ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Netflix starts this month with 4K !
Lot of new series are made in 4K!
Also good upscaling gives clearly a better picture from 2K content to 4K!
Watching photo's on a 4K TV looks also much better that on a 2K one.
The BBC and NHK are aiming for 8k , so 4k is a stop gap. H265 can compress 8k down to incredible levels , you can stream it over Fast DSL even.
If you're happy wasting your time and money on 4k , be my guest.
I'm waiting this one out.
Also only 3 out of all the 4k tv's have hdmi 2 , so much for their future proofing
Jonathan: What I don't understand is, how fussy are everyone's eyes??? Do you really see that much difference? If you look at an Avant or a BV3, the picture is incredible. I have a BV3 in my loungeroom, and people who come to my place are astonished by the picture and sound. They're even more astonished when they find out it is a CRT tv!! Now looking at a 1080 tv, how much better can it really be considering the environment most people watch tv? Why would you need to upgrade a tv every year, two years, three years? It just sounds like bragging rights. It just doesn't make sense to me...
What I don't understand is, how fussy are everyone's eyes??? Do you really see that much difference?
If you look at an Avant or a BV3, the picture is incredible. I have a BV3 in my loungeroom, and people who come to my place are astonished by the picture and sound. They're even more astonished when they find out it is a CRT tv!!
Now looking at a 1080 tv, how much better can it really be considering the environment most people watch tv? Why would you need to upgrade a tv every year, two years, three years? It just sounds like bragging rights.
It just doesn't make sense to me...
If you want a bigger Screen - e.g. 50 inches - you want HD tv, too. With sky and via sat this is available.
I can assure you, it is a much better viewing experience than with the Avant or BV3-32.As a previous owner of these I can compare.
Ralf
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
B&O has a very good TV on offer; the Beovision 11. This TV gets very good reviews, and leaves little to be desired; good picture, good sound, good options etc. More important, it's beautiful, a piece of art, like a real B&O Tv should be. In that respect, it's without competitors. And regarding the price; B&O always has been a expensive brand, I think in the days of the Beosound 9000 or the Avant TV prices were very high as well. So if that puts you off, it should always have put you off... If you keep waiting to buy a TV because of the fast technological advances (which are controversial), you can wait forever, because there's always The Great New Thing around the corner. In the mean time, I prefer enjoying my great B&O equipment...
bayerische:I don't know where you are located, but believe me, that kind of price for an early BV10 is impossible here.
Chris Townsend: I still don't think there has ever been a better tv than the Avant. I openly admit I get more of a smile out of seeing our 28 RF, than our 11. It sounds better too.
Maybe the Avant is much better than the LX6000 that I use (and love), but is nobody annoyed by the high frequency peep that every CRT television makes (although many people > 25 do not hear this), and the lack of HDMI inputs? And if I pause any DVD or media source, the picture is not completely steady. So I really want to upgrade to a more up-to-date second hand Beovision 10, although everyone thinks I am crazy to pay 2.5k on an old TV, instead of buing a Philips or Samsung TV. (BV11 is way too expensive for me).
Despite the peep I do love the deep colors though of the LX6000, compared to any flatscreen older than 3 years. I have not seen the BV10 in action, so I do not know what to expect.
Beosound 5 Encore + Beosystem 5500 + S45.2; BV7-40 MKV + BL7.1 + BL14.4+ AppleTV4; various link rooms with MCL2 A or MCL2 A/V + RL60.2 / CX100 / CX50 & Cona / IWS2000; BG4000; Beosystem 1200 + BV1600.
I put off getting a new tv for years , waiting for the next avant , imo the bv11 is it , It's quite literally got it all and i can't wait to get mine.
The Avant and the BV7 shared a number of core features.
Both for their time, had unbeatable world class pictures. The 11 has a very good picture, but it is not in the same league as the new OLED Tv's by Samsung and LG, which both have reference quality pictures. Note: i'm not talking about UHD/4K here. I know people will mention pixels fading on OLED over time, but I have had to put up with dynamic contrast in the evenings since day one, so that just falls on deaf ears.
The Avant and BV7 both had DVD/Bluray players built in. The BV11 doesn't. I know you like Apple tv, and so do i, but it isn't as good as Bluray. Why can my 1Kg laptop have a BluRay player, but my 50 Kg TV not?
The Avant and BV7 had amazing sound which was world class. The BV11 has very good sound, but is naturally limited by its lack of volume. It needs a subwoofer(£1700)!
