ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
bayerische: Moxxey, I wrote "will be" as in the future. Not they are dead.
Moxxey, I wrote "will be" as in the future. Not they are dead.
I know what you wrote.
A company with (slightly) increasing revenues isn't going to become 'dead' simply due to declining sales in one territory. The primary reason Jaguar and Aston Martin are doing so well is the increasing revenues in America, China and other countries outside their local market. Very similar to the situation at B&O.
Moxxey, IF B&O had a similar amount of revenue from EU, NA and BRIC say 33% each I would agree with you.
Now this is not the case. The EU region is overwhelmingly the biggest. There's no guarantees that NA and BRIC will continue to rise.
If the EU region would drop by another 15% next year, and BRIC, NA would stay where they are we have a problem.
Why not spend on your biggest market? It's crazy.
Too long to list....
we've seen a few products recently off-loaded to 3rd Parties due to stocking levels and it's a hard balancing act to meet both customer expectations and tying money up in dead stock.
I personally can accept a month to wait for a large piece of equipment but what is an ideal lead time to you guys ?
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Mark: I personally can accept a month to wait for a large piece of equipment but what is an ideal lead time to you guys ?
I can for the speakers. But a Transmitter 1 is a relatively cheap (£350) device, much like the Playmaker. You should be able to walk in to a B&O store and buy it. It shouldn't have any delay. It's likely to put people off - die hard fans would wait. We love the brand. I'd wait, even though I think it's a bit daft. New customers are more likely to move on.
bayerische: Why not spend on your biggest market? It's crazy.
Instead of stating what you think is the obvious, why not list some suggestions about what they can do better and more effectively, in Europe?
Now I have listen to the Q&A there have been here 10 a clock, you can find it here, it have some interesting points.
First off bayerische I follow your point and is indeed valid though the report is showing a trend that is flatten so hopefully we will see a stop in this decline help with new product releases.
Another interesting point is they are going to release the new television in late Q4 so I guess May or June. I think most in here knows what to expect.
Moxxey about the delivery time Tue also answer that. They had underestimated the demand for Beolab 18 and their will be a better delivery time soon.
As for the Transmitter I agree with you but I guess stuff like that takes time. I would like to see 6 month ahead that every dealer have stock of Transmitter and receiver as I find this a good selling point for the older sparkers as well.
There is also a Q about marketing as it have been short the question was actually as precise as the dealers complained about the marketing of Beolab 14 and the possibility of working with third party ( I agree strongly with that) was not very well communicated to non B&O customers. The answer was that it was a choice that money was spend on R&D instead of marketing as it was the most important thing right now, and there was not money for both. He also replied that when the line of product had been updated fully they would start on much more marketing.
Valid point I guess as they do not have unlimited resource
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
moxxey: bayerische: Why not spend on your biggest market? It's crazy. Instead of stating what you think is the obvious, why not list some suggestions about what they can do better and more effectively, in Europe?
Moxxey, I'm not working for B&O, how could I possibly know what they do wrong and right, where there's place for improvement in cost saving etc? Nor do I know how and where they're marketing outside of Finland, but I can tell you in Finland they're almost forgotten, since they put an ad once or twice a year.
They do however have a CEO who is very concentrated on Asia. Perhaps some of this attention should be put closer to home?
Once I'm on their payroll, I'll promise to do it though.
bayerische: Moxxey, I'm not working for B&O, how could I possibly know what they do wrong and right.
Moxxey, I'm not working for B&O, how could I possibly know what they do wrong and right.
You don't need to be an employee to make personal observations from a distance.
As a brand user, you can suggest ways of doing business better within Europe. As an example, when I suggested they need to improve stock levels. Without stock, new customers will move along more swiftly than a loyal supporter of the brand. Indeed, even some existing customers aren't too happy with the wait for a new BV11, from what I've been told. I know one guy who finally saved up for a BV11, ordered end of November, for Christmas, and was told 'mid-January'!
That's simply not good enough. In many cases, buying a new gadget or tech device is often an impulse decision. You don't want people to change their minds or have second thoughts and delays cause people to re-think or buy an alternative which is available.
I'll stop going on about stock levels now :)
You're right about stock levels.
That's definitely a good point, but that's not 16% decline, I'm sure.
What I would start with is Design. The design of late isn't what came out from Struer 20 years ago.
It's hastily put together, and while the innards might be great, what ultimately sells is the exteriors.
Perhaps this new design, is Asia driven? I mean the cultural differences are huge, also what lures peoples attention. I haven't felt "I must have it" from a B&O design since the BV9. Ten years!
I haven't bought anything new from B&O in 4 years.
Design and substance with a reflection on price is what is most needed IMHO.
It isn't easy to design a flat TV, I'll give them that. They have been working on the pricing, which is great, the TV's used to be ridiculously priced, they're getting more humane.
At the same time other companies, are getting better at integration. B&O seems to be getting worse at it.
