ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Sandyb: He is of the view that people who don't feel compelled by the Eclipse are critiquing it from a distance, without trying it. Like many I suspect, by now we have given it a proper look, of a bunch of occasions, and still don't feel compelled by it. Again, that shouldnt be difficult to understand or accept. Where MM and others are correct, and actually most would agree on, is that BV's as a all in one / more than screen offering can be a great thing. But as I've said before, there are compromises in almost every TV - many enthusiasts are unhappy that top end form factors (Wallpaper, Rollable) or panels (Panasonic GZ200) come bundled with sound solutions that enthusiasts don't often want. The best OS, the best video processing, the best audio options / connectivity don't exist in a single offering. It's not a perfect world.
He is of the view that people who don't feel compelled by the Eclipse are critiquing it from a distance, without trying it.
Like many I suspect, by now we have given it a proper look, of a bunch of occasions, and still don't feel compelled by it.
Again, that shouldnt be difficult to understand or accept.
Where MM and others are correct, and actually most would agree on, is that BV's as a all in one / more than screen offering can be a great thing.
But as I've said before, there are compromises in almost every TV - many enthusiasts are unhappy that top end form factors (Wallpaper, Rollable) or panels (Panasonic GZ200) come bundled with sound solutions that enthusiasts don't often want.
The best OS, the best video processing, the best audio options / connectivity don't exist in a single offering.
It's not a perfect world.
The Eclipse is not perfect, as you point out nothing is.
But I just state that there is no alternative,
And most of all the past was not better as you are trying to say.
Keep to the reality instead of thinking the past was better.
And by all means critisize the Eclipse all you want but do it with actually facts, that is what I am looking for.
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
I didn't say most of the past - I said at times.
I've explained numerous times why its a very good but not compelling product, to me.
And why given tis price, I'd prefer better video processing.
And if you haven't picked up on what most reviewers have said in recent years about Sony and Panasonic processing, I can't help you.
Don't present everything as binary choice - statements like "there is no alternative" are the kind of dogma that is unpleasant.
Emil - when B&O did their own picture processing they were, pretty much, the best. Most reviews said so. The picture "depth" was unreal. The colour thing you have latched onto to try to prove your point was actually a company preference - it was done on purpose as the B&O engineers believed it to be best. It was a "signature" picture in the same was that the speakers have a signature sound. Reviews voted them the best TV on the market (incl. picture) many, many times.
You may prefer to ignore/disbelieve/pretend it never happened - that's entirely up to you, rather than ask folk to provide evidence why not do your own research before claiming others are wrong - its out there. Most here recognised B&O's video processing abilities and most will have mourned their loss (other than the LG fans obviously).
Ban boring signatures!
Sandyb: I didn't say most of the past - I said at times. I've explained numerous times why its a very good but not compelling product, to me. And why given tis price, I'd prefer better video processing. And if you haven't picked up on what most reviewers have said in recent years about Sony and Panasonic processing, I can't help you. Don't present everything as binary choice - statements like "there is no alternative" are the kind of dogma that is unpleasant.
But the conversation is very limit if we talk what you want and what I want. We have settle that way back.
So as much as we can we should try to be objective,
Have you seen the link I have given to flatpanels were all the OLED are rated?
And off cause to this price I would prefer the best video processing, but I and most reviewers agree that between OLED screen the difference is so small, that it is everything around the picture quality that should be the things you choose it by.
And anyway how in the world should B&O be cable of be certain of the best video processing, LG got closer to Sony last year, and who knows they might be best this year or next.
Puncher: Emil - when B&O did their own picture processing they were, pretty much, the best. Most reviews said so. The picture "depth" was unreal. The colour thing you have latched onto to try to prove your point was actually a company preference - it was done on purpose as the B&O engineers believed it to be best. It was a "signature" picture in the same was that the speakers have a signature sound. Reviews voted them the best TV on the market (incl. picture) many, many times. You may prefer to ignore/disbelieve/pretend it never happened - that's entirely up to you, rather than ask folk to provide evidence why not do your own research before claiming others are wrong - its out there. Most here recognised B&O's video processing abilities and most will have mourned their loss (other than the LG fans obviously).
