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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have a question that just begs asking, are all the Beomaster series amplifiers subject to the same failure rate?
Specifically I am wondering if the Beomaster 1900 family of amplifiers is as prone to electronic failure as is the Beomaster 4400?
That the Beomaster 4400 needs servicing as it ages is not in question.
However I have a perfectly delightful Beomaster 2400 that does anything whatsoever asked of it without complaint. We are talking powering at high volume three pair of inefficient speakers in the past, and without sweating. Today its life is a lot easier powering a single pair of S45 speakers, but none the less I wonder if it is an electronic time-bomb like the Beomaster 4400.
I also have a Beomaster 4500, which is my favorite amplifier that has on two occasions refused to respond to any command. Unplugging this Beomaster restores it to normal function, but my Beomaster 4400 “experience” has given me cause to doubt the longevity of this and any (for that matter) Bang & Olufsen product.
Any thoughts on this subject?
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
I have here, BM 901, 2400, 4000 and now the 4400. all of them had bad electrolytic capacitors, the 901 and 2400 also bad bridge rectifiers, I changed only caps in the 2400 and after half year I had to change main bridge rectifier, the BM 4000 played good for 5/6 month and then I had to change Darlingtons in left channel, changedcall of them as left went bad the right channel was do to come also.
If a car has 300,000 miles on the odometer you will have to think about some repairs, its the same with old electronics, after 30/40 years something is prone to renewal. We are lucky that B&O vintage are somehow easy to repair, and except for some special items, we still can get parts.
So if your vintage starts to have failures, you will have to do something, the lesson I've learned is, do it all, not only caps, and do a throughout cleaning while doing it. Eugene on the forum told me that a couple of years ago, I didnt listen, so I had to open up my BMs again and do it.
My BM 2400 and my BM 4000 are both playing like new, and what a joy it is to turn them on and listen to some sweet music, I get soft in my heart and proud of my work, thinking, May the gods keep the vintage forum going.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
yeah agree 110% - it same with old bikes - people ask me why you spend the time and money to fix it - hard to explain why i like to rescue 1 for years to come I suppose, products these days usually won't last warranty....
Don't worry - be Happy
Hi Søren,
Great analogy with the 300,000 mile car…. it all makes sense.
However your statement begs yet another question, how do we know if our vintage electronics are performing at their peek performance level?
As mentioned my Beomaster 4500 has an issue with refusing to respond to any command, so something is amiss and will eventually need attention.
However the Beomaster 2400 has never been worked on and as far as I know is performing s it should….. but how do I really know this? I mean the 2400 doesn’t do anything wrong, is very stable, and sound very good….. but could it sound great?
Guys, I am really rather serious about this, how can one possibly determine if a Beomaster is performing up to spec, or just merely hanging on?
Particularly in the case of my Beomaster 2400, this amp is original down to the dust from the factory.
In a different time frame I formally used it to power three sets of very inefficient speakers, to my discredit at high volume, and the Beomaster “acted” like it was unphased , it got plenty hot alright, but the sound quality was consistent and quiet acceptable.
Today the Beomaster 2400 has a more gentle life powering a pair of S45 speakers and it sounds just fine. It is not in the league with the Beomaster 4500 or McIntosh 2255, but there is nothing remotely wrong with the sound. Nice bass and very nice treble plus all the volume one could want.
What does this indicate, if anything?
What intrigues me is if there are failing components in this Beomaster 2400 what it would sound like if everything was up to spec?
Well I suppose we won't (unless you want to go the extra mile and have it rechecked in lab or, trust your ears) - it's a bit like with about any other aspect of life
Reminds me of the McIntosh clinics of years ago. They'd set up shop for a day at your local McIntosh retailer with their test equipment and you could bring in your McIntosh (or other) component and they'd bench test it right in front of you to see how well it met key published specifications. Great PR stunt, as the McIntosh components usually outperformed the published specs.
The 2400 is a sweet sounding amp, but my 4000 is my favorite until now, my hearing is not the best but somehow I can hear a little more detail, on the other hand I prefer the 2400 and S45s for back ground music, the sound is relaxing and you can keep it on for hours and you wont get tired bothered of it.
What you can check on your 2400 is the temp. on the cooling ribs on the back of the unit, if they get a little more than hand warm all over after 1/2 an hour playing at normal listening level, your amp is OK, if there are differences from right to left, something is wrong.
I measured the ESR Ohms on some of the capacitors I changed, and some of them were way over limit, I changed all electrolytic, some trimmers, all lamps and bridge rectifiers, adjusted the 15V supply and the idle current, and now its working like it should.
