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I received the following from the shop in regard to my ailing Beomaster 4500 repair. This BM 4500 after 4 or 5 minutes lets off a screech very much like when you are recording and get the microphone too close to the speakers while monitoring….. only LOUDER!
Is this good news or bad?
“There are bad caps and cooked resistors inside, the tuner programming not working, but so far I do not hear screeching sound.”
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Hi Jeff.
I don't know if this is pertinent to your fault, but I had a beolab 3500 with a similar problem. At power on it made a horrible wailing sound at full volume, and before it could be disconnected destroyed it's drivers. I suspect either faulty STK modules, or the I2C tone control volume chip was faulty. I never investigated this further due to the cost, but hearing about the symptom jogged my memory.
Colin.
cozza: Hi Jeff. I don't know if this is pertinent to your fault, but I had a beolab 3500 with a similar problem. At power on it made a horrible wailing sound at full volume, and before it could be disconnected destroyed it's drivers. I suspect either faulty STK modules, or the I2C tone control volume chip was faulty. I never investigated this further due to the cost, but hearing about the symptom jogged my memory. Colin.
Hi Colin,
Thank you for the information.
My repair shop said they expected, prior to seeing the 4500, that the repair would be simple and easy anticipating an IF failure, which apparently was not the case.
Bad capacitors and a few fried resistors should not be horrible, IF that is all it is.
My understanding was something failed causing the 4500 to produce “white noise” at FULL volume. I don’t know about the white noise, but the FULL volume I can attest to. Point of pact I didn’t think that amp could produce anything THAT loud!
I am in a waiting pattern to see what the final verdict is.
I wonder how much you gonna spend to have this thing repaired. I have about 25 of those BM4500's....
Brengen & Ophalen
Leslie: I wonder how much you gonna spend to have this thing repaired. I have about 25 of those BM4500's....
Are you saving them until the market price goes back up??
Regards Graham
Hi Leslie,
It’s worse than that. Aside from the internal problems some idiot chopped the power cord to about 4 inches and there is a moderate scratch on the polished cover.
However until I had problems with my Beomaster 4500 it was by FAR my favourite amplifier.
In hindsight, from what I have “learned” about amplifiers on this forum I now believe what I had was a very marvelous and beneficial partial failure of various components that gave it such a rich, mellow, and outstandingly REAL sound.
I expect that if it can be fixed with everything back to specs it won’t sound anything like it did, which is a shame.
I say this because I have been told here on this forum that the amplifier in the Beomaster 4500 and my BeoCenter 9000 are EXACTLY the same amplifier….. and while it sounds perfectly fine, it is not remotely like the soft intoxicating sound my Beomaster 4500 used to deliver.
So back to your question, I don’t know as Benny hasn’t given me an estimate yet. Benny said it would be a really inexpensive repair as he assumed the IF had gone bad, which was not the case. Now he finds bad caps and some fried resistors….. but no white noise at FULL volume.
So I don’t know how much this is gonna cost.
Then there is the shipping issue. I don’t know what is going on but it cost me something like $500 including duty to ship one way to Denmark. I paid UNDER $50 to ship it to Benny in Georgia and that was priority WITH tracking.
Perhaps the Netherlands is a lot less costly as compared to Denmark, but in any case, we are not there yet. I need to have an estimate.
If weight stays below 10kg WW shipping will cost you 59 euro and that includes insurance, tracking and sign-for. PM me if you're interested. On the other hand, have to check first if BM4500 can be modified to 110VAC
Btw, in my case it's just one way shipping :-) and you have a donor left for spare parts..
Leslie:if BM4500 can be modified to 110VAC
Last time I checked this is possible, just required jumper/lead change at the transformer.
But, that was a while ago and I could be imagining things. Best check again.
Beo4 'til I die!
joeyboygolf:Are you saving them until the market price goes back up??
Not really, most of the cases you can buy them here for peanuts and as you might know the glasspanels can be more worth than the whole unit specially if the topplate is damaged...
