i think they are indeed aware of this.
But how do you start reducing prices?
Imagine they would start selling the BV11 at half the price tomorrow.
There would be a rebellion amongst those who already have bought one!
I guess it will only work with new products (as you already wrote) - and with good offers like: 'bring your old tv and get a new BV for...' or ' get a set of speakers, if you...' as we already have seen it.
Millemissen:i think they are indeed aware of this. But how do you start reducing prices? Imagine they would start selling the BV11 at half the price tomorrow. There would be a rebellion amongst those who already have bought one! I guess it will only work with new products (as you already wrote) - and with good offers like: 'bring your old tv and get a new BV for...' or ' get a set of speakers, if you...' as we already have seen it. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
The pricing is one issue.
What worries me more is, when I talk to “young “ people (age 20 to 40), almost none of them has ever heard of the brand name Bang & Olufsen.
So how are they going to attract new younger customers when hardly anyone knows the brand and the products?
Have you experienced the same?
Rudy
RUDYV:The pricing is one issue. What worries me more is, when I talk to “young “ people (age 20 to 40), almost none of them has ever heard of the brand name Bang & Olufsen. So how are they going to attract new younger customers when hardly anyone knows the brand and the products? Have you experienced the same? Rudy
Raeuber: So I will wait for: "Get four Beolab 5 for free if you buy a BV 11"😃 Take a look at the second hand market, you will get back a lot of money if you sell Beolabs after many years, but with Beovisions you will loose most of your money. Räuber
So I will wait for: "Get four Beolab 5 for free if you buy a BV 11"😃
Take a look at the second hand market, you will get back a lot of money if you sell Beolabs after many years, but with Beovisions you will loose most of your money.
1: Or 'buy four BL5....and get a BV11 for free'
2: I know the secand hand market/prices quite well!
D'you wanna buy a set of BL5000 from me?
@Beoradio
B&O is a VERY small company.
Millemissen:@Beoradio B&O is a VERY small company. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Sure?
Well - maybe it was so - in times of 007 🚗
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
Raeuber:That's true, but almost every kid knows Aston Martin very well!
TV market is over in europe, look at german Loewe , mainly focusing on TV only, theyre ***** now
Lets hope it doesn't get so small it disappears!
The marketing problem is the most worrisome. It just never seems to get any better.
I just read a review of the new Beats Music streaming service. The reviewer in USA today loves it predicts it will hurt Spotify, Pandora and iTunes radio. With the way Beats has taken over the headphone market with the young generation this could be possible. It is after all the brainchild of a music executive. He talks about how great the app is and how it brings you to discover new music. In the US you can hardly turn the TV on without seeing a Beats ad. I'm sure it's all over social media as well.
I remember hearing at the launch of the Beosound 2 that B&O was planning an internet music service. It never happened and that could prove to have been one of the bigger mistakes.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:I've said it before. Where can people who want better quality streaming go for such a library?
Good, in theory, but it will never compete long term. The demand just isn't there. The hassle for record labels and revenue earned wouldn't justify the deal. Besides, a good deal of commercial modern music is somewhat produced for headphones, so doesn't need high-quality streaming or £6K speakers.
Spotify offers a decent 320kbit/s, which us better than 95% of people require. Sadly us B&O owners are in that top 5%, a small market share and a declining market share.
If you want the highest quality, buy the CD and create FLAC files. Like I do with backups of my Blu-rays. I could watch Apple TV etc, but what an uncompressed audiio stream offered by Blu-ray. Again, a declining market and demand.
i can categorically state that B&O does not have anywhere near the finances or desire to compete against Spotify by getting in to the music business :)
👍
I am anxious to see the results. They are pressing forward with some exciting new products, but as per usual, I don't expect these results to blow anyone away - like Apple of old.
I think there's an element of unrealistic expectations here - a tiny company from Denmark is never going to make oodles of cash. It's a fickle market technology, and it's getting tougher. Products from competitors are becoming cheaper and have even more features. B&O just doesn't have the economies of scale. But it's a long road and the great thing is they don't give up!
I think the world and tech world would be a much poorer place without a B&O - or any other high-end tech company like B&W or Naim etc. I think everyone on this site understands that B&O is a more expensive product - so I don't see them ever competing in the cheaper end of the market, nor would I like to see them there. This all said, I think that they have recognised a real dynamic shift in the market - hence PLAY, and I think that this has afforded them the unique opportunity to try some new designs and tap a different market segment.
The marketing and getting in front of younger users is always a difficult proposition - it takes time, lots of $$$ and a concerted effort to crack the market - of course a few nice products (not the vomit green headphones) would help.. But I feel that they are picking up the pace. I think an area they continue to lack in is the service. It's damn near non existent from some dealers (Oz speaking) and remains an area that I think could really make a difference. People are always willing to pay extra if they receive more...
I think 2014 will be an exciting year for B&O if, as I understand it, they release some innovative, desirable products that people can't live without!
Chris Townsend:Ironically after reading your technical explanations of BluRay v Apple TV which I watched a lot, I've been out buying the damn discs :-/
LOL. Good on you Chris! Does make a difference though - well, from an audio perspective, at least.
Back them up to a NAS drive with MakeMKV then ethernet connect the NAS to the BV11!
B&O Play website announces the Form2i......
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Mark: B&O Play website announces the Form2i......
yeah , on the former Form 2 , i liked the discreet brand Logo, now Bn0 Logo got so huge it just looks gay. I wouldnt wear this in public. You see how such a minor detail can destroy the whole great design of an product. Marketing department hits
Gatex: ...now Bn0 Logo got so huge it just looks gay.