Hallo Puncher,
I am not trying to be ignorant, but maybe my age do not allow to me remember this far back.
And therefore it is impossible for me to find evidence. And in a perfect world it should be the people who makes the claims that show the evidence shouln't it???
Emil Jensen: Sandyb: I didn't say most of the past - I said at times. I've explained numerous times why its a very good but not compelling product, to me. And why given tis price, I'd prefer better video processing. And if you haven't picked up on what most reviewers have said in recent years about Sony and Panasonic processing, I can't help you. Don't present everything as binary choice - statements like "there is no alternative" are the kind of dogma that is unpleasant. But the conversation is very limit if we talk what you want and what I want. We have settle that way back. So as much as we can we should try to be objective, Have you seen the link I have given to flatpanels were all the OLED are rated? And off cause to this price I would prefer the best video processing, but I and most reviewers agree that between OLED screen the difference is so small, that it is everything around the picture quality that should be the things you choose it by. And anyway how in the world should B&O be cable of be certain of the best video processing, LG got closer to Sony last year, and who knows they might be best this year or next.
Its at the point now where you're writing to convince yourself you have the best TV! Others are pointing out why they wouldn't buy it while you dismiss their points as ignorable.
LG's picture quality next year is irrelevant because its not in this years Eclipse (which happens to be last years Eclipse too). I'm pleased you love your TV but you needn't defend it to the hilt against anyone who says they wouldn't buy one!
Emil Jensen: Puncher: Emil - when B&O did their own picture processing they were, pretty much, the best. Most reviews said so. The picture "depth" was unreal. The colour thing you have latched onto to try to prove your point was actually a company preference - it was done on purpose as the B&O engineers believed it to be best. It was a "signature" picture in the same was that the speakers have a signature sound. Reviews voted them the best TV on the market (incl. picture) many, many times. You may prefer to ignore/disbelieve/pretend it never happened - that's entirely up to you, rather than ask folk to provide evidence why not do your own research before claiming others are wrong - its out there. Most here recognised B&O's video processing abilities and most will have mourned their loss (other than the LG fans obviously). Hallo Puncher, I am not trying to be ignorant, but maybe my age do not allow to me remember this far back. And therefore it is impossible for me to find evidence. And in a perfect world it should be the people who makes the claims that show the evidence shouln't it???
Surely the "new claims" - history is there for all to see!
Puncher: Its at the point now where you're writing to convince yourself you have the best TV! Others are pointing out why they wouldn't buy it while you dismiss their points as ignorable. LG's picture quality next year is irrelevant because its not in this years Eclipse (which happens to be last years Eclipse too). I'm pleased you love your TV but you needn't defend it to the hilt against anyone who says they wouldn't buy one!
I am well aware that I dont have the best picture available, as all other Beovision owners through time.
And yes this year is not relevant unless the Eclipse is updated.
And it is totally fine that you would not buy the Eclipse beacuse it is 1% worse picture then the competitor, though by changing your current TV you would improve by 30%(Last number grabbed from thin air)
What I do not think is okay is that there is a lot of talk and zero evidence, and all hear say. I am not impressed
And yes B&O is missing alternatives to the Eclipse, and if you can wait to buy, then do.
But if you need a new tv right now, is there a alternative, clearly not.
All the things I've said above - you've just done again!
Carry on and enjoy your life.
Puncher: All the things I've said above - you've just done again! Carry on and enjoy your life.
Remarkable isn't it.
The lack of self awareness is quite simply staggering.
You are correct Puncher,
It seems when you repeat yourself i do.
And thank I will, and hope you will to.
If you ever feel the power to actually come up with some proves for you statements I will be ready to eat my had
Sandyb: Puncher: All the things I've said above - you've just done again! Carry on and enjoy your life. Remarkable isn't it. The lack of self awareness is quite simply staggering.
Quit the missing self awareness from all three of us.