Piaf,
I'm very sorry to hear your BM4500 is giving you trouble. I know if the same quirks were coming from my 4.5K, I would panic.
I'm not convinced your particular 4500 was "one of one" having a pleasant fault causing a better sound. Of the two (small sample size, I know) 4500's I have heard, I can safely say the BM4500 deserves some credit - these amps are truly great.
That is impressive!
I have a large basement and I don't think I have the extra space for 25 receivers!
Looks like it can be modified according to the SM
I haven't told you about the qty of 4500 cords and grams Evan :-) ( which I won't).
Evan: Piaf, I'm very sorry to hear your BM4500 is giving you trouble. I know if the same quirks were coming from my 4.5K, I would panic. I'm not convinced your particular 4500 was "one of one" having a pleasant fault causing a better sound. Of the two (small sample size, I know) 4500's I have heard, I can safely say the BM4500 deserves some credit - these amps are truly great.
Hi Evan,
It is all part of the dubious joy of owning antique electronics….. but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
As to the remarkable sound, I think it was Peter who said something to the effect that I had an unusual offering from the factory. From my imperfect memory I “believe” Peter said the 4500 was a decent amp, but not remarkable. [If I misquoted Peter, I apologize.]
In any case my 4500 WAS remarkable.
I am waiting to see how much repairing it is going to set me back, as my Beomaster 2400 is hanging on by a thread.
Assuming the BM 4500 gets fixed and maybe the power cord replaced the plan is to take the 4500 out of the shipping box, pop the 2400 in and ship it to Benny in Georgia.
THEN, assuming all goes well the general plan is the ship the Beomaster 4400 to Benny and have him rebuild it correctly. This beast settled down a year ago to a rather pleasant sounding amp, BUT it smoldered and burnt WAY, WAY too much, not to mention all those dramatic personality changes for me to believe it is going to last.
In regard to the Beomaster 4400, let me make this clear, my Beomaster 2400 gives off the occasional whiff of burning electronics odor periodically, which causes me no small amount of concern, the 4400 was like a barbeque of electronic burning, filling my entire house with that God-awful aroma.
Thanks for the kind words!
Leslie: Btw, in my case it's just one way shipping :-) and you have a donor left for spare parts..
You know that I hold you in very, very high regard. Anything from you is going to be excellent!
However I would at least like to hear what Benny says about my 4500.
OK?
Benny found the following:
The amp has over heated and I need to replace electrolyte caps & resistors plus output IC chip on it. The tuner search & program keys are not working because of deformed keyboard bracket which I can fix.
Benny wants $260.40 for the repair.
I am a principled guy, I figure I broke this amp driving too many speakers while my McIntosh (home theatre) was in for repair, so I broke it, I feel the need to fix it.
I was raised to be a responsible person, so here I was irresponsible and I need to make it right.
Piaf:The tuner search & program keys are not working because of deformed keyboard bracket which I can fix.
Deformed keyboard bracket? Which BM4500 are we talking about?
Leslie: Piaf:The tuner search & program keys are not working because of deformed keyboard bracket which I can fix. Deformed keyboard bracket? Which BM4500 are we talking about?
Snap Leslie, that's exactly what I was thinking!
Benny is talking about the FM programming section.
Jeff, what has a deformed keyboard bracket to do with FM programming section. Programming and all other settings is done by a glasspanel activated through rubber conducting pegs.
Leslie: Jeff, what has a deformed keyboard bracket to do with FM programming section. Programming and all other settings is done by a glasspanel activated through rubber conducting pegs.
I am probably not qualified to answer your question, but judging from my Beogram 4500 CD player, the controls mostly didn’t work because the glass and those pegs were not making proper contact. The CD player was an easy fix.
If I can take that experience and learn from it, I deduce that the bracket that holds all the connecting pegs has been bent (deformed in Benny’s words) and that bending it back to its original position will restore the radio programming feature.
Come to think of it, I don’t know that I ever used the radio in the Beomaster 4500. Funny, that, as I was fascinated by the radio programming in the BeoCenter 9000 and I am sure it is exactly the same set-up.