The stand alone system developments are good, but not good enough, as they would be much better if they had the possibility to be integrated on a level. Say a great wireless Beolink system. Built on your exciting wireless router system, you could play music at home on the Beolit 12 from your home system, now you'll need a different source as an iPhone for it at all times. I'd love to buy a Beolit12, if I could use it in my bathroom at home, and play from the same source I play my Beolab5's at the same time, just like a true Beolink system. Nope can't do that, so I see no point spending that much on something I would use very seldom.
Competition is crazy on the AV market, new technologies are developing with lightning speed in the tv-screen, wireless streaming, linking, access technologies...
I could go on, but you see my time costs money.
What this magnificent company that we all love to death (pun intended) is guidance. It needs a B&O Steve Jobs.
Another thing on the cultural difference thingy...
There's very little "new-rich" money in Europe. Even wealthy people don't show off their wealth. It's not even socially accepted to "show-off".
So I'm sure the spending habits on B&O is different for Europeans, who tend to see what does my money actually buy me, rather than "this is the most expensive" I'll take it.
In Russia for example it's not uncommon for luxury brands to mark up their prices, as to some a 1500 euro LV bag is better than the identical once priced as MSRP for 1200 euro. Go figure.
bayerische:What I would start with is Design. The design of late isn't what came out from Struer 20 years ago.
Which is nice, because it is now 20 years later, not 20 years ago
bayerische:Perhaps this new design, is Asia driven? I mean the cultural differences are huge, also what lures peoples attention. I haven't felt "I must have it" from a B&O design since the BV9. Ten years!
Aww come on, I have only been on the forum since late 2007, and even I can remember the discussions when the BV9 came out. Most were saying that the ALT tweeter was silly, and that the perfect proportions of the BV5 were ruined (NB: to me, the BV5 looks very old now, while BV9 looks a bit clumsy in the modern semi-frameless design fashion but still OK - that's how fast the times go).
Regarding advertising, I have noticed a marked increase in local / national newspaper ads during the last year or so.
--mika
Mika, I meant the BV5. I always liked the BV9 better though. Why I have one.
bayerische: Mika, I meant the BV5. I always liked the BV9 better though. Why I have one.
And I dislike the BV9 with that silly ALT sticking out of the centre and chunky frame. You see, design is completely objective.
Your design likes or dislikes are not the primary reason why sales are down 16% in Europe. The BV11 is great, the BL18s are superb, BL3s great for their size. I hardly can name a single person who dislikes those products. However, almost none of them will pay the money for them though.
moxxey:And I dislike the BV9 with that silly ALT sticking out of the centre and chunky frame. You see, design is completely objective. Your design likes or dislikes are not the primary reason why sales are down 16% in Europe. The BV11 is great, the BL18s are superb, BL3s great for their size. I hardly can name a single person who dislikes those products. However, almost none of them will pay the money for them though.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
bayerische:Mika, I meant the BV5. I always liked the BV9 better though. Why I have one.
Yes, you know that I know
Chris Townsend:I always thought it odd, but try watching a film or music and then moving the 11 left and right. The sound changes considerably when it's off axis and I've always wandered wether the Alt would negate that!
This is most likely caused by changes in the constructive and destructive interference between the left and right loudspeakers - particularly when they're both playing the same audio channel (i.e. a Centre Front, or in the case of a dual mono 2.0 signal).
If you make a speaker group where only one of them is playing, I suspect that you would have a considerably less noticeable effect.
If this is the artefact that you're hearing, then this would be made more noticeable by loudspeakers with a wider polar pattern, since you would get more signal interference when you're off-axis.
Cheers
-g
expoman: Something like continued growth in Asia and continuing decline in Europe?
Something like continued growth in Asia and continuing decline in Europe?
Crystal ball worked.
Geoff Martin: Chris Townsend:I always thought it odd, but try watching a film or music and then moving the 11 left and right. The sound changes considerably when it's off axis and I've always wandered wether the Alt would negate that! This is most likely caused by changes in the constructive and destructive interference between the left and right loudspeakers - particularly when they're both playing the same audio channel (i.e. a Centre Front, or in the case of a dual mono 2.0 signal). If you make a speaker group where only one of them is playing, I suspect that you would have a considerably less noticeable effect. If this is the artefact that you're hearing, then this would be made more noticeable by loudspeakers with a wider polar pattern, since you would get more signal interference when you're off-axis. Cheers -g
The classic dual slit interference experiment/demonstration!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Just reading news, Loewe rescued by former top Bang Olufsen Managers. Wtf ?!
Gatex: Just reading news, Loewe rescued by former top Bang Olufsen Managers. Wtf ?!
Yup.
And ex-Apple, ex-Lowe as well as ex-B&O.
Enough EXs to fill a Mormon divorce court (if such a thing exists) ... or to make for excellence !
