ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
This Beovision 5 has just ended on eBay with no bids and an opening price of £199.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bang-Olufsen-BeoVision-5-42-480p-EDTV-Ready-Plasma-Television-/331546747025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d31b9e091&autorefresh=true
The £13000 TV took about 10 years to depreciate to 10% of its initial price, and then another 90% of this remaining price went in about a further 4 years. 14 years total to drop to 1 or 2% of the original.
If the LCD screen and its later derivatives had not come onto the scene so quickly the BV5's might still have been fetching £5k. These were/are such great televisions, but the cheap well designed flat LCD screen has all but wiped them out along with all the CRT models. And who wants the trouble of moving and transporting such a heavy machine? The BV9 even worse.
My own BV5 still gives service in our back room. If and when it finally fails I will be more likely to put in a new £200 42" screen and hide a new receiver and speakers in the lower half rather than either attempt an official B&O module repair (or taking the TV to the tip!
And what can dealers do? With prices dropping like a stone there is too much risk in taking on these models. Unless you can resell within a few weeks you will have no profit!
Graham
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:Just like the original Avant unfortunately.
...and the BV7-40 MK1 and 2....
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
It's all about HDMI I'm afraid.. Anything big, and SCART only is dead now unless it's so cheap it's a no brainer.
I used to pitch the BV5 as a great kids room TV when the price crashed, but kids all have PS3, PS4, Xbox etc with dazzling graphics the poor old SD BV5 just can't show.
Lee
9 LEE: It's all about HDMI I'm afraid.. Anything big, and SCART only is dead now unless it's so cheap it's a no brainer. I used to pitch the BV5 as a great kids room TV when the price crashed, but kids all have PS3, PS4, Xbox etc with dazzling graphics the poor old SD BV5 just can't show. Lee
Good point!
How did SCART ever become a standard in Europe? The terminal connections are so vulnerable to the slightest movement causing one or two pins to have poor connections so that the sound or colour is defective. Every time our kitchen 6-23 gets moved on its wall hinge you can bet that something happens with the SCART.
They did because they offer way more posibilities than other analog A/V connections.
The problem (you describe) could have been solved, if all scart connections had some sort of fixation mechanism - like we know it from the old Avant.
But this is now - fortunately - history. It has always been a pain to make the cables fit right in anyway.
HDMI makes life easier - although they could also sometimes benefit from some fixation.
First of all - it would be nice to have plugs, that fit in no matter how they are turned around.
x2.
This is exactly how I feel at the moment, right down to your last comment about BL5 successors. My next purchase will be BL5s otherwise. I also intend only to change my BV9 if it dies; hoping there may be something aesthetically different looking than the current Avant at that time.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
Barry Santini: My BV9 is the centerpiece of my LR. For pic quality, it is still more than satisfactory. I have many peripherals leveraged to it. I don't see a replacement for me on the near horizon, unless the panel dies. It is ー at once ー contemporary, impressive, integrated and its overall gestalt is so throughly BnO. What more could you ask? What more do you need? I'd sooner save my sheckles for the BL5 successor...if it proves it's worth to me. B
My BV9 is the centerpiece of my LR. For pic quality, it is still more than satisfactory. I have many peripherals leveraged to it. I don't see a replacement for me on the near horizon, unless the panel dies.
It is ー at once ー contemporary, impressive, integrated and its overall gestalt is so throughly BnO.
What more could you ask? What more do you need?
I'd sooner save my sheckles for the BL5 successor...if it proves it's worth to me.
B
We are not talking 'plasma vs lcd' here.
The point was, that 'pre-HDMI tv's' aren't worth a dime nowadays.
The BV9 is a fine set, that can serve you well for years to come....if you have the space for it in your room/house.
I've seen quite a few (relatively speaking) BV5's on eBay as well as craigslist here in the States go unsold, even at ridiculously low prices if one knows what they went for originally. One is being offered in the Los Angeles area for $1600US.
One thing to take into account as well (with most B&O televisions) is their size and heft. The fact that shipping them is cost prohibitive makes "local pick up" virtually the only viable option for most folks which makes the market for Avants, BV5's, etc even smaller due to the geographic limitations.
I agree with everyone so far as well, that the deprecated connections have made these very worthy beasts more of a nice to look at object than functional, even if their screens are amazing. The fact that PUCs can't be easily updated, is the kicker for most, regardless if they get the connections sorted and all their boxes connected. At this point in their lifecycle, compatibility is a far greater hinderance.