Naively when i bought my black BV11 i thought it would come with a black base which is not the case! I have a black BV11, with a red fret, on a silver stand, next to a white Beolab 14 sub(for the lack of bass and distortion), next to silver satellite stands with red frets. A complete visual mess.
The Avant and BV7 were black or silver(mostly) Cool and subtle.
I have owned and still own an Avant and a BV11, and recently a BV7. But the 11 in my eyes, does not inherit those aforementioned core qualities that the Avant did.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Totally agree Chris, and your point about about a Blu-ray player not being built in is an excellent one and something I too do not understand. B&O is still not as visually appealing as I want it to be. Yes, it has a soundbar, and that rivals competition, but because of everything that has to sit on brackets on the back it still looks messy in my opinion. I don't want to see mess anywhere, I want as much built in as can be.
I also agree about the picture on the BV11. Let's be honest, something like picture quality is very subjective as my eyes might pick up minor flaws that others wouldn't, so I can only speak for myself based on plenty of viewing experiences up to this point. I am still not satisfied and have seen problems with motion countless times and that is what has put me off. Ironically, the much loved Avant is also now showing problems with motion but I can forgive that as it is ancient and has definitely stood the test of time! Its got to blow up at some point! I remember the joy I had buying that (and also one for my Mum) at the time, remember it like it was yesterday. I want that same feeling and passion again but so far...
Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
I think you can see clearly a benefit from 65 inch. Remember that $K is not only a higher resolution, but also, much better colours and higher framerates. I read several revieuws that good 4K almost looks like 3D.
B&O must lower it's prices for 2K televisions drasticly now!
Just middeclas nowadays.
The Higher class is 4K !
Flappo: I put off getting a new tv for years , waiting for the next avant , imo the bv11 is it , It's quite literally got it all and i can't wait to get mine. In contrast he BV7 always seemed like a not quite there set for me , in fact most of the tv's from the avant until the 11 don't seem to have hit the right point of performance , value for money and features . As Lee pointed out they sure made some weird decisions in the past. Selling £5k tv's without a built in freeview module was a classic I recall !
I suppose it depends on what one wants from a TV.
Personally, I am not interested in a 'Smart' TV .
I probably will be considered biased since I bought one, but the BV 7-55 3D, with it's 512 zone full back lit panel, represents B & O TVs at their finest in terms of PQ.
Agreed
Too big and ostentatious for me , thx. The 11 in black visually disappears .
im using mine as a minitor fir my Mac mini Apple TV set up. But I don't want it to stand out too much.
the 7 55 is an amazing tv , it's just far too big , may as well go for a projector if you want a massive screen without it taking over the whole room.
Schuifschoen: The Higher class is 4K !
8K is the much higher class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M8-mww05hc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: Schuifschoen: The Higher class is 4K ! 8K is the much higher class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M8-mww05hc&feature=youtube_gdata_player MM
I can hardly wait for 128K!
Too long to list....
StUrrock:The danger for all TV screen manufacturers is that they are now perceived by many consumers as items that are to be replaced as often as one replaces his/her mobile phone. And more worryingly the general content available is being controlled by an ever decreasing and more powerful set of providers. 1984 anyone.......
And more worryingly the general content available is being controlled by an ever decreasing and more powerful set of providers.
1984 anyone.......
Pass the Soma........
You are right about the content providers... they are part of the 1% that the rest of us are funding. We have inadvertently facilitated 'Big Brother' through our passion for newer and better technology. The important information goes from us to the service provider or broadcaster, not the other way around!
Graham
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
And here is part of the problem. Invest in this, and then just change your panel intermittently at a relatively low cost. Contains a storage area at the back for all your Sky boxes etc.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/genevas-xxl-is-a-powerful-sound-system-wrapped-in-a-grand-piano/
Chris Townsend: And here is part of the problem. Invest in this, and then just change your panel intermittently at a relatively low cost. Contains a storage area at the back for all your Sky boxes etc. http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/genevas-xxl-is-a-powerful-sound-system-wrapped-in-a-grand-piano/
This is off-topic, but how can such a system produce good stereo sound? All the speakers are at the left. Look at this...
Wouter
B&O were making radiograms just like that in the 1950's. Isn't it strange that flat panels have the side effect of creating demand for massive support cabinets....... to the extent that the space taken up is far greater than the space taken by a CRT in the corner of a room.
You could do the same with numerous Ikea cabinets for under £100.... with separate Beolabs of course.
Essentially our flat screen tvs are going to end up bigger than our grand parents sets. I posted the advert as I see B&Os unique position of providing cosmetically appealing sets with superior sound, being eroded.
