ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I will have to contact Struer and see if they can organise a years worth of daily factory tours for my other half. Prior to our Denmark trip she was usually horrified by what I spend on B&O (and that's just the stuff she knows about!), but after the factory tour she did concede that she could better understand the justification for the price tags based on the attention to detail that went into the design and manufacturing process. Perhaps with another 300 or so visits, and assuming this effect is cumulative, I might no longer need to file away the invoices before she sees them
That said, I still don't think I'd get away with re-mortgaging the house to buy a pair of lab 90s
Waiting for a Master BeoSound to drive the New BeoLab 90 !
Amazing shape 😍 BeoLab 90 by Bang & Olufsen
I like it looks really futuristic, with the different shapes and angles. would love to see the arrangement of where the speaker drivers are situated.
Beoplay A2
Playdrv4me: I don't see enough substance here, at least until some professional reviewers can get their hands on them or we get to hear them (and how many dealers will carry them?). The problem once again just like BL5 is that B&O seems to have thrown a bunch of drivers in a cabinet in an effort to create a wider "sweet spot" within an entire room to enjoy the music without losing details. Ok, that's fine. But there's no mention of any driver improvements to increase the *resolution and imaging* starting with the driver itself. Sure, the B&W 800 Series Diamond speakers don't have this incredible ability to bounce off every surface in a room and still keep a convincing stereo soundstage but... so what? If you ARE sitting in the sweet spot and even further, if you have a good Room EQ, the dividends are incredible with the diamond tweeter and the FST midrange. I certainly hope that for 70,000.00 or whatever silly price these things will cost, there's more substance here than novel placement of cooling fins and beam width control. Yes, I read about both of these innovations on Geoff's site, but even with all the supposed innovation in the BL5 that stood since 2003, it still doesn't sound better than even an 804 Diamond D2 which is the smallest floor stander. In some ways, the BL5 doesn't really sound much better than my Penta IIIs. Sure, it throws sound out wider, but that doesn't matter when I sit down for serious listening anyway as I'm not going to sit off in a corner of the room. Transducer technology has advanced SO far in the last 20 years that you can not just ignore that part of the equation.
I don't see enough substance here, at least until some professional reviewers can get their hands on them or we get to hear them (and how many dealers will carry them?).
The problem once again just like BL5 is that B&O seems to have thrown a bunch of drivers in a cabinet in an effort to create a wider "sweet spot" within an entire room to enjoy the music without losing details. Ok, that's fine. But there's no mention of any driver improvements to increase the *resolution and imaging* starting with the driver itself. Sure, the B&W 800 Series Diamond speakers don't have this incredible ability to bounce off every surface in a room and still keep a convincing stereo soundstage but... so what? If you ARE sitting in the sweet spot and even further, if you have a good Room EQ, the dividends are incredible with the diamond tweeter and the FST midrange.
I certainly hope that for 70,000.00 or whatever silly price these things will cost, there's more substance here than novel placement of cooling fins and beam width control. Yes, I read about both of these innovations on Geoff's site, but even with all the supposed innovation in the BL5 that stood since 2003, it still doesn't sound better than even an 804 Diamond D2 which is the smallest floor stander. In some ways, the BL5 doesn't really sound much better than my Penta IIIs. Sure, it throws sound out wider, but that doesn't matter when I sit down for serious listening anyway as I'm not going to sit off in a corner of the room. Transducer technology has advanced SO far in the last 20 years that you can not just ignore that part of the equation.
The advantage of the ALT is that nullifies the beaming of a driver. In general, when the wavelength diameter approaches the driver diameter, the off-axis sound level drops. Therefore, assuming that the woofers aren't crossed over too high, the tweeters with ALT could be said to simply having the same off-axis sound dispersion as the woofers by eliminating beaming. I recall one of Geoff's frequency response graphs for the BeoLab 5 that shows this.
I'm not sure what you mean by transducer technology advancing over the past 20 years. I'm assuming that you're still speaking of cones and domes. I know that one US speaker manufacturer is using lots of air motion transformer as tweeters. I haven't seen many other popular changes in drivers. The fact that the BeoLab speakers are active means that any frequency response issues in the driver can be corrected, something that is challenging to do with a passive speaker.
