ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I did an experiment, I have an ABBA album , "The singles", played Voulez-vous. First on the TX2 with MMC4, through my Onkyo to Bvox 3702, first flat and then adjusted the bass to +5% and treble to +10%, thats the way I like it. I then connected my P45s to my 5000 stack, put the same MMC4 cartridge on the BG 5000, played same song, to get same sound as on the TX2 (5%bass,10% treble) I had to play flat on the 5000 stack, whereas if I use the SMMC4 on the BG 5000 I have to turn down the treble to - 1 line in the display (must be minus 10-15%).
The BG 5000 is my preferred BG
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Conclusion: there is nothing wrong with my set-up, my hearing must be at fault, curtailing the higher frequencies. I have tried many configurations and the result is always the same. The MMC4-equiped 5005 lacks treble, while CD sounds fine on the Beosystem. But treble is already at +3!
I insist that the first recording (from my LP) sounds flat and uninspiring to my ears, as does any record on this deck.
Perhaps the "fierce", or CD-like treble of the SMMC suits my hearing better. Live, unamplified music is a no-brainer though, but it is warm too!
Some time ago I attended a live performance of Chaplin's Modern Times and the full orchestra was there, but the sound was not very good, I thought. I put that on the acoustics of the concert hall (in Lyon). Perhaps it was just me, my 50-year-old pair of ears.
Rich, you can have your MMC4 back! Thanks again for the loan
Jacques
I still haven't had the chance to do a side by side comparison but I will sometime tomorrow.
Out of interest what stylus are you using on the Beogram 4000? Is it a standard elliptical or one of the shibata type profiles? That would explain the difference in sound..... The shibata's pick-up much more information from the grove particularly in the upper frequencies.
Lee
Excellent music choice, but I agree that it sounds flat, Nick's voice is sounding more goat like than usual. I've been listening to this record a lot on my 4004 lately and agree that yours does sound flat to me too, maybe thats just the stylus? Does raising the treble slider fix the problem at all, or (in your ears) is it just not picking up the highs at all?
The 4000 uses an MMC20CL or an SMMC20EN.
Yes, raising up the treble slider restores treble, but it doesn't do the sound any good.
chartz: The 4000 uses an MMC20CL or an SMMC20EN. Yes, raising up the treble slider restores treble, but it doesn't do the sound any good.
Because I am generally comparing Beograms and Beomasters which have been prepared for sales stock, I tend to run all my Beomasters "flat".
My comments regarding your samples were made on that basis.
I have an original Rumours on vinyl and on CD and if I play the vinyl on Beogram 3500/4500/6500 or 7000 with MMC4 or MMC2 or Beogram 6000 with MMC20CL, I cannot get the sound to be very different to your original sample. My CD is also very similar.
Hence my comment that I cannot hear anything wrong with your original sample.
Your CD sample is unlike anything I have heard with flat tone controls.
Regards Graham
Yes Graham, always flat here too. The two samples were not equalized in any way.
Agree with Graham, but as my hearing is bad I do adjust to the levels I "like", in a couple of weeks I will get my hearing checked, will get back with the results, will be interesting to see which frequencies are involved.
Well infortunately I am beginning to suspect a problem too. But only with some equipment. So a slightly lively top end does it for me. Clogs are always possible though I guess.
chartz: Rich, you can have your MMC4 back! Thanks again for the loan
You're very welcome. No rush. Whenever you get around to it.
What you can hear is the difference between the various stylus profiles and bonding techniques. The mmc20cl is a line contact stylus so will be much better at tracking higher frequencies (more contact with the grove walls) than the standard elliptical fitted on the mmc4. And the smmc20en is a nude bonded soundsmith cartridge which are renowned for sounding brighter.
The mmc4 sounds fine to me and almost identical to mine.
You should send the mmc4 to axel and have a nude bonded shibata fitted... That will reveal the high end much more than the standard glued elliptical.