Yours is maybe one of few units that has never been touched, but its time, its old and the caps are bad or short before going bad, the same for some of the trimmers, if it was mine I would do it now before something starts giving trouble and maybe do more damage.
One typical failure on the 2400 is channel jumping, you select a preset channel and it plays there for maybe an hour, and suddenly it jumps to another channel, within short time (1-2 weeks) this get worse and time shorter before jumping.
The McIntosh clinics were legend, a very clever marketing campaign. The gentleman who used to do those clinics is no longer with us, and the clinics kind of went with him.
The factory still stands behind their product in the most incredible way. As mentioned several times here on different forums, I sent my McIntosh 2255 back to the factory for repair, they offered me a new one at cost, which I declined, and the rebuilt my amp replacing everything….. and when it arrived there was a note for the president saying that there was no invoice, because in his opinion it shouldn’t have broken in the first place….after 31 years!
I read everything you said with great interest and it makes me a bit sad to think that I am (sort of) abusing my Beomaster 2400.... that is using it without servicing it.
I performed your temperature test and after a couple of record plays at medium volume the was no warmth coming from the cooling fins at all, so I tuned up the volume.
To the extreme left and right there is no heat to be felt, but the cooling fins themselves get warm, not very warm, but definitely warm and exactly the same temperature from one side to the other. I was extremely careful to check back and forth, there is no difference in temperature.
While I can not prove that this Beomaster has never been serviced, I can tell you this, I purchased it from an officer in the US Army, a VERY detail-oriented gentleman who if ever he had serviced the Beomaster 2400 he would have provided me a comprehensive report listing each part replaced, the part number, the cost paid, and a copy of the invoice. As there was no mention of any service, I can pretty safely assume that the Beomaster had not required any…. and he purchased the Beomaster 2400 new.
I really DO try to follow instructions.
Earlier today I played the Beomaster 2400 for about an hour but never was able to get the amp more than tepid warm.
So this afternoon I really enjoyed my Beomaster for about two hours playing music so loud that I could CLEARLY hear it in front of my house, in the garage, and God only knows about the neighbors to the rear.
It is warm here and we don’t have air-conditioning so the windows are open. I didn’t dare turn the volume any higher not wanting an angry knock at my door.
Still after being left on all day and then played for a couple of hours at I would guess 70% of maximum volume the Beomaster 2400 never got warmer than tepid, certainly below body temperature. I could feel the heat rising, but the heat veins were just warm, evenly warm, but not remotely hot.
Is this good or bad?
The sound quality of this Beomaster is always the same LOTS of bass (I have it set at neutral) and a nice upper end (I have this slightly elevated.) Unlike the Beomaster 4400 with its inconsistent bass and disagreeable treble, the 2400 is pleasant…. not remarkable, not great, but pleasant.
So what do you think overall? Should I stop using this Beomaster until I find the time to have it rebuilt?
Hello there, I shouldn't interfere with post specifically for Søren, (and not personally have one of 2400's), but cannot help myself to say - "Don't make problems where problems don't exists - from what you saying it appears that your system is healthy not overheating or showing signs of any uneven heat distribution or any issues for that matter.
You're in overall pleased with it - what seem to be you issue is beyond me - keep it that way and enjoy
Piaf: Hi Søren, I really DO try to follow instructions. Earlier today I played the Beomaster 2400 for about an hour but never was able to get the amp more than tepid warm. So this afternoon I really enjoyed my Beomaster for about two hours playing music so loud that I could CLEARLY hear it in front of my house, in the garage, and God only knows about the neighbors to the rear. It is warm here and we don’t have air-conditioning so the windows are open. I didn’t dare turn the volume any higher not wanting an angry knock at my door. Still after being left on all day and then played for a couple of hours at I would guess 70% of maximum volume the Beomaster 2400 never got warmer than tepid, certainly below body temperature. I could feel the heat rising, but the heat veins were just warm, evenly warm, but not remotely hot. Is this good or bad? The sound quality of this Beomaster is always the same LOTS of bass (I have it set at neutral) and a nice upper end (I have this slightly elevated.) Unlike the Beomaster 4400 with its inconsistent bass and disagreeable treble, the 2400 is pleasant…. not remarkable, not great, but pleasant. So what do you think overall? Should I stop using this Beomaster until I find the time to have it rebuilt? Jeff
Hi Bob,
You pose a perfectly good question.
Frankly I had no idea I had a problem with my Beomaster 2400, but Søren, who knows vastly more than I do about electronics says, “Yours is maybe one of few units that has never been touched, but its time, its old and the caps are bad or short before going bad, the same for some of the trimmers, if it was mine I would do it now before something starts giving trouble and maybe do more damage.”