Anyway all this is just an enthusiast’s guess of what a technician’s assessment. Still, I bet I got it right….. if so, what a refreshing change for me! Ha!
Piaf:If I can take that experience and learn from it, I deduce that the bracket that holds all the connecting pegs has been bent (deformed in Benny’s words) and that bending it back to its original position will restore the radio programming feature.
I would go with Bennys repair and you fix the bend bracket yourself, as other members has experienced the same failure, it would be helpful to know exactly what was done, when Benny finish, someone may have to fix the same on 25 units. It is some $$ but I think it will be worth it, and you saved another one. Considering the price, thats less than I charge before opening my tool bag.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Søren Mexico: Piaf:If I can take that experience and learn from it, I deduce that the bracket that holds all the connecting pegs has been bent (deformed in Benny’s words) and that bending it back to its original position will restore the radio programming feature. I would go with Bennys repair and you fix the bend bracket yourself, as other members has experienced the same failure, it would be helpful to know exactly what was done, when Benny finish, someone may have to fix the same on 25 units. It is some $ but I think it will be worth it, and you saved another one. Considering the price, thats less than I charge before opening my tool bag.
I would go with Bennys repair and you fix the bend bracket yourself, as other members has experienced the same failure, it would be helpful to know exactly what was done, when Benny finish, someone may have to fix the same on 25 units. It is some $ but I think it will be worth it, and you saved another one. Considering the price, thats less than I charge before opening my tool bag.
Søren,
You are so funny and often make me laugh: “Considering the price, that’s less than I charge before opening my tool bag.”
My initial reaction was good grief that is a lot of money, but then I got to thinking about it, what is requited is a lot of work, so I am not complaining.
The mitigating factor for me is my “to do” list and before the BM 2400 arrives on Benny’s desk, I know in advance what he found wrong in the BM 4500 is a walk in the park next to what the 2400 will require.
It is to the point that it probably does not make economic sense to repair the BM 2400.
Why do I say this? Hindsight, pure and simple. When I got these Beomasters I didn’t know anything about them. Point in fact I didn’t want or have any use for the BM 2400, it just came with the deal to purchase the Beogram 4002.
As such I was most cavalier in my treatment of the BM 2400. By accident I found out that it could power all my household speakers by back-feeding though the switch box I was using with the McIntosh 2255.
The difference between the BM 4500 and the BM 2400 is the 2400 has no self-defense against being over-driven and over-driven it was. That was 7 years ago and the little amp has had an easy life since, but oh do I remember that amp got really hot powering all those speakers. It gave no indication that it minded, but surely it must have.
This little amp continues to this day and with every lamp still illuminating, but it is showing distress, and as such I seldom ask it to perform.
Maybe the 2400 repair will surprise me, I just have to wait and see.
Now when you say someone may have to do the same repair on 25 units, you can only mean Leslie, who is the only one I know that 25 units of ANY B&O product.
I think this was some kind of sarcastic remark from your buddy. I have my own "Benny" here who does repairs on all my units and all properly fixed. Good luck with bending your rubber pegs or "brackets".
Leslie: I think this was some kind of sarcastic remark from your buddy. I have my own "Benny" here who does repairs on all my units and all properly fixed. Good luck with bending your rubber pegs or "brackets".
Great photo, I should know who it is, but I don’t. Looks like the silent movie period.
You may be right; Techs are a “different” breed.
My “outgoing” personality tends to annoy techs of any stripe, so I do my BEST to keep it succinct, to the point, and leave out any sort of “emotional” commentary.
When I took my McIntosh crossover and later speakers themselves to the local shop that re-foamed my MC 120.2 speakers they told me to go into the back. OMG, the “lived in” look is one thing, but this place had the “No survivors” look,” and I knew this was the wrong place for me.