I wonder if the new BeoLab 90 has an lower frequency limit in which it can widen or narrow the stereo image. I wonder if to narrow the stereo image, the sound is delayed by an adjustable amount and played out of phase to reduce the off axis response. If so, this might explain why this speaker has so much power in its amplifiers: it has to cancel much of the original signal to reduce the stereo width. (Or this could be the most hilarious acoustical theory Geoff has ever read.)
D
That isn't a real photograph, but one generated by someone from this board.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
I hope it sounds better than it looks. I'm sure it does. But why... Why make it so damn ugly?
Too long to list....
B&O has more than once used Scan-Speak drivers as somebody has mentioned before. The Beolab Penta drivers for example are also from Scan-Speak.
Cheers,
Kai
Chris Townsend:That isn't a real photograph, but one generated by someone from this board. Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Beovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, Beolab 9, Beolit 15, Beoplay A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Razlaw:There are three teaser photos on B and O's web page. Two of them appear to be the top of what has been posted here. The third picture on B and O's Facebook page appears to be a portion of the exact same picture posted here a few posts ago.....the most recent picture posted in this thread.....the one with the speaker in the center and progressively thinner slices of the speaker on each side.
Beovision 7 40 mk 5 ,beovision 6x3, beosound 3000, beogram 3300 , 2 x lc2, 2 x beocom 1401, beocom 6000 x 2, 5 x beo4,
, 4 x beolab 4's, form 2, h2, a2,a1 and a beolab 2 😀😀
Razlaw: Razlaw: There are three teaser photos on B and O's web page. Two of them appear to be the top of what has been posted here. The third picture on B and O's Facebook page appears to be a portion of the exact same picture posted here a few posts ago.....the most recent picture posted in this thread.....the one with the speaker in the center and progressively thinner slices of the speaker on each side Sorry. Last post should have started with There are three teaser photos on B and O's Facebook page". Not web page. Sorry.
Razlaw: There are three teaser photos on B and O's web page. Two of them appear to be the top of what has been posted here. The third picture on B and O's Facebook page appears to be a portion of the exact same picture posted here a few posts ago.....the most recent picture posted in this thread.....the one with the speaker in the center and progressively thinner slices of the speaker on each side
There are three teaser photos on B and O's web page. Two of them appear to be the top of what has been posted here. The third picture on B and O's Facebook page appears to be a portion of the exact same picture posted here a few posts ago.....the most recent picture posted in this thread.....the one with the speaker in the center and progressively thinner slices of the speaker on each side
Sorry. Last post should have started with There are three teaser photos on B and O's Facebook page". Not web page. Sorry.
The detail on the teaser pictures suggest that the whole thing may be less tent like than I thought...... some very nice close-up joint details.
Graham
vikinger: The detail on the teaser pictures suggest that the whole thing may be less tent like than I thought...... some very nice close-up joint details. Graham
I agree, I hadn't seen those close ups before, and at first I had thought the aluminum framing around the cloth was merely tube-like, but now I see that it is actually not, it creates even more visual interest. I hope B&O have developed a very extensive and deep website for these speakers, as I'm sure there are many more than just us who'd like to know everything about them, inside and out.
bramble:They built a new sound cube for the bl90 . Like the commitment Beovision 5,beovision 6, beovision 3 32, beovision 1,beosound 3000, beosound 1, beogram 8500, 2 x lc2, 2 x beocom 1401, beocom 6000, 3 x beo4, beolab 6000, beolab 4's, form 2, beosound 3, linn subwoofer .
Hi all,
Some more info on this site:
http://www.recordere.dk/2015/10/bos-hemmelige-hoejttaler-er-beolab-90/ Rudy
http://www.recordere.dk/2015/10/bos-hemmelige-hoejttaler-er-beolab-90/
Rudy
Beoradio:Hi all,Some more info on this site:http://www.recordere.dk/2015/10/bos-hemmelige-hoejttaler-er-beolab-90/Rudy
BeoBoy68: Recordere.dk should mention the copyright by BeoBoy68 !