Well I don’t want to do “damage” and I started this thread wanting to learn about the longevity of the various B&O products. I learned that Beomaster 4400 require all sorts of work as they age and I certainly know about that first hand. Uggh!
However I thought it useful to learn if the basic Beomaster 1900 family of amplifiers was less needy in the replacement department.
From my VERY limited understanding of electronics if my Beomaster can play music at the volume I was playing it without generating much heat, that “should” be a good thing.
I also wanted to know if it could be determined if my 2400 is producing the full range of sound that it was designed to do. From my standpoint, the sound quality is very good, but I suspect my Beomaster 2400 does not attempt to hit the full audible range, certainly not the complexity of sound that my Beomaster 4500 produces. This is just my opinion, NOT a fact.
Just keep on using your very good 2400, its amazing that after more than 30 years it plays on as good as it does.
BM 4400 was made 77 to 80 the 2400 from 77 to 82 (18th century) both has the famous Roederstein electrolytic caps, both has the same kind if trimmers.
Here is what I changed today in my BM 4400, some 16 trimmers and 16-18 caps, I'm now nearly where I dare to connect the BM 4400. Of the caps 4 was open circuit, 1 was blown at the end, the rest was out of specs or at the limit. the trimmers measured good except for 2, but some of the good ones turned bad when i started to move them.
I have a BMW 1900 that I have been waiting to take on as a winter project and have the cap kit from Dillen. Regarding the trimmers I had not considered replacing them. Is it a good idea to do that with everything else and do I need equipment and know how to calibrate those if I did replace them. This question is related to the discussions here I think.
John
I have a BM 1900 that I have been waiting to take on as a winter project and have the cap kit from Dillen. Regarding the trimmers I had not considered replacing them. Is it a good idea to do that with everything else and do I need equipment and know how to calibrate those if I did replace them. This question is related to the discussions here I think.
Kindly forgive my persistence however I really would like to know what, if anything the modest temperature at the cooling fins indicates. I mean the Beomaster did manage to vibrate the remote control off the S45 speakers it was sitting upon.
As I have no electronic background the only two scenarios I can take from this situation is either the Beomaster was not working very hard to produce that volume level I have described or that various components have failed/failing and as such produce no heat.
Your thoughts please kind sir?
P.S. Amazing work you are doing on your Beomaster 4400, absolutely incredible!!!
In my 2400 I changed the trimmers for the 15V supply and for the no load current, You will have to adjust on these and sometimes they go bad when adjusting on them, so its a good idea to have them ready, and they do not cost much, as you change the caps, change the lamps too. Martin can provide both parts. For the adjustments mentioned above you will need a good multimeter, and use the onsite manual. Also check with Martin if changing the bridge rectifiers 0D1 and 2D50 is recommendable, I changed mine for a little bigger ones, as the 0D1 in the 2400 runs a little hot, but Martin will lead you in the right direction.
Hi there, I didn't try to patronize you in anyway and in fact shouldn't interfere at all as it was Soren's opinion you really wanted, I just wondered why would you or anyone try to do anything to what I assume to be perfectly example of never touched receiver in particular.
yes the fact that your amp doesn't produce excessive heat is GOOD thing ( so doesn't mine Beocenter 3500-2401 build in 1972 and "never touched" until now when record deck need attention)
I would even go as far to ask if that could be really considered failure rate after 30,40 or more years of (sometime heavy or and abusive use)
as far the "full spectrum and output" is irrelevant (despite it could be quiet easily tested - any AV specialist would be able to do that for you) as long you're happy physically with what you hear... I certainly do and wouldn't take my BC3500 of centrepiece position even if I had purchased 9300 or 9500.
As for your remark about 2400 comparing to 4500 is about same as if you compare apples to pears (no offence) and I'm sure that independent benchmark testing my burst the bubble - I'm active in AV from my early teen years and went as far as design, build and test own equipment (speakers in particular) and modified many and many systems all across the range, it just happened that B&O I always dreamed to own became accessible even for me recently.