Ditto the shop downtown that I took my Beogram 8000 in for repair. A real “good ‘ol boy” group, that one, with 6 guys talking about everything BUT stereos, ignored me completely for about 15 minutes, and finally one of them said, “What do you want?” I told them I was there to pick up my turntable and they said, “It's in the back.” Clearly that meant I had to go in the back and get it myself.
OK, so I went and found a Pioneer receiver sitting on top of my Beogram with a note on it, “Can’t fix this thing.” Another place I didn’t belong.
As for Benny, he may have been kidding me, who knows? If he was, I didn’t pickup on his humour, which is alright. I wasn’t looking for a friend in Georgia; I was in search of a qualified technician who takes great pride in their work.
Just do a comprehensive repair and I pay the bill. That is the extent of the relationship I seek. Works for me. If we become friendly, all the better, but that is icing on the cake.
Well, let me know, I have a well skilled technician over here who's a member and friend as well and ask fair rates for repair of B&O equipment. Good luck my friend! Hope your eyes are doing well now?
Piaf: It is to the point that it probably does not make economic sense to repair the BM 2400.
If 'economic sense' means paying more to repair it (including r/t shippinig) then it's worth, it won't make sense. Take a look at the completed auction prices on eBay. And by selling yours as a parts unit, you'll earn around $50 toward a replacement. Of course, if you have a sentimental attachement to yours, that's another matter.
(I hope someone doesn't say that's the 'american way' again
Leslie: Well, let me know, I have a well skilled technician over here who's a member and friend as well and ask fair rates for repair of B&O equipment. Good luck my friend! Hope your eyes are doing well now?
It is WAY too soon to “give up” on Benny. I mean the man hasn’t done anything wrong, and so far he got right on my project as soon as he was over the flu and gave me what I regard as a reasonable estimate for repair. You really can’t ask for more.
As for my eyes….. oh good grief. Had I known I’d have these floating clouds every time I blink and things flashing that aren’t there, I probably would not have had the surgery.
That said, annoying as it truly is, the holes the surgeon drilled into my eye prevent a sudden increase in pressure, so I “suppose “ it was worth it. Sort of.
But thanks for asking!
I haven't said you have to give up, that's up to you. The only thing is the costs you mentioned is far to high for repairing a BM4500. 260$? My goodness... Again, up to you! As for your eyes, the surgery gave some results right?
MediaBobNY: Piaf: It is to the point that it probably does not make economic sense to repair the BM 2400. If 'economic sense' means paying more to repair it (including r/t shippinig) then it's worth, it won't make sense. Take a look at the completed auction prices on eBay. And by selling yours as a parts unit, you'll earn around $50 toward a replacement. Of course, if you have a sentimental attachement to yours, that's another matter. (I hope someone doesn't say that's the 'american way' again
Hi Bob, The point is moot now as Benny just notified me my Beomaster 4500 is done. I spoke to him on the phone, a very polite man who sounded most sincere. And wow, what FAST service. I’m gonna pop my 2400 in the same box I shipped the 4500 in and let Benny have a go at it. Assuming the workmanship is good, which I DO believe, I am one very happy camper! And Bob I wouldn’t think of saying “American way,” as I am American. Jeff
Hi Bob,
The point is moot now as Benny just notified me my Beomaster 4500 is done.
I spoke to him on the phone, a very polite man who sounded most sincere.
And wow, what FAST service.
I’m gonna pop my 2400 in the same box I shipped the 4500 in and let Benny have a go at it.
Assuming the workmanship is good, which I DO believe, I am one very happy camper!
And Bob I wouldn’t think of saying “American way,” as I am American.
Coming back to your FM programming section "bending" bracket issue. I still don't understand what your "bending" problem is. What do you want to fix yourself??
I used this Beomaster 4500 as a temporary replacement for my McIntosh 2255 while it was being re-built by the factory. It never occurred to me that running three pairs of inefficient 8 ohms speakers would damage this amp. But it did.
The BM 4500 didn’t succumb during this period, but hung on for a couple of years, but the damage was done.