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/16/loewe-sale-idUSL5N0KQ46K20140116
BeoNut since '75
elephant: Gatex: Just reading news, Loewe rescued by former top Bang Olufsen Managers. Wtf ?! Yup. And ex-Apple, ex-Lowe as well as ex-B&O. Enough EXs to fill a Mormon divorce court (if such a thing exists) ... or to make for excellence ! http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/16/loewe-sale-idUSL5N0KQ46K20140116
Wonder who they are?
Maybe Tony Fadell is part of it? He has 3.2 Billion dollars now that Google bought out Nest.
Anyone know what Kalle Hvidt Nelsen is up to these days?
CEO at Topsil Semiconductor Materials A/S
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
How about Torben B?
expoman: How about Torben B?
Torben B was a disaster for B&O. After destroying Lego and moving on to destroying B&O, he made a move with Pandora, which was also destroyed.
The latter will not be missed by anyone, Lego was subsequently saved by undoing what Torben B did. What will happen to B&O, remains up in the air.
They are getting the bones of Loewe for nothing. If the former Loewe were a US company I would bet my last dollar that this is a "celebrity" management buyout sham that will net them tens of millions on an IPO and eventually leave a new pile of bones for the shareholders to fight over after they cash in.
Do you really think they can re-enter the same stagnant market they just betrayed? They obviously burned bridges with their former suppliers. How will they handle service and warranty? Why was there never an investigation of the 2 stock rumors that raised the share price dramatically, only to be unfounded? Why do BeoWorlders not hold them to the same scrutiny they do B&O?
+1 👍
There is a tv - and there is a BV
soundproof: expoman: How about Torben B? Torben B was a disaster for B&O. After destroying Lego and moving on to destroying B&O, he made a move with Pandora, which was also destroyed. The latter will not be missed by anyone, Lego was subsequently saved by undoing what Torben B did. What will happen to B&O, remains up in the air.
Is he at Electrolux now?
Amazing how anyone will continue to hire this worthless executive....
bayerische: soundproof: expoman: How about Torben B? Torben B was a disaster for B&O. After destroying Lego and moving on to destroying B&O, he made a move with Pandora, which was also destroyed. The latter will not be missed by anyone, Lego was subsequently saved by undoing what Torben B did. What will happen to B&O, remains up in the air. Is he at Electrolux now? Amazing how anyone will continue to hire this worthless executive....
your mommmmy . Torben is a really good guy.
Yes, he is a nice guy - I have meet him several times.
But he had no success with the company (B&O).
Or rather not enough to strenghten the firm in order to carry it through the crisis that came after.
Actually he was a board member at Pandora already at the time he was B&O/CEO
MM
If my memory serves me well is Tue the first CEO who does not have any 'directorships' - outside B&O.
He goes all in - knows that this is a 'full time job'.
That strategy seems to begin to pay off now.
While the Kirk family had the in name only president of Lego, TBS was the acting president, and in charge of the track the company chose in the 1990s, a track that proved disastrous for Lego, and which almost led to its demise. It's become a business case study of what not to do. One of many deliberations on the topic:
http://www.strategy-business.com/article/07306?pg=all
Unfortunately, the same approach was tried at B&O: branch out in diverse directions, don't bother about consistency among product ranges, stretch the brand thin and go for incremental sales through increasing the number of outlets, in B&O's case, the B1 stores. That blew up.
Pandora was just a flash-in-the-pan effort to exploit a jewelry craze, if you got in early and got out in time, you made a bundle, if not - you were left holding nothing.
Lego has regained its former strength by consolidating around what it was best at ...
Gatex: bayerische: soundproof: expoman: How about Torben B? Torben B was a disaster for B&O. After destroying Lego and moving on to destroying B&O, he made a move with Pandora, which was also destroyed. The latter will not be missed by anyone, Lego was subsequently saved by undoing what Torben B did. What will happen to B&O, remains up in the air. Is he at Electrolux now? Amazing how anyone will continue to hire this worthless executive.... your mommmmy . Torben is a really good guy.
I'm sure he is a great guy, but worthless at running a company, which history has shown us.
bno have so much potential it's frightening
Flappo: bno have so much potential it's frightening
Crikey. Flappo in shock positive B&O comment? :)
Yeah, I agree. They just need to get the word out there. Although the BL18s had a full page news feature in Stuff magazine recently, I've never seen a B&O speaker review in any UK magazine (including ours). Their PR department just doesn't push hard enough! They are very good getting journalists to product launches, but appear to be poor convincing magazines to review their kit. I think they just expect them to volunteer to review it, which rarely happens.
I fully agree, B&O has so much to offer, and especially with the new speaker line up. But speakers can not live on their own, B&O need to have great music and TV systems that are attractive. BV1 and BV11 seems to sell OK.
I really cross my fingers, and I do hope that customers in the future also will go for quality systems.
bno are in the same sort of position apple were before the ipod
they've got the gear , now all they've got to is let people know !!!