Chris Townsend: Essentially our flat screen tvs are going to end up bigger than our grand parents sets. I posted the advert as I see B&Os unique position of providing cosmetically appealing sets with superior sound, being eroded.
Chris, I didn't think your post was off-topic, mine was.
Schuifschoen: I think you can see clearly a benefit from 65 inch. Remember that $K is not only a higher resolution, but also, much better colours and higher framerates. I read several revieuws that good 4K almost looks like 3D.
Hmm - yes...But I have read several rewiews, saying that the new OLED screens in 'only' ordinary Full HD looks better than the 4K LED.The same way as plasma has always had better colours and black-level etc...LCD/LED is not the perfect technology -and it won't be just because it gets higher resolution...
So If I was to buy a new tv today, I would definitely go for a OLED instead of a 4K LCD/LED. I have no room for a 80" or bigger tv anyway, so I don't care that much about the resolution. And now they're talking 8K already...Oh my...
The full specification of UHDTV (as it is so far) calls for a broader colour range and higher frame rates - I'm not sure how many of todays 4K TV's support either. If you intend purchasing one I suggest you dig in and ask the question of the manufacturer (I doubt the retailers will have a clue).
I suspect many will only have 4K resolution displays without the increased colour range or ability for higher frame rates, meaning they neither meet the spec as it's understood today nor will be in anyway "futureproof" as the 4K system matures.
Maybe they should be called "4K ready" in the same way that many sets were purported to be "HD ready".
Ban boring signatures!
Steffen:. And now they're talking 8K already...Oh my...
Hi Steffen,
the Youtube video i linked to above is from 2011!
But don't expect 8K to be arrive soon.
First priority will be to sell the 4K's - and then, after a couple of years the 8K's will be praised as the new 'must have' for the consumers.
Its all about the moneyIts all about the dum dum duh dee dum dum
Millemissen: Its all about the moneyIts all about the dum dum duh dee dum dum MM
I had forgotten that song!
But you are right, it's all about the money. That's why I'm "waiting" for 128K. Because it will happen. It's silly, but the consumer is ultimately pretty silly.
Regarding OLED, I saw a curved one yesterday. It was cool. Price was pretty high at 8000 euro for a 55". I don't know if it even had speakers, probably did but it must sound like a tuna can.
However the OLED TV (Samsung) was playing some sort of demo loop. IMHO the colors where the most unnatural I've ever seen on a TV, way too strong. The contrast was over the top, it all just looked like a color cartoon with too strong ink! I watched the TV for 5 minutes, and felt dizzy. If this is OLED, not thank you!
bayerische:However the OLED TV (Samsung) was playing some sort of demo loop. IMHO the colors where the most unnatural I've ever seen on a TV, way too strong. The contrast was over the top, it all just looked like a color cartoon with too strong ink! I watched the TV for 5 minutes, and felt dizzy. If this is OLED, not thank you!
What you observed is highly dependent on where it was on demo, and the input settings.
This review illustrates what a Samsung OLED is capable of achieving.
http://www.avforums.com/review/samsung-s9-ke55s9c-curved-oled-tv-review.9369
Shame it's a samsung , I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole
I know they make the screens for bno but the guts , the things that differentiate the gear are very much bno , samsung's qc is laughable in comparison , believe me I know.
I had a samsung for 2 days , unreliable , badly made over complicated garbage.
I'll stick with the tried and tested led/lcd for the time being thx
bayerische: However the OLED TV (Samsung) was playing some sort of demo loop. IMHO the colors where the most unnatural I've ever seen on a TV, way too strong. The contrast was over the top, it all just looked like a color cartoon with too strong ink! I watched the TV for 5 minutes, and felt dizzy. If this is OLED, not thank you!
Never judge by the factory settings - you will always get a better result by finetuning the settings yourself.
Most tv sets even have a certain "Shop-demo" mode, where the picture have more contrast and colour - just to impress the customers...
-and if you find a store that still has Plasma tv's, you'll see that the picture often is darker -simply because it is set into "eco-mode" to save energy.Maybe that's why the plasmas didn't sell well - because they often stood beside LCD/LED's with way too much brightness/contrast/colour.The sad thing is that many people keep those settings when they get it home...I have seen really terrible picture quality at many of my friends Tv's... - orange skin color etc. Some of them allowed me to adjust the picture-settings - and they admitted that it became much better than the factory settings.
I guess B&O is the only Company that sell Tv's with decent factory settings ;-)
The interesting point I'd like to make is that the OP wants to buy a new TV, despite the fact that he's very happy with the one he has..