All the best
Piaf: Hi Bob, You pose a perfectly good question. Frankly I had no idea I had a problem with my Beomaster 2400, but Søren, who knows vastly more than I do about electronics says, “Yours is maybe one of few units that has never been touched, but its time, its old and the caps are bad or short before going bad, the same for some of the trimmers, if it was mine I would do it now before something starts giving trouble and maybe do more damage.” Well I don’t want to do “damage” and I started this thread wanting to learn about the longevity of the various B&O products. I learned that Beomaster 4400 require all sorts of work as they age and I certainly know about that first hand. Uggh! However I thought it useful to learn if the basic Beomaster 1900 family of amplifiers was less needy in the replacement department. From my VERY limited understanding of electronics if my Beomaster can play music at the volume I was playing it without generating much heat, that “should” be a good thing. I also wanted to know if it could be determined if my 2400 is producing the full range of sound that it was designed to do. From my standpoint, the sound quality is very good, but I suspect my Beomaster 2400 does not attempt to hit the full audible range, certainly not the complexity of sound that my Beomaster 4500 produces. This is just my opinion, NOT a fact. Jeff
Hey Bob,
I didn’t feel patronized or offended in any way. I enjoy the conversation!
Here’s the deal, you guys ALL know much, much more about electronics than I, so when I ask a question that might sound stupid, it really isn’t, as the old maxim says, “There are no stupid questions” and I only asked because, frankly, I didn’t know. This way I learn something, and thank you all for your wisdom!
Piaf:As I have no electronic background the only two scenarios I can take from this situation is either the Beomaster was not working very hard to produce that volume level I have described or that various components have failed/failing and as such produce no heat.
Heat is bad and is, with my limited experience, one of the first things that shows you that something is wrong, different heat in the L/R channels is a sure sign that something is wrong. A slight increase in the temp when playing very loud is totally normal.
I would like to get some input from the more experienced members as my electronic knowledge and experience with B&O is limited.
As for my work on the 4400, it does not work yet, but I like to show of with a thread, also because there is nothing else going on in the vintage forum
Yesterday i think we got Rich convinced to rebuild his RL 60, so we can look forward to a thread from him.
Hello Søren,
Thank you for the information. NOW I understand why you wanted to know if there was a difference between the left and right side of the heat fins.
Sorry to hear that you Beomaster 4400 did not spring to life, as it should have after all the hard work.
Remember you said that you relished a challenge. Imagine how pleased you will be when it DOES come to life!
Piaf: Sorry to hear that you Beomaster 4400 did not spring to life, as it should have after all the hard work.
I did not power it up yet, still missing one cap and 2 trimmers. Tomorrow
, no there isn't such a thing as stupid questions (the only ones you did not ask could be it ;)
Piaf: Hey Bob, I didn’t feel patronized or offended in any way. I enjoy the conversation! Here’s the deal, you guys ALL know much, much more about electronics than I, so when I ask a question that might sound stupid, it really isn’t, as the old maxim says, “There are no stupid questions” and I only asked because, frankly, I didn’t know. This way I learn something, and thank you all for your wisdom! Jeff
Hi Bob and Søren,
I am really feeling a whole lot better about my Beomaster 2400. This is a Beomaster I didn’t want and had no interest in, but it came with a flawless Beogram 4002 so I purchased the pair.
In its present configuration the Beomaster 2400 performs in what can only be described as effortlessly.
What I left out, due to embarrassment, is in another physical situation by accident (The Beomaster 2400 back-fed through a common speaker switch-box), I powered the combination of Linn Isobaric, McIntosh ML-2, and Fisher XP66 speakers, all at the same time and at full volume. The Beomaster 2400 didn’t give the slightest hint of displeasure, but the cooling fins did indeed get very, very HOT. So I stopped the practice.
In the same configuration the Beomaster 4500 delivered amazing, and I mean AMAZING sound, but it protested when pushed and reduced the volume.
The Beomaster 2400 is consistent like a rock, unlike the Beomaster 4500 which I now fear is beginning to show signs of trouble. Of course it maybe it just doesn’t like the S120.2 speakers, but as the Beomaster 4400 simply can NOT tolerate these speakers, the Beomaster 4500 is kind of stuck.
I really have no way of knowing if the Beomaster 2400 has ever had service, but assuming that it is all original, as I do, it appears to be a remarkable survivor. While I didn’t recently push it to maximum volume to check for the temperature of the cooling fins, I did manage to vibrate the remote off the top of the S-24 speaker and still the temperature at the fins was about 80° F. after over an hour of playing.
Hi Jeff,
what you describe here (no need to be embarrassed about it and it does help in determination of possible issue not letting anything out ) will correspond to simple fact, that BM2400: The stereo amplifier produced 2 x 30 watts RMS of high-fidelity output and had DIN sockets for the connection of two pairs of speakers, a record-player and a tape or cassette recorder.
where
BM 4400: The amplifier's rated output of 75 watts RMS per channel (into 4 ohm speakers) provided more than enough power even in large rooms
and
BM4500 : The 2 x 55 watt/8 ohm amplifier had a newly-developed, well-balanced interplay with the power supply which gave the output extra strength. The power reserve encompassed the entire frequency range and gave stable sound quality no matter what the volume. Beomaster 4500 also had automatic power handling control that prevented overloading, no matter how many loudspeakers were connected, as well as a special loudspeaker socket which ensured optimal utilisation of BeoLab active loudspeakers.