But I guess for you two it is easier roll your head at me, instead of back your statement up with facts,
@ Puncher
In summary, BeoVision 7-55 delivers the very best picture quality I've seen from an LCD TV and from B&O.
18 Jan 2010. Rasmus Larsen
https://www.flatpanels.dk/nyhed.php?misc=search&subaction=showfull&id=1263802373
Thanks - I knew that was there, but the people I'm talking to aren't interested, they have their own agenda!
And thanks again PP ( I can be fair after all!)
And I imagine the 12-65 would have had pretty stellar reviews, if it had been widely reviewed.
The debate above is or should not be about "facts" so much as it is about preferences.
Not everyone weighs up everything the same way, why should they after all.
I'm in no-ones camp - prepared to wait to see what B&O offers, as I highly value the integrated solutions, but unlikely to shell out 10K+ if it doesn't tick my boxes.
As you say, at times they have produced an image process etc that goes someway towards justifying the value, to me.
And from my experience (of what I like), I gave up the much nicer design of the 14 (2nd room screen) and its poor picture, for the lesser design of the Avant, but I don't mind, because the picture is better. i.e. the thing that makes me happiest in the end is the type of image I want.
Oh I know the BV7-55
Fantastic because of its back light,
Best to be seen. No doubt. (That plasma were better in everyway is another old discussion)
So okay I lost I amid defeat B&O was best, that was the discussion.
Was it because of the software, no it was because of the hardware.
And as Sandby points out Panasonic is doing something speciel with their panel here in 2019, so no excuse right.
I dont see in any cases this would be plausible for B&O in 2019, even if they did not fire everyone. Too difficilt. But that is my opinion, no one knows.
So yea you guys win everything was better before, B&O is doomed. Lets all take a beer
And let us all settle with off the shelf tv's have a ton of cables and remotes.
Emil Jensen: 2 axel motor stand, as My tv is against the wall, A remote that is not plastic, Oled screen, One remote for everything so my girlfriend wants to use it, God surround processor, and with WiSa if possible, that is more a nice to have than need to have. And a Center speaker that can perform with my Beolab 20 If it can look pretty in the same time I would prefer it, but for fun lets say that does not matter at all. If you cannot fit all the boxes, then please show me anyway.
2 axel motor stand, as My tv is against the wall,
A remote that is not plastic,
Oled screen,
One remote for everything so my girlfriend wants to use it,
God surround processor, and with WiSa if possible, that is more a nice to have than need to have.
And a Center speaker that can perform with my Beolab 20
If it can look pretty in the same time I would prefer it, but for fun lets say that does not matter at all.
If you cannot fit all the boxes, then please show me anyway.
Smart TV, 4k, HDR all the bells and whistles?
Sandyb: And from my experience (of what I like), I gave up the much nicer design of the 14 (2nd room screen) and its poor picture, for the lesser design of the Avant, but I don't mind, because the picture is better. i.e. the thing that makes me happiest in the end is the type of image I want.
You have the Avant?
Sorry to say but that is not a good picture.
If you upgraded to a Eclipse you would be shocked how a picture should look like
BEOVOX141: Emil Jensen: 2 axel motor stand, as My tv is against the wall, A remote that is not plastic, Oled screen, One remote for everything so my girlfriend wants to use it, God surround processor, and with WiSa if possible, that is more a nice to have than need to have. And a Center speaker that can perform with my Beolab 20 If it can look pretty in the same time I would prefer it, but for fun lets say that does not matter at all. If you cannot fit all the boxes, then please show me anyway. Smart TV, 4k, HDR all the bells and whistles?
No need for smart tv, I use the Apple TV, but remember one remote.
HDR off cause, 4K will come by it self.
I can see I did not write it, but clearly a new TV, I am not going to buy a used one. (Also not easy to compare prices)
never said they were doomed.
I said yesterday not to be literal or absolutist, or project some other feelings on top of what some might be saying.
Like earlier, when I said at times BV's have been the best (or near as damn it) PQ wise......you responded as if I'd said it to be true of all BV's in the past.