This mentality is the thing that is driving the 'need' for OLED, 4K, 128K, smart TVs etc. It's madness! What are you really missing out on? The differences are so marginal, that most people are just kidding themselves with new technologies. Either that, or they feel they're missing out on something because it's new.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
x:________________________
Steffen: I guess B&O is the only Company that sell Tv's with decent factory settings ;-)
Agree!
Very Very .. interesting discussion indeed.
I am (almost) ready to buy a second hand B&O TV .
Let me share my point of view with you
1°) I do not like today'spicture on TV
To me, especially when watching a movie or a Television serie the images looks likes a VIDEO and not a Movie
I am always suprised when someone is saying that the BV11 image is marvellous, or excellent or ... yes the image is very clear, precise, ... but it is an awfull video picture (I also agree that this is not a problem for watching tne news or a Tv Show)
2) Sound quality is much better on B&O than on other system (unless you add a sound bar ... but they all not taste the same)
My conclusion is that a good old 50'' plasma from B&O (ie Beovision 4 or Beovison 9) could bring me back the image that I like(or avoid me images that I do not like at all) but if it come to a price of a today plasma TV (last generation + BW sound bar) around 2 500 Euros
bayerische: Steffen: I guess B&O is the only Company that sell Tv's with decent factory settings ;-) Agree!
panasonic too!
Spotted this post in the link in the online store debate to an archived thread about the Beo Lounge.
Mon, Mar 2 2009 6:15 PM
Brilliant! An excellent effort from B&O and I really appreciate what they have done here. Not what I initially thought it would be about. Done with style and minimilasm, the latter being the whole point that everyone seems to be missing.
I have absolutly no reason to withdraw or cancel my membership from their community. I love the brand. I want to support it, encourage it and be encouraged by it. B&O create the living environment that I create for myself, so we are totally on par and connected in that sense.
vikinger: Spotted this post in the link in the online store debate to an archived thread about the Beo Lounge. Graham
From my records, that was TBM Mk.II -so take it with a grain.
Or was it Mk.III???
ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ: vikinger: Spotted this post in the link in the online store debate to an archived thread about the Beo Lounge. Graham From my records, that was TBM Mk.II -so take it with a grain. Or was it Mk.III???
Maybe the OP will clarify!
Edit
From the OP: Those who remember me from a few years back on this forum know how much I loved the design of B&O on some of their products but.....
and it was Simon then..........
Edit 2
But then again, the OP starts..
"Been away from the forum for a while as I sold all my B&O stuff back in 2008 as I got bored of the product line and found nothing exciting anymore about B&O." which doesn't quite tie in with an enthusiastic Beo Lounge post in 2009. Will the real Simon/ Beonic Man please step forward!
On topic...
I don't really care if any of my TVs (BV or otherwise) have any second hand value whatsoever.
The concept of trading one is foreign to me. I usually run them until they are dead.
On the occasions when one has left before its life was up -I gave them away.
As I rapidly approach mid life, there are much bigger concerns than squeezing a dollar out of something I have enjoyed and has served me well. Enjoy life - regret nothing.
Facel: 1°) I do not like today'spicture on TV To me, especially when watching a movie or a Television serie the images looks likes a VIDEO and not a Movie
This is because of all the digital processing. It can be turned off. Switch off all "motion plus" etc, noise reduction and stuff, and you'll end up with really good PQ :)
I was going to buy a V1 40", but came to the conclusion that I wanted 46" or 55" and since the Beovision 11 costs much more than I want to spend on a TV, I ended up with a Samsung 55F8005 (my first non-B&O tv in my life!). I actually haven't regretted it for a second - it's slim despise its size and with a thin metal frame, it's a minimalistic as it gets - even the (backlit) logo on the frame can be switched off in the system settings and then gets invisible! :)
I really like the industrial look of the V1, but when a tv is a s big as 55" I actually prefer it to have a minimalistic look. This is what my Samsung looks like (not my TV on the photos, just a photo gallery I found online) http://www.minhembio.com/Axel.F/189735/
Actually, the only thing I miss from a B&O is the nicer design of the B&O on-screen menus, even though the usual channel info graphics is quite ok on the latest Samsung sets. ...and the beo4, of course as the Samsung remotes (two different ones are included) are... ...not B&O quality, but that will be solved by using the oneremote mod for the beo4.
After carefully adjusting the settings (based on some "expert" settings I found online, but then further tweaked), I find the PQ really good with no "soap opera" effects or other digital artefacts.
I get the feeling henrik that however good the 11 LCD screen is, he would only ever be happy with a plasma