Hope this will help a bit and continue to enjoy
Piaf: Hi Bob and Søren, I am really feeling a whole lot better about my Beomaster 2400. This is a Beomaster I didn’t want and had no interest in, but it came with a flawless Beogram 4002 so I purchased the pair. In its present configuration the Beomaster 2400 performs in what can only be described as effortlessly. What I left out, due to embarrassment, is in another physical situation by accident (The Beomaster 2400 back-fed through a common speaker switch-box), I powered the combination of Linn Isobaric, McIntosh ML-2, and Fisher XP66 speakers, all at the same time and at full volume. The Beomaster 2400 didn’t give the slightest hint of displeasure, but the cooling fins did indeed get very, very HOT. So I stopped the practice. In the same configuration the Beomaster 4500 delivered amazing, and I mean AMAZING sound, but it protested when pushed and reduced the volume. The Beomaster 2400 is consistent like a rock, unlike the Beomaster 4500 which I now fear is beginning to show signs of trouble. Of course it maybe it just doesn’t like the S120.2 speakers, but as the Beomaster 4400 simply can NOT tolerate these speakers, the Beomaster 4500 is kind of stuck. I really have no way of knowing if the Beomaster 2400 has ever had service, but assuming that it is all original, as I do, it appears to be a remarkable survivor. While I didn’t recently push it to maximum volume to check for the temperature of the cooling fins, I did manage to vibrate the remote off the top of the S-24 speaker and still the temperature at the fins was about 80° F. after over an hour of playing. Jeff
I think what I was trying to convey was my modestly powered Beomaster 2400 managed to power three sets if highly inefficient speakers, the Linn’s alone require 50 watts minimum, and it did it at high volume (genuinely HIGH volume) without the slightest hint of being winded.
My McIntosh 2255 was back at the factory being rebuilt, so I was using the Beomaster 4500 as its temporary replacement serving not only as my stereo, but also my home theater.
The mighty Mac has 500 watts of power, so it was a remarkable achievement that either of these amps could possibly serve in its place, but they did.
The Beomaster 2400’s participation was, as I said, an accident due to back-feeding though the common switch box. I was truly amazed by the performance in spite of the hot heat fins.
The real point is this Beomaster whose integrity has been called, understandably due to age, in to question did a great job, which I feel speaks volumes about its condition, age notwithstanding.
In contrast the Beomaster 4500 powering the exact same group of speakers did a better job, on one hand, in that the complexity and depth of sound was much, much better. On the other hand, the Beomaster 4500 could NOT match the volume of the Beomaster 2400.
Now this is important, so please note that I stated emphatically that the Beomaster 4500’s sound quality significantly exceedes the McIntosh 2255. Watching movies with the Beomaster 4500 as the audio source was incredibly lifelike whereas the McIntosh sound is somewhat cold, impersonal, and dare I say it, less lifelike.
I love my McIntosh and it is a great amplifier, but it is not the equal of the Beomaster 4500.
So in summation I simply have to say that Bang & Olufsen created some wonderful amplifiers in the 1900 family and I am MORE than pleased with both the 2400 and the 4500.
They sure did, beside remarkable design in the times (I personally "love" 4500 (unfortunately as for now haven't got Amp in collection, saying that - my main system (in "vintage corner" that is) is Beocenter 3500, and despite it's not Hi-End, or close - not even tempted replacing it (adding is another thing) 5 BC'S & BM's and counting ;) - perhaps fact that it was my first B&O have also something to do with it .... More importantly just think that these days products will be in 1y lost for good, yet this BC3500 stays put 40 years (as far as I know never touched by anyone else but good people of B&O at assmebly line) make up for not being as pretty as BM4500 or 9300.
All the best to you
Piaf: Hi Bob, .................................................................................................................. So in summation I simply have to say that Bang & Olufsen created some wonderful amplifiers in the 1900 family and I am MORE than pleased with both the 2400 and the 4500. Jeff
..................................................................................................................
Your BeoCenter 3500 is something of a jewel in the B&O family, quite handsome in its own way, kind of looks like a Beomaster 4400 with a turntable on top.
As for the beauty of the Beomaster 4500, I couldn’t agree with you more, the sleek design, the full-featured remote, and that glorious mellow sound.
I too have a Beocenter, the 9000 to be specific. Now THAT is a gorgeous design, breathtakingly stunning, a visual delight. The sound quality is like a cross between the Beomaster 2400 and the Beomaster 4500….. which is to say really good but not great.