Recordere.dk should mention the copyright by BeoBoy68 !
Since when can you copyright something, that you don't own❓
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
There are different views on how to make a speaker/the best speaker - amongst listeners, professionals and (certainly) reviewers.
if you want to built a loudspeaker for people, who are used to and prefer to sit in the 'sweet spot' of a set of speakers in a room, that is optimized for this, you can create/develop/tune the speaker (and the room) for this purpose.
The 'audiophile approach of listening to music through speakers', I would call it.
B&O started with the BL5 (using the lens technology) making speakers for people with a somewhat different approach to listening. The lens technolgy made it possible to experience music, without having to sit in the perfect 'sweet spot'. Speakers, that more than just one person (at the time) could enjoy, was the goal.
They wanted to make speakers, that fits into the living rooms of their costumers and - despite the acoustic problems, that come with this - still can sound excellent.
Of course there are several challenges to solving the problem of 'always sounding good in every place and surrounding'.
But it seems, that the B&O-team has been able to solve a lot of these problems with the knowledge gained during the last decade.
What's important with the BL90 is not so much the (rather small) progress of the transducers used, but far more the progress in the DSP technology, that B&O has been using for their speaker for years now - and in a profound insight in how sound behaves in a room.
As always Geoff Martin can explain these things much better:
'For the past 5 or 6 years, we in the acoustics department at Bang & Olufsen have been working on a loudspeaker technology that allows us to change this radiation pattern using a system we call Beam Width Control. Using lots of DSP power, racks of amplifiers, and loudspeaker drivers, we are able to not only create the beam width that we want (or switch on-the-fly between different beam widths), but we can do so over a wide frequency range. This allows us to listen to the results, and design the directivity pattern of a loudspeaker, just as we currently design its timbral characteristics by sculpting its magnitude response. This means that we can not only decide how a loudspeaker “sounds” – but how it represents the spatial properties of the recording.
If sitting 'off-sweet-spot' is not, what you do or need to, this may seem uninteresting to you.
However, for many B&O costumers it is highly interesting to have a speaker setup, that works well in their home - without having to reorganize or dedicate part of it just for music listening.
Millemissen:Since when can you copyright something, that you don't own❓MMThere is a tv - and there is a BV.
BeoBoy68:It is time now to design and launch a High End Master BeoSound to drive the new BeoLab 90.
'Control the settings of your BeoLab 90 by using the Bang & Olufsen remote or by using the dedicated app on your phone. It is easy to control the beam width and direction. In addition, you can pre-program all of BeoLab 90’s features and save presets that best suit your preferences for different occasions. These presets can also be automatically selected by your Bang & Olufsen television, or triggered by devices connected to BeoLab 90´s many inputs.'
A Bang & Olufsen television will do the job!
Chris Townsend:, but I can't imagine running these £50,000 Beolabs from a V1-40 streaming 256 Mbps standard Deezer!
Why not?
Chris Townsend:My 7-55 has a Bluray player so CDs wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine running these £50,000 Beolabs from a V1-40 streaming 256 Mbps standard Deezer!
Chris Townsend:Because if I can tell the difference between Apple Music and CDs through Beoab 9's, then the short comings of 256 Mbps through a pair of those monsters would be greatly amplified. Average in, average out no? Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Beovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, Beolab 9, Beolit 15, Beoplay A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.
Millemissen: Chris Townsend:, but I can't imagine running these £50,000 Beolabs from a V1-40 streaming 256 Mbps standard Deezer! Why not? MM
Does anyone honestly think the buyer of the Beolab 90 would buy a Beosound Essence as a player for these speakers? I would not. I would want a player worthy of the price and ability of these speakers. There has to be more to this.
linder:Does anyone honestly think the buyer of the Beolab 90 would buy a Beosound Essence as a player for these speakers? I would not. I would want a player worthy of the price and ability of these speakers. There has to be more to this.
BeoBoy68: linder: Does anyone honestly think the buyer of the Beolab 90 would buy a Beosound Essence as a player for these speakers? I would not. I would want a player worthy of the price and ability of these speakers. There has to be more to this. Agree linder Which model of player do you recommend us ?
linder: Does anyone honestly think the buyer of the Beolab 90 would buy a Beosound Essence as a player for these speakers? I would not. I would want a player worthy of the price and ability of these speakers. There has to be more to this.
