ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
beaker:Leslie, could you do the lamp holders on the 608-610s with the same material or would the heat be an issue? They always seem to be very brittle. One of mine shoots across the room if I have my 610 on for a while as it must expand just enough when heated! To be honest Beaker, I don't know. Probably you mean the connectors for the tubes? If that's the case sure you could buy them as a loose part? I don't know how you do all this amazing work. Do you have previous experience in any of these fields or are you a talented amateur? Which ever, you have my admiration for both the work that you do and for the results that you achieve on projects that to me appear totally impossible.
To be honest Beaker, I don't know. Probably you mean the connectors for the tubes? If that's the case sure you could buy them as a loose part?
Not a talented amateur, just a matter of doing it and try try and try. I do have technical skills since I was 15 so 43 years of experience now and I guess my employer Honeywell gave me all the opportunities to improve my technical skills during the 37 years of service. What a great company this is...
Brengen & Ophalen
Anyway, just got another pair of trumpet stands which was (again) not in perfect condition.
So lets do some sanding and give it a paint job..
Missing one bolt :-(
I love mine . You remember ? That was the first time I came to see you ;)
double post
Another 608 amp. In mint condition except for the inside. Working on it..
Leslie:Sure I remember, with the misses...
Yes
We will come back together as soon as she will be ready again for 10 hours driving in a day
If you can't get one, make one...
Washers, bolts and nuts.
And 608 almost ready for take off...
Fixed my completely dead LC1. New cap and it's working again, with the remote and by hand.
And a new top plate..
Would be interested to see how this system work next time I will come to see you ;).
By the way, nice saving, one more time !
Will keep one aside for you my friend, got this one for ......
Beautiful job on the cosmetics!
Just a little advice.
I see that you selected the new axial blue Vishay BC capacitor to keep it looking original.
The 021 and 031 series are the cheapest "lowest quality" - not long-life at all. They are not suitable for any power-related circuits, having very low ripple-damping ability.
Much better to select the 118, 120 or 138 series capacitors, so that you would not have to worry about replacements again in your lifetime.
Menahem
Menahem, thanks for the feedback, however I only replaced the blue cap. Are you talking about that one? Btw, the original one was yellow/orange..
I don't have the schematics at hand but I believe the capacitor in questionhere (the blue 220uF - looks like a 40V type or so) merely works in the supplyof the controlling electronics. This is in no way a heavy loaded circuit with a lotof ripple potential and the blue cap will be fine for the next 25 years.No need to go audiophile or ballistic here.The original golden/orange one sounds like a ROE (Roederstein) axial type (and THEY are known to fail!).
Martin
So two comments from the experts regarding the LC1 cap and left in doubt?
From what I understand, Martin likes to use the most basic of components, and in many areas, I certainly agree with him. No point in wasting money if there is no real benefit.
But when it comes to capacitors, which have the shortest lifetime of any components, I prefer to use more robust units, rated for 105 degrees Celsius, instead of the cheapest units rated for only 85 degrees. The 105C units usually cost the same, or only a few cents more than the 85C units, but last many times longer under the same conditions.
Vishay, whose predecessor BC Philips made all the caps used in older B&O's, now makes a much wider selection from which to choose very suitable units for each part of the circuit.
From the Vishay website - At 85C ambient temperature, an 85C cap will last about 1000-2000 hours, but a 105C cap will last 50,000 to 100,000 hours. At that same 85C temp, a 125C capacitor will last 500,000 to 2 million hours.
So, the original caps in all stereos are 85C units, and if you install the exact same-rated replacement, no doubt that it'll work, but it will last much longer with a more robust 105C unit! That means much lower long-term ownership costs.
So, there is a very tangible and measurable benefit regarding reliability of any appliance, by using more robust capacitors.
Many of the Chinese capacitors marked as 85C, actually fail at 40-50C, which is barely above room temperature here on a hot summer's day, so that's why most new electronics today don't last very long.
Read this article from my website.
Leslie: So two comments from the experts regarding the LC1 cap and left in doubt?
Leslies doubt remover methinks - bit downhttp://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/37367.aspx
Menahem is right about the temperature specs; If you often have around 70 degC or more,you should ideally consider another type of capacitor.Very true.I would do so too, even with my limited knowledge in matters capacitors.Just think of the cheap 70 degC caps that B&O fitted in the early 1960s valve things.They work in very hot areas and are definitely going to break down very soon. - At least I'm sure they will eventually.
But no electrolytic capacitor will last forever so I suppose the question basically is;Are you ready to buy a new 105deg, high-ripplecurrent, low-ESR capacitor and replacethe one you already replaced again right away or are you prepared to just enjoy your light controller nowand take care of this in year 2039 in case the far-better-than-the-original capacitor you already fitted turns out toonly last this long?
I admit to knowing very little about capacitors and electronics in general, I have only about 40 years ofexperience so I suggest you listen to the expert with the website.
Anyway, I have made my point so I'll just pull out of this discussion.Enjoy your light controller.
I will listen to both experts but as an non electronic 43 years skilled dude I was in doubt. Thanks both for your comments.
I am far from an "expert" - I would classify myself as a "persistent and obstinate learner", with a healthy dislike for snake oil and unsubstantiated marketing hype.
And I try as best I can, to share my experience with others, so that they do not fall into the same traps which I have in the past!