My BeoCenter 9000 ended up in a dumpster in a local recycling centre along with a pair of S-75 and S-45 speakers. It would have been crushed had it not been for a friend who works in the centre and saved the lot thinking I might like it.
When I got the call my buddy told me he had a B&O CD player plus a bunch of speakers and would I like them? What saved the BeoCenter 9000 from being badly damaged is the owner put it in its original shipping box prior to dropping it off to be disposed of. You can imagine my SURPISE at the sight of that HUGE box…. I knew without opening the box that this was no CDX player.
The speakers suffered a bit being dumped, but the S-75’s remained remarkably pristine, if with VERY dry veneers. The S-45’s got scratched a bit and something nasty was dripped on one of the speaker grills…. took the color right out. I dyed the effected area to a reasonable level, I know its there but I doubt someone else would notice it.
The whole lot was disposed of because the CD door on the BeoCenter 9000 was not working properly, (Bad belt an easy fix) the CD player itself has a failing capacitor, and the S-45’s had two blown speakers. I had a spare set of S-45s so the speakers were a simple replacement.
So from out of the dumpster I got this beautiful (flawless) BeoCenter 9000 with handsome S-75 speakers and finally a proper pair of speakers for my Beomaster 2400, which has never been so happy.
I thought from what I've seen that you may be "my blood group" hence the friend request - turn out I wasn't wrong :)
My Beocenter 3500 sure is a gem to me and has it's place under the spotlight (anything what lives 40+ years and brings nothing than joy should be celebrated I think) I've bought this one as real bargain (because the Record deck was slow) and at same time got AKAI Reel2Reel and 2 pairs of S45's (while passed on Technics Tape deck - what seemed strange as most of my active settled down life I used to own Technics, some Sony's AKAI and Kenwoods).
I'm currently buying BM8500 (just couldn't resist good price, although it's a lots of bread loafs to skip) with x45's , (6th pair of Beovox speakers to date)and at same time hoping to rescue 1974 Beovox 3800's
I'd love to get the Beosystem 4500 together and at present negotiating purchase (with what I hope to be cherry on top - visit Leslie in not so near future) , but at the same time offering flawless BG CD 4500 for sale - go figure for right price as alternatively would like to put my paws on BM9300 system.
In fairness I don't mind keep them all (haven't got much space, therefore plans for extension shall take place ), what may mean the end of my days is coming closer and I no longer have the desire of go places....
To be honest; I've lived gypsy style of life for most of my adult years and learned not to cling to anything, lost all collection of anything due to constant moves (bread making, beacon bringing and all that, while having time of my life travelling the world ) and therefore despite "love" (don't like to abuse of this word) to records, Reel2Reel and cassettes in general - I haven't collect any for years as they always "stay behind" - not to mention refusing to adept materialistic ways of consumption life or to be driven by money or possession of anything for that matter.
I only started to collect B&O few months ago (by accident) and now cannot help myself - I'd say my missus is to blame as well for what she love's it all (especially seeing me happy within elements such Hi-Fi, Motorbikes and IT) .
What I cannot stand is waste and have great respect to anyone capable to produce anything to enrich (in the real sense) our lives for years to come...
Congratulation on your find (9000's are selling around here around £700) and to your actions resulting in some of the great B&O products not being destroyed - keep up the good work - you'll be handsomely rewarded for years to come :)
Why exactly did I told you all that....? I may have to much time on my hands, I suppose and YES that's the extra factor of B&O - make us Happy ;)
Piaf: Hi Bob, Your BeoCenter 3500 is something of a jewel in the B&O family, quite handsome in its own way, kind of looks like a Beomaster 4400 with a turntable on top. As for the beauty of the Beomaster 4500, I couldn’t agree with you more, the sleek design, the full-featured remote, and that glorious mellow sound. I too have a Beocenter, the 9000 to be specific. Now THAT is a gorgeous design, breathtakingly stunning, a visual delight. The sound quality is like a cross between the Beomaster 2400 and the Beomaster 4500….. which is to say really good but not great. My BeoCenter 9000 ended up in a dumpster in a local recycling centre along with a pair of S-75 and S-45 speakers. It would have been crushed had it not been for a friend who works in the centre and saved the lot thinking I might like it. When I got the call my buddy told me he had a B&O CD player plus a bunch of speakers and would I like them? What saved the BeoCenter 9000 from being badly damaged is the owner put it in its original shipping box prior to dropping it off to be disposed of. You can imagine my SURPISE at the sight of that HUGE box…. I knew without opening the box that this was no CDX player. The speakers suffered a bit being dumped, but the S-75’s remained remarkably pristine, if with VERY dry veneers. The S-45’s got scratched a bit and something nasty was dripped on one of the speaker grills…. took the color right out. I dyed the effected area to a reasonable level, I know its there but I doubt someone else would notice it. The whole lot was disposed of because the CD door on the BeoCenter 9000 was not working properly, (Bad belt an easy fix) the CD player itself has a failing capacitor, and the S-45’s had two blown speakers. I had a spare set of S-45s so the speakers were a simple replacement. So from out of the dumpster I got this beautiful (flawless) BeoCenter 9000 with handsome S-75 speakers and finally a proper pair of speakers for my Beomaster 2400, which has never been so happy. Jeff
Same blood type? Well probably very similar, although I detest travel…. love the memories, in retrospect always glad I went, but I loath those long flights in those cramped excuses for seats with me being 6’3”.