Agree linder
Which model of player do you recommend us ?
Good question! I am assuming there are multiple inbuilt DACs in the Beolab 90s and many types of connectors. i think they should be able to decode USB input compatible with the following audio formats via PC/MAC. PCM: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8 and 384 kHz, up to 32 bits. DSD via USB (DoP): 2.822, 3.072, 5.644 and 6.144 MHz. I already have an Oppo Blu-ray player that can play Blu-ray audio and SACD which sound really great but there is a limited distribution of these discs.
I guess there should be a player designed and built in Denmark that is a unique design for the Beolab 90s. After all if one is going to spend £50k for Beolab 90s, why not spend another £6000 for an exquisite player.
BeoBoy68: Chris Townsend: My 7-55 has a Bluray player so CDs wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine running these £50,000 Beolabs from a V1-40 streaming 256 Mbps standard Deezer! Agree Chris It is possible but not coherent for audio quality
Chris Townsend: My 7-55 has a Bluray player so CDs wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine running these £50,000 Beolabs from a V1-40 streaming 256 Mbps standard Deezer!
My 7-55 has a Bluray player so CDs wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine running these £50,000 Beolabs from a V1-40 streaming 256 Mbps standard Deezer!
Agree Chris
It is possible but not coherent for audio quality
Did you focus on the V1 or on the 256 lossy streaming with your comment?
As for the V1 I am sure, that it would be no problem. However, we yet have to learn how the different 'Beam-modes' are controlled/transmitted to the 90's, when these are connected to a B&O-tv. Maybe a connection via WiSA is required for this?
There seem to be direct controlling possibilities (via the Beoremote or an app), if they are used with non-B&O equipment.
If you focused on the 256 lossy audio, I am not so sure.
The quality of the recording/the engeneering, mixing (and mastering) of a piece of music is generally far more important, than the 'bit bucket' the files are delievered in afterwards.
A 256/320kbps file can be pretty good, when carefully done with a quality encoder - and is often sufficient for most modern music.
By the way, Deezer (Premium) is streamed at 320kbps.
Personally - to be quite sure - I'd go for a lossless streaming service (or a cd).
linder: i think they should be able to decode USB input compatible with the following audio formats via PC/MAC. PCM: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8 and 384 kHz, up to 32 bits. DSD via USB (DoP): 2.822, 3.072, 5.644 and 6.144 MHz.
i think they should be able to decode USB input compatible with the following audio formats via PC/MAC. PCM: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8 and 384 kHz, up to 32 bits. DSD via USB (DoP): 2.822, 3.072, 5.644 and 6.144 MHz.
The bigger the numbers, the better the sound!
Is that your conclusion?
I'll wait to see/hear how these biggies are demonstrated at the launch and afterwards in the shops - if I get to hear them?
a ripper/cd unit permanently installed.
Why? You can download everything nowadays.
linder:I guess there should be a player designed and built in Denmark that is a unique design for the Beolab 90s. After all if one is going to spend £50k for Beolab 90s, why not spend another £6000 for an exquisite player.
BeoBoy68: linder: I guess there should be a player designed and built in Denmark that is a unique design for the Beolab 90s. After all if one is going to spend £50k for Beolab 90s, why not spend another £6000 for an exquisite player. All BeoFans dream about a new audio master made in Denmark.
linder: I guess there should be a player designed and built in Denmark that is a unique design for the Beolab 90s. After all if one is going to spend £50k for Beolab 90s, why not spend another £6000 for an exquisite player.
All BeoFans dream about a new audio master made in Denmark.
There is no 'audio master' in a B&O setup anymore.
There are (B&O) devices, that you can hook up your speakers to - and there are (audio) sources on the NL, that you can distribute and use.
They talked about 'BeoLab 90´s many inputs' In the leaked paper.
So I guess, that if you want a 'standalone setup' with the 90's, you could just connect them via USB or spdif to a Mac (or pc) using a good audio software.