Menahem, for me your still an expert and your website helped lots of people worldwide.
Cheers my friend!
Restoration now on 2 pair Beovox white RL7000's which has cosmetic issues.
Refoaming drivers, new cloths, new caps (expensive ones and ordinary ones, Martin is going to help to do my comparison on those two pairs ) white surrounds of the cabinets needs attention and cleaning.
All 4 cabinets are dismantled.
Going to start with the woofers first. Tomorrow finish of the foam surrounds.
Woofers finished, stands painted and surrounds with the silver stripe cleaned.
Now waiting for the "expensive" caps ordered and still need to make a picture (for Martin) of the cross-over boards with the original caps. Unfortunately I already removed the old caps but I have another pair RL7000 where this picture can be made of. I'm very curious what the sound result will be comparing one pair with the "expensive" and the ones of Martin.
Next thing will be reclothing the speaker frets.
By the way, I've bought a Jun Air compressor (Danish brand?) for my paint work :-) This one doesn't make any noise so that's a good thing for my neighbors...
Hopefully I'll finish my RL7000's next week.
In between some sanding and polishing work to do on one of my WB10 Beosystem 10 wallbracket.
https://plus.google.com/photos/112793489141580542769/albums/5665943962138629329?authkey=COvO9-3NnYroOA
Let's continue my RL7000 restoration...
Next filterboards to be recapped. One pair with Martins caps and the other with "expensive caps".
Got another pair RL7000's with the original caps. When finished I will do a hearing test what the result will be.
Excellent tutorial!
//Bo.A long list...
Thanks guys! Every spare time is spend on B&O restoration as much as I'm capable to do that. Must say that a lot of things has been learned from this community.
Today I received Martin's caps (got them for free as a test, thanks Martin, much appreciated). I can finish both pairs now and do my listening test hopefully this weekend. The weather is great but after work there's not much time left to work in the garden. Getting dark quite early.
Next week or the week after I need to go on a business trip to Norway to a place called Stord (company name Kvaerner. Any of you members who lives in that area?
No one from Norway for a meet and greet in Stord area?
Received straps and put RED LINE 7000 text on it.
Speakers almost finished. Have to make a speaker selector switch to compare all 4 sets regarding caps on cross-over boards (old, new, cheap and expensive ones).
Leslie, if you are available next week, I am definitely your man to do the blind test between both set of speakers ;)
That could be interesting !
Jacques, we're talking about 4 pairs now, 3 RL7000's and one RL140. Today I received my "El Cheapo" caps for the last pair so finally I can finish my last pair. Have to finish the 6 channel speaker selector switch that will be remote controlled. See you next week?
oh god, I missed part of the story ;). 6 channel speaker selector, remote controlled, of course
I'm ready for this test, next week would be a pleasure ;) I will bring one or 2 CDs I know well . Now, you have to choose on which amp you will make the test (a BC 9500 ?).
Leslie You da Man!!!! Your restoration work is absolutely phenomenal, the products that leave your home could be of a better standard than when they first left the B&O factory, this is in my humble opinion. Loving the white kick you are on right now as well. Keep up the good work my man, and I can't wait to see what you are working on next? Looking at your pictures/projects always puts a smile on my face!!!
Beocenter 8000, Beovision 7 32", MX 4000, MX 7000 with matching VCR, MX 1500, Avant 28 DVD, 2 Beo 4 DTV. Beocom 5000 with AV controls, Beolink 5000 (in need of some Major Repairs, Major help- needed with this!! Thanks in advance to anybody who could help)
Unfortunately we could not do the comparison (Beovox RL140/7000) cap test today Jacques, but once my 6 channel selector switch remote is fully operational I will invite you to do the hearing test.
In the mean time I got another pair of RL140's that needs refoaming, reclothing and "other" caps? Cloth for this pair will be in red, so I have two pairs in black, a pair of white, pair of blue and one pair in red to do the caps hearing test. Pictures soon!
Thanks @Nahidul for your comments! Another boost to continue.
I'm looking forward to this, but bear in mind that capacitors need about 200 hours to form ("burn in"), so a listening test directly after first use is likely to be inconclusive.
That applies to both generic and audiophile capacitors.
Still I will give it a try Menahem, they are all new except for the one that still has the original caps, so I guess the comparison does not change?
Anyway, the last RL140 reclothed, this time in red. Also new caps and drivers refoamed...
You have the blue one, the white one and now the red one, are you preparing something for the Euro 2016 in France (football/soccer cup) ? ;)
It was nice to see you, discuss, eat some cheese and to see some of your jewels (most of them not seen in the forum ;)) !
Next time, we will see the result of this recapping challenge !
Hi Leslie,
I hope you are keeping well, I just have quick question and that was; The golden Beo4 I want one, and obviously have worked out that its a home made piece so how's it done? What's the process for spraying the Beo4 gold? I was considering doing the same to one of my early Beo4's but I also really don't want to lose the Bang & Olufsen logo at the bottom of the remote. I'm assuming that the logo is replaced with a new one, but where would I get one from? and what type of metal paint did you use? Have you considered doing one white to match the rest of your white items? Have you ever considered changing the colour of the Beo4 wall brackets to match each remote? Thanks in advance for your help Leslie.
Regards Nahidul