To this list I'd add the fact thats its Plasma technology. And despite the arguable strong picture performance has been a dead man walking for 3-4 years now due to power consumption, size, weight and longevity. I think B&O only did the BV12 because they needed a product in the larger sizes. The BV10 and 11 sold a gazzillion times more.
Chris Townsend:Plasma didn't sell well because it wasn't very good in most living room conditions ie lights on/ sun up. The AV specialists can drone on as much as they like about the technical merits of plasma, but in real world conditions LCD is far more conducive to every day living, and that's what customers want. Just wait for one of them to go on about viewing angles, and my favourite......"inky blacks" from a grey panel. Then add screen burn and you can see why the market spoke.
The AV specialists can drone on as much as they like about the technical merits of plasma, but in real world conditions LCD is far more conducive to every day living, and that's what customers want.
Just wait for one of them to go on about viewing angles, and my favourite......"inky blacks" from a grey panel. Then add screen burn and you can see why the market spoke.
Can't say I've ever experienced problems with daylight viewing on the BV5, and the early LCD screens, available at the same time as the BV5, had terrible viewing angles (making the B&O motorised stands indispensable).
The race to lcd wasn't driven by picture quality, it was lead by cost, manufaturers and the perceived value of "thiness".
Ban boring signatures!
Chris Townsend:I think this says it better than I.. http://mattontech.me/mattontech/lessons-from-the-failure-of-plasma-television/
http://mattontech.me/mattontech/lessons-from-the-failure-of-plasma-television/
Plasma failed because they couldn't make screens small enough? The main market is small TV's???
Surely somerhing has changed since that article was written.
vikinger: Chris Townsend:I think this says it better than I.. http://mattontech.me/mattontech/lessons-from-the-failure-of-plasma-television/ Plasma failed because they couldn't make screens small enough? The main market is small TV's??? Surely somerhing has changed since that article was written. Graham
Regarding the daylight issue, most recent plasma had ambient light compensation and so it wasn't an issue at all.
Panasonic must feature in the list of reasons why plasma failed, how could a company allow an inferior technology to outsell it without a major campaign promoting image quality?
Apparently, at CES when promoting their latest 4K TV's, the reference image was a Z series plasma. When it was pointed out that the plasma image was better the technician said, " Yes, but we're getting close"!
vikinger:Plasma failed because they couldn't make screens small enough? The main market is small TV's??? Surely somerhing has changed since that article was written. Graham
I prefer LCD over Plasma ANYDAY for picture quality. I remember the time we went into B&O of Chester and their BV8-40 gave a far clearer picture than the BV9 that was next to it. The BV9 looked waxy compared to the BV8-40. I think even the salesman agreed whilst looking slightly embarrassed!
Plasma failed also because of the repulsive amount of electricity that they used. They were an insult to the environment. Thank God they didn't catch on. Anyway come on guys you're wasting your time talking about super old crappy technology. Plasma really was 1990s! Let's move forward!
Moving on means also considering that HDMI 2.0 isn't enough, when the displays/tv's with support for High Definition Range, Wider Colour Gamma, higher frame rates (and of course 4 K resolution) etc etc will arrive.
They even talk about the need for newer/better interfaces like DisplayPort and SuperMHL for connecting external devices.
In two years even the (New) Avant will look old
Hm, I think the thread is also about how time changes and once admired objects lose their (market) value and what reasons this is for. I personally was never convinced of LCD as a technology for TVs and still think that principally it's the least well-suited technology for displaying moving pictures out of the three LCD, Plasma and CRT. Still it is the only technology that has survived, whereas all the others are no longer maintained and despite their once horrendous production costs are now basically thrown away by most. What a pity and sign of the times. Although that's just my opinion and I know that I'm one of very few who thinks like that, I find it very interesting - just like the fact that LCD is the least expensive of the three technologies to produce.
I highly doubt the validity of the power consumption argument by the way...
That being said, I think that watching television can be an equally satisfying or disfatisfying experience no matter what the underlying technology for picture processing is. With the advancement of technologies they all have developed their pros and cons and it's hard to compare. The picture just looks very different on each technology but in the end the question for me is - does this really matter that much? Probably not. That's why I still enjoy my CRTs nowadays at very low costs. However, Plasma would have been an alternative for me, hadn't it faded away so quickly. And the Beovision 7, for example, is also great of course.