I am the consummate collector, although I kind of wish I wasn’t as this stuff is heavy and for reasons passing understanding I have been forced to move a lot.
Like you, I started collecting B&O products ENTIRELY by accident. I tried repeatedly to have my Beogram 8000 repaired, and the last attempt by a McIntosh dealer rendered it beyond repair.
Having much preferred my original 4002 to the 8000 (both purchased new) I went in search for a really nice Beogram 4002. With nothing locally available, I went to eBay and in spite of bidding INSANE amounts for several offerings, I was outbid again and again.
After months of this frustration I succeeded in purchasing a Beogram 4004 from a guy who had no idea what it was, displaying the platter upside-down, and in spite of too much packing material, the Beogram 4004 arrived damaged.
However before arriving my better half decided that I would not be satisfied with the 4004 in transit and insisted on my bidding on a Beogram 4002/Beomaster 2400 pair wanting to avoid horrendous disappointment. I won the pair, and so it started.
While all this was going on I had been researching Bang & Olufsen products and was intrigued by the iconic Beogram 4000. With two Beograms repaired from shipping damage and giving much pleasure I found a Beogram 4000 for sale on eBay. In Europe this is no big deal, but here in North America where the 4000 was never sold, it IS a big deal. I hear there are a handful, meaning five or less, and as far as I know, I have the only functioning 4000 in North America.
The seller insisted upon pick-up only and with him being in New York and my being in British Columbia this was a virtual impossibility. Numerous communications and he pulled the listing and wanted to talk. The seller wouldn’t sell him 4000 unless we spoke on the phone….. as I recall for well over an hour.
Anyway he decided I was the guy for his 4000 and the deal was done; only it arrived SHATTERED. The details are too long for this posting, but two BeoWorld members came to my aid and now the Beogram 4000 is the pinnacle of my collection. Thank you gentlemen, you know who you are.
Now with three Beograms I really wanted to repair my original Beogram 8000 and purchased parts from a very nice man in California. Somehow we kept in contact and the end result was he kept sending me stuff gratis: S-75 speakers, S-45 speakers, a Beogram 1602, AND his ugly but functioning Beogram 8000, which I cobbled together with my own pristine one to make a whole turntable.
The Beogram 8002 followed along with a Beocord 8004 and then a Beocord 9000.
The S120.2 speakers and the Beomaster 4400 were both added by unthinkable mistake.
With my house filling with B&O products a friend called me about the BeoCenter 9000 he found in the dumpster along with with more S-75 and S-45 speakers.
And that’s how I became a B&O collector.
The huge dealer sign, the company issued clock and all the rest just seemed like natural additions to what is quickly becoming a Bang & Olufsen museum….. in my home.
Hi Guys,
We have pretty well decided that my trusty Beomaster 2400 is performing remarkably well, ESPECIALLY if it has never been worked on, which is likely.
However with any electronic product it is only a matter of time before capacitors, transistors, etc. being failing so what should I look for as a hint there is an issue, as not to do damage as Søren warned about?
I imagine the signs are as varied as the potential problem parts. As with my Beomaster 4400 first it had NO bass, then the bass came back, but the upper end is just not right, not even close, so it has issues concerning both the bass and the treble, not to mention a feeble level of volume that my Beomaster 2400 can best without sweating.
I know to look for uneven heat from the back of the Beomaster, but what else gives evidence of problems?
I look forward to your cerebral input.