...now Bn0 Logo got so huge it just looks gay.
I hope you know who you might be offending on here with referring to a B&O logo as 'gay'? Ridiculous. I hope you don't go through life worrying about what you wear whether people might think you look 'gay' or not. Oh, the dilemma's you must face, when shopping!
moxxey: Gatex: ...now Bn0 Logo got so huge it just looks gay. I hope you know who you might be offending on here with referring to a B&O logo as 'gay'? Ridiculous. I hope you don't go through life worrying about what you wear whether people might think you look 'gay' or not. Oh, the dilemma's you must face, when shopping!
Seconded.
And thank you!
Audiophiles sadly often sniff up their noses at B&O, because they dismiss it as a 'lifestyle' product without bothering to properly investigate the superb technology and R&D behind the product.
On the other hand, a lot of folks buy B&O because they aren't audiophiles, and aren't interested in audiophile opinions either, - but love music and film, and know great sound reproduction when they hear it, - AND are very interested in stunning and iconic design of which B&O has more to offer than just about any other audio brand in the market place - and many of those buyers who are driven mainly by design sensibilities as well as audio qualities, are quite likely to be gay.
Not necessarily of course, but I would opinion that far more gay people interested in stunning design as well as cutting edge audio, would gravitate towards B&O moreso than most other Audio/AV brands IMHO.
But really, why worry what other people think of ones consumer choices?
I cop flack from various quarters re things I choose to buy and own, such as my marque of car, and choice of HiFi to name two, and I could care less to be honest.
I've been around for long enough to feel very confident in my consumer/lifestyle choices and at the end of the day it's my money, and not theirs, so I don't concern myself overly much with others opinions - especially someone unknown to me in the street.
Life is short, so spend it with people who treat you well, ignore those who don't, and don't worry about what people may think of your dress/fashion/designer taste or whatever, as rest assured, some will hate it, and others love it, so please yourself in that regard first, and the rest will fall into place.
John...
John:Life is short, so spend it with people who treat you well, ignore those who don't, and don't worry about what people may think of your dress/fashion/designer taste or whatever,
BeoNut since '75
Second Quarter
I guess this report was good because we see a raise in the stock with 10-12% after a very positive week. These days make me the happiest about the brand, not only because I have invested because I believe in Tue, but because if it goes well we will see products in the future from Bang & Olufsen.
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
Thanks for the report link.
The numbers are continuosly worrying to say the least!
What I can't for the love of God understand is how B&O seem to continue to ignore it's biggest market by far Europe!
16% decrease?! How long do they think they can ignore this? Sure increases in Asia or the US might sound good by only looking at the percentages, but the 21% increase in revenue in the US is basically nothing... Sales in NA is 49 million DKK or roughly 6,5 million Euros.
BRIC revenue is only 91 million DKK. Again, yes it's increasing, but the decreases in Europe is equal to the increases. There's no guarantee that NA or BRIC will continue to rise.
I would put emphasis on the brands overwhelmingly strongest market, Europe, not neglect it like they do now. Imagine a 16% increases in Europe?! That would easily be in the hundreds of million DKK instead of reporting 1 million euro increases in North America, which even by a small company like B&O is nothing.
Too long to list....
B&O,
Any good CEO/Economy department should tell you, your biggest problem is here:
"Europe recorded revenue of DKK 601 million in the first six months of the 2013/14 financial year, com- pared to DKK 734 million in the same period last year, a decline of 18 per cent."
Without Europe, you'll be dead soon. Deal with it.
bayerische: Without Europe, you'll be dead soon. Deal with it.
Actually, revenues on the whole are up compared to the same quarter in the previous year, so saying they will be 'dead' is going slightly overboard.
Within Europe, they could do with improving their shipping speeds, for a start. I was told yesterday that the delivery on the BL18s is approx 3 weeks (understandable), but 4 weeks for the Transmitter 1. This should be an off-the-shelf device you want walk in and purchase from your local B&O store. A wait of 4 weeks? What's happening there; are they making each one by hand?
The black SE A9 is constantly unavailable (http://www.beoplay.com/Products/BeoPlay-A9-Black-Edition#buy) on the BeoPlay website and has been since mid-December. I know it's an SE, but unavailable for a month and out of stock a week after launch? Bizarre. If you can't buy the items and can't buy them reasonably quickly, people just look elsewhere.
Worldwide electrical and electronic goods sales are down, so against that background B&O are probably doing as well as anyone.
Graham
Moxxey, I wrote "will be" as in the future. Not they are dead.
If Europe continues to be a poor performer, and the spiral of - 15% or so will continue year over year then I really think they'll be dead.
The cash reserves are small, the decrease in revenue in Europe is about 50% of their cash reserves.
Looking at the figures they're really slightly in the black, and with so little cash reserves, (I don't know how eligible they are for more liquidity) it's not as if they can do drastic things. They're in desperate need of cash flow.
vikinger: Worldwide electrical and electronic goods sales are down, so against that background B&O are probably doing as well as anyone. Graham
Graham, it's a very dangerous proposition, to look at your industry that isn't doing too well, and then padding yourself on the back, "we're doing better than the average" and still perform poorly.
There's also some electronic segments that are doing very well. Samsung with their phones and Apple with their entire lineup.
Moxxey the long shipping times is probably due to the stock being at a bare minimum. They obviously can't put money in a huge stock, so the factories are probably down to "built-to-order" mode.