Here is what Benny found:
Replaced output amplifier chip, electrolyte caps in regulator circuit and cooked resistors in the power amp section, rebuilt keyboard and replaced power cord.
Benny commented that the output amplifier chip is usually “bulletproof,” but I managed to prove otherwise. Sigh.
Benny may have charged too much for a Beomaster 4500, based on its value today, but not for the work performed. Plus there is an unconditional 6 month warrantee. Not bad on used equipment.
Cant wait to "hear" it play, when do you expect it back ?
Søren Mexico: Cant wait to "hear" it play, when do you expect it back ?
Hi Søren,
Benny said he will mail it out Monday, so it is “possible” that I will have it on Friday, but more likely Tuesday or Wednesday of the following week.
Should be very, very interesting to see if it sounds anything like it used to. I rather doubt this, but I am sure it will sound good as it will be matched with the S-45.2 speakers.
I have never seen the benefit to squashing one’s youthful enthusiasm, so like a kid; I am all excited at the prospect of the 4500’s return. Finally I get to line it back up with the Beogram 4500, which has gone useless with its 7-pin DIN connector. No longer.
Then Benny can rebuild my Beomaster 2400, which is really hanging by a thread. (So much so that I stopped using it.)
And because I know it is close to your heart, once the Beomaster 2400 is returned I plan to send Benny the Beomaster 4400. I spoke to Benny on the phone today about the 4400 and he said he would be happy to take it on. I gave him a highly cursory history of what has happened to this 4400 and I believe Benny found even this cryptic description intimidating. Good thing I didn’t go into detail as he might have refused it.
But right now the only game in town (for me) is the LONG awaited return of my Beomaster 4500.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Piaf: The point is moot now as Benny just notified me my Beomaster 4500 is done. I spoke to him on the phone, a very polite man who sounded most sincere. And wow, what FAST service. I’m gonna pop my 2400 in the same box I shipped the 4500 in and let Benny have a go at it. And Bob I wouldn’t think of saying “American way,” as I am American.
The point is moot now as Benny just notified me my Beomaster 4500 is done. I spoke to him on the phone, a very polite man who sounded most sincere. And wow, what FAST service. I’m gonna pop my 2400 in the same box I shipped the 4500 in and let Benny have a go at it.
Jeff, I was referring to the 2400. It's cheaper to purchase a replacement for this than a 4500, and you mentioned that it has more wrong with it than your 4500, thus probably higher cost to fix it.
And yes, I figured you were an American since you've mentioned FL several times in the past. I was referring to someone else with my comment.
Piaf: Great photo, I should know who it is, but I don’t. Looks like the silent movie period.
Ben Turpin
How will that 4500 of yours sound?
Mmm... Fingers crossed I guess!
Jacques
MediaBobNY: Piaf: The point is moot now as Benny just notified me my Beomaster 4500 is done. I spoke to him on the phone, a very polite man who sounded most sincere. And wow, what FAST service. I’m gonna pop my 2400 in the same box I shipped the 4500 in and let Benny have a go at it. And Bob I wouldn’t think of saying “American way,” as I am American. Jeff, I was referring to the 2400. It's cheaper to purchase a replacement for this than a 4500, and you mentioned that it has more wrong with it than your 4500, thus probably higher cost to fix it. And yes, I figured you were an American since you've mentioned FL several times in the past. I was referring to someone else with my comment.
Hummmm. Yea, I may need to rethink the 2400 as they are cheaper than dirt on eBay. I guess the decision will be made for me IF I am delighted with the restoration of the BM 4500. If, and that is a big IF it impresses big time then there is NO comparing a “It works great” sale on eBay as compared to a fully rebuilt Beomaster.
As to my origins, I am a Florida Cracker, the real deal from the “Sunshine City,” St. Petersburg.
Leslie: Piaf: Great photo, I should know who it is, but I don’t. Looks like the silent movie period. Ben Turpin
Ben Turpin, I should have known that!
Absolutely silent era, although he may have continued into the sound era as well. Finally something that is “before my time.”