Greetings,
Kai
Millemissen:Moving on means also considering that HDMI 2.0 isn't enough, when the displays/tv's with support for High Definition Range, Wider Colour Gamma, higher frame rates (and of course 4 K resolution) etc etc will arrive. They even talk about the need for newer/better interfaces like DisplayPort and SuperMHL for connecting external devices. In two years even the (New) Avant will look old MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
The next truly must-have moves in TV will be interface and content - software defined - versus hardware specs. The Avant has everything anyone needs to be all-set for where the next advances are going to come from. Yes, there will be moves in screen and connectivity technology and price movements downwards as volumes of UHD panels increase... But what is needed now is better and easier ways to consume the content we want, when we want it without scrolling a gazzillion channels. The whole channels as a route to content is going to die. Advertisers don't want it and nor do content owners - its much easier to monetise when you can personalise.
I'm sure - as has already been the case on this forum that go 4K is this and that and Avant is not as good as older 1080P sets, but think about the entire engagement experience in the not too distant future ;-)
Maybe USB-C will replace HDMI 2??? It certainly seems to be capable of many many tasks!
BeoNut since '75
elephant:With TLC nothing is truly obsolete (it may become irreparable) ... BeoPlayer on a Nineties' IBM Aptiva Widows machine playing through my home office BV8-32 via VGA !
First a post by Methuselah expecting a Mk2 update in about 1000 years . Now we find he's got a Widows machine.
vikinger:elephant:With TLC nothing is truly obsolete (it may become irreparable) ... BeoPlayer on a Nineties' IBM Aptiva Widows machine playing through my home office BV8-32 via VGA !First a post by Methuselah expecting a Mk2 update in about 1000 years . Now we find he's got a Widows machine. Graham
Barry Santini: Millemissen: Moving on means also considering that HDMI 2.0 isn't enough, when the displays/tv's with support for High Definition Range, Wider Colour Gamma, higher frame rates (and of course 4 K resolution) etc etc will arrive. They even talk about the need for newer/better interfaces like DisplayPort and SuperMHL for connecting external devices. In two years even the (New) Avant will look old MM There is a tv - and there is a BV. Which is why trying to keep up with the Joneses, as BnO does, it a losing endeavor in video. For me, I'd rather have a beo video master that is more substantial in appearance and form than the Avants. B
Millemissen: Moving on means also considering that HDMI 2.0 isn't enough, when the displays/tv's with support for High Definition Range, Wider Colour Gamma, higher frame rates (and of course 4 K resolution) etc etc will arrive. They even talk about the need for newer/better interfaces like DisplayPort and SuperMHL for connecting external devices. In two years even the (New) Avant will look old MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Which is why trying to keep up with the Joneses, as BnO does, it a losing endeavor in video. For me, I'd rather have a beo video master that is more substantial in appearance and form than the Avants.
We - as costumers - should really not worry that much about specs (and certainly not about chasing specs).
Our focus should rather be 'value' - what is this tv/this setup worth for what I want to use it for!
We all use our setups in different ways - sometimes in very different ways.
Some are content with the old Avant - others need the latest tech (as for now in the New Avant) to watch a couple of videoclips in 4K resolution and believing that they are prepared for the future.
What 'worth' is, is a very personal matter. I am doing fine with my BV8-40 and will wait for a next generation BV.
But we will have to accept, that from an overall point of view, a missing HDMI feature makes earlier BV's almost unsellable - which might be nice for those, who can live with pre-HDMI technology
On the other hand - even if (as was noted above) a 1080p BV in most ways is perfectly well for the content, that most people watch/need - it would have been crusial, if B&O had decided against a 4K resolution display for their new Avant. Just imagine, what people (including most of the Beoworlders) would have said: B&O, the company that still uses technology of yesterday!
Tech is moving fast nowaday - which is fine, as long as we (the costumers) keep our feet on the ground!
vikinger: This Beovision 5 has just ended on eBay with no bids and an opening price of £199. Graham
Sad but true... Crazy times we are living in...
BTW, it would be interesting to see if my "All-white" monochrome 17" 60's Beovision 601 would reach the £199...
I am pretty sure it would...