Yeah, the sliders / potentiometers may do with cleaning most likely does it changes when adjusting (such appearance or hesitation or delay)?
hope that helps bit ;)
Piaf: Hi Guys, We have pretty well decided that my trusty Beomaster 2400 is performing remarkably well, ESPECIALLY if it has never been worked on, which is likely. However with any electronic product it is only a matter of time before capacitors, transistors, etc. being failing so what should I look for as a hint there is an issue, as not to do damage as Søren warned about? I imagine the signs are as varied as the potential problem parts. As with my Beomaster 4400 first it had NO bass, then the bass came back, but the upper end is just not right, not even close, so it has issues concerning both the bass and the treble, not to mention a feeble level of volume that my Beomaster 2400 can best without sweating. I know to look for uneven heat from the back of the Beomaster, but what else gives evidence of problems? I look forward to your cerebral input. Jeff
All the sliders move smoothly, no hesitation of any kind, and no changes….. they work like they are brand new. Ditto all the buttons, nothing hesitates or is moody.
Absolutely nothing about this Beomaster 2400 shows the SLIGHTEST hint of age. I seriously mean nothing appears as anything but NEW.
This in contrast to my much talked about Beomaster 4500 which has issues in that twice now none of the buttons worked. The first time the remote brought the 4500 to life, but not so the second time. I had to unplug it to get it up and running. It also has tone variations, especially the bass, and last night when I cranked up the volume to clearly heard distortion, which came as a complete surprise.
Even though the Beomaster 4500 is showing signs of multiple electronic failures, it is still far more consistent than the Beomaster 4400 which acts like a woman at a certain time of the month.
I suspect someone like Martin or Peter would be also to detect some miniscule miss-steps on the part of my Beomaster 2400, but I certainly can not do so.
I am just wondering what to look for when things do start going bad.
Well in case of BM4500 (it's all down to electronics and most likely dried joints and similar common stuff - it's controlled through "computer unit" and remote), the 4400 on the other end (and to which I was referring) is pure electrical beast with all the ups and downs of manual regulators, sliders, switches etc.
Same rules applies as they would to old car bike or house if you don't maintain it - it will fall apart. From my "lengthy" experience as electronic instructor for Hi-Fi club and electrician I assure you that there isn't bigger enemy than dust, extremes in temperatures, humidity and so on,
also they came from different backgrounds of owners (I only assume) and even 2 same products will come across as totally different bread (it may be that the workmen didn't had his day that day on the unit)
with hesitation or delay I didn't meant mechanical (although all sliders are clearly mechanical parts changing resistance to current... you've got the idea) , that said I wouldn't proclaim myself to be ultimate authority, but from experience can say that "MOT" and bit of "house work = cleaning" will never get a miss. They are rather complex and may require adjustment on many levels - refer to manual, distortions unbalances and variations will occur for many unrelated (at first) reasons.
Now I will leave this to experts and go catch some sleep.
Peace
Piaf: Hi Bob, All the sliders move smoothly, no hesitation of any kind, and no changes….. they work like they are brand new. Ditto all the buttons, nothing hesitates or is moody. Absolutely nothing about this Beomaster 2400 shows the SLIGHTEST hint of age. I seriously mean nothing appears as anything but NEW. This in contrast to my much talked about Beomaster 4500 which has issues in that twice now none of the buttons worked. The first time the remote brought the 4500 to life, but not so the second time. I had to unplug it to get it up and running. It also has tone variations, especially the bass, and last night when I cranked up the volume to clearly heard distortion, which came as a complete surprise. Even though the Beomaster 4500 is showing signs of multiple electronic failures, it is still far more consistent than the Beomaster 4400 which acts like a woman at a certain time of the month. I suspect someone like Martin or Peter would be also to detect some miniscule miss-steps on the part of my Beomaster 2400, but I certainly can not do so. I am just wondering what to look for when things do start going bad. Jeff
I remember the B&O dealer I had would have similar events. and we were invited to bring in any cartridge for inspection under an electron microscope. It was so interesting to see the wear on a diamond after many hours of record plays compared to a brand new one., Nice gimmick because it worked. I was convinced enough to buy a new MMC cartridge.
ha ha, I'm sure you wasn't alone on that
Butcherman: I remember the B&O dealer I had would have similar events. and we were invited to bring in any cartridge for inspection under an electron microscope. It was so interesting to see the wear on a diamond after many hours of record plays compared to a brand new one., Nice gimmick because it worked. I was convinced enough to buy a new MMC cartridge.
I took Bob’s advice to heart and opened up my Beomaster 2400 in search of dust, but didn’t find much, a surprise, but a very good thing. I did do a thorough cleaning and then it hit me (late as usual) I could post photos to see if this Beomaster is indeed original as heck, or if it has been worked on, so here goes.
Technically challenged as I am, I still do not know how to post multiple photos, so I will do so one at a time.
Picture 2
Picture 3