Vintage Bang & Olufsen
vikinger:First a post by Methuselah expecting a Mk2 update in about 1000 years . Now we find he's got a Widows machine. Graham
I have a BeoPort laying around - I haven't used it for years in my setup.
I guess it stopped at the time I realized, that ripping to MP3/WMA degraded, what I had on my CD's.
So after I started to rip to FLAC (lossless) the BeoPlayer became obsolete to me.
Nowadays - with the arrival of lossless streaming services - there is really no use for a BeoPort/BeoPlayer.
Yet another piece of B&O gear, that has become worthless.
I've been really surprised recently by the bargains you can pick up on eBay - I've been after a beovision for many years and recently bought a beocenter 6-26 with built in dvb-t for just over £100. It has 2 HD inputs (admittedly 720p but who cares on a 26" screen) via DVI and component so I can connect (with a bit of effort) my Apple TV and a humax youview hard disk recorder. The picture is far better than the Samsung I was using previously at 1080p, and the sound is very good at least to my ears. For 100 quid it's worth it for the speakers alone! The beovision 5 HD was on my wish list but my wife will not allow me to go above the 30" mark so that was shut down pretty quick! Anyway these older and slightly less loved beovisions seem like very good value to me at least - I think lots of people are put off by the size, weight and risk that the older sets won't work with the latest gizmos. At this price I'd say it's worth a punt so it surprises me when these things aren't snapped up!
Incedentally I now have A pretty decent B&O multi-room AV installation in the house, complete with home automation (via lintronic, x10 and insteon); I've bought all my stuff second hand on eBay and never spent more than £200 on an individual component (my record is £10 for two Beo4s!) admittedly a large proportion have required a repair, but in my experience the build quality of B&O and the ease of service is second to none. That coupled with the wealth of knowledge on Beoworld means that I've been able to give a second life to quite a few old products and they all look and sound amazing still.
Still using and enjoying my BV5, Avant DVD and BV3 !! And a Beoport!
Not to mention my Beolab 5000 system with Beogram 3000! Music and picture all seem fine to me! ( I do have an eye condition that means HD is to a large extent wasted upon me! I considered the new Avant but it would take up valuable book case space!!
Peter
Luke Spadavecchia : ..... That coupled with the wealth of knowledge on Beoworld means that I've been able to give a second life to quite a few old products and they all look and sound amazing still.
..... That coupled with the wealth of knowledge on Beoworld means that I've been able to give a second life to quite a few old products and they all look and sound amazing still.
That post really made me smile!
That's what BeoWorld is all about. We love it, we hate it, we love it, we curse it, but at the end of the day... we love it - and we all like to help other people love it too.
Keep going Luke!
HDMI is important but not something you can't live without it.
Just use a smart receiver like Technisat Isio technology and you will have all your music, movies, smart tv functionality (apps, spotify or even VOD) via NAS/ Home Network/ Internet on Pre-HDMI TV.
Beovision Avant 55 / BV 11-40 / BV7-40 / Beovision Avant / Beosound 9000 / Beosound 5 Encore / Beosystem 4500 / Beosystem 6500 / Beocenter 9000 / Beolab 5000 / Beolab 18 / Beolab 19 / Beolab 11 / Beolab 17 / 3 sets of Beolab 4000 / Beovox Red Line 60.2
Doubled
For my own tuppence worth I am still using my BV8-32 and 6-26 linked and picture quality is really good - however I got itchy feet when I saw my friends Samsung which knocked both out of court - so I borrowed a projector - definitely the way to go (for me anyway), a fraction of the cost of a new TV, easily upgradable, takes up no space and the fact that my B&O is all linked up means I can watch a massive screen in between the Penta Speakers with the sound and control of Apple TV routed through a BM6500 - sound and picture are excellent - I should add for movies which is 95% of what I watch. later I'll reuse my lintronic box to control a motorised screen and the projector - so everything is controlled via a Beo4. Big screen, big sound, small footprint - ok, not Dolby whatever and maybe not as sharp as a newer Beovision, but a great experience every time.
I suppose in some ways it depends on how often you watch TV and what you watch - a BV5 maybe fine for someone that has a large room and wants a beautiful looking TV and watches say the news or current affairs programs - not so good, for someone that wants High Definition and watches a lot of TV or films etc. The good thing is that there are real bargains out there to be had if you have a use for them -spare room, kitchen, study etc