Which I never did.
Where we agree is that tons of cables and remotes is not good, but thats why we are here in the first place.
I'l wait and see what they offer, and then judge from there.
Emil Jensen: Sandyb: And from my experience (of what I like), I gave up the much nicer design of the 14 (2nd room screen) and its poor picture, for the lesser design of the Avant, but I don't mind, because the picture is better. i.e. the thing that makes me happiest in the end is the type of image I want. You have the Avant? Sorry to say but that is not a good picture. If you upgraded to a Eclipse you would be shocked how a picture should look like
Yes, I agree - but as I said its a second screen in my bedroom.
And as I have posted numerous times before, I would never have bought it for my main room.
I only watch sport on it, and it's fine for that.
I gave back the 14 because its dimming was atrocious, the Avant Mk1 is much better, even if its not outstanding.
There are some here who don't mind the 14, which I find puzzling.
But few here are videophiles, I get that much (nothing wrong with that of course).
@ Sandyb - That was what it was then.
Henrik • 7 years agoHi Flatpanels, I would like to hear if you are considering making a test of Beovision 12-65? When you tested BV7-55, the conclusion was that B&O had made the best television on the market. It might be interesting to hear if BV12 can surpass BV7 and what the difference is between the products, as it is 2 different screen technologies that have been used.
Rasmus Larsen Mod Henrik • 7 years agoNo, unfortunately - not immediately.
Rasmus Larsen - BeoVision 12-65
https://www.flatpanels.dk/nyhed.php?subaction=showfull&id=1326222600
https://www.flatpanels.dk/test.php?subaction=showfull&id=1376465983
And okay I might seem over the top sorry,
I am just trying to say the video part, B&O will never be the best unless LG is the best.
If you think the Eclipse is ugly, too expensive or else, it is legit.
And B&O should launch a tv between the Horizon and the Eclipse, a bestseller by all means.
I just think it is a crazy world where you dont really have alternatives,
I pulled the trigger on the Eclipse when it was discounted the first time, and I hoped they would launch a cheaper alternative, but they didn't
Lets hope B&O put their head out of their ass and start realeasing new product.
But anyway thank for the discussion :)
Emil Jensen:Intet behov for smart tv, jeg bruger Apple TV, men husk en fjernbetjening.
Wireless audio between Apple TV and B&O BeoLab speakers
With an Apple TV4, a set of older B&O BeoLab 9, and a desire to make them work together wirelessly.Here is a guide on how to get sound from Netflix, DR TV, HBO Nordic etc. wirelessly beyond BeoLabspeakers. A wireless solution that could work with both TV audio and music, and without delay on the sound.
Apple TV4 (and Apple TV3) can output all TV audio wirelessly using the Airplay system without delay.
B&O has products with built-in Airplay, which at the same time can trigger the speakers to turn on only when they are in use. One of these solutions is the BeoSound Essence MK2 box. Essence is connected via PowerLink cables to BeoLabthe speakers (a joystick smokes obviously). The Essence MK2 box is set up for your WiFi network.
The Apple TV box can now watch Essence Mk2 as an Airplay speaker, and when selected, the TV audio is broadcast wirelesslyfrom Apple TV to Essence and routed to the BeoLab speakers. There is now wireless TV audio between Apple TV4 and speakers.
Because Airplay is built on the system level of Apple TV, the solution works with almost all apps, includingNetflix, iTunes, DR TV, Viaplay, HBO Nordic, TV2 Play, Plex and YouTube. Some developers have chosen to remove the option to select audio output from the top menu during playback, including Infuse, but you can still enable the feature from the settings menu on Apple TV.
It also works with the Apple Music app if, for example, want to watch music videos and have the sound beyond BeoLab speakers. The advantage of this wireless solution is that it can all be controlled by the remote control Apple TV, without using the TV's remote control. So volume can be regulated with remote to AppleTV, Remote app for iPhone (if your TV supports full HDMI CEC), or using B & Os Essence remotes.
This is a stereo solution, not surround. Obviously, this solution only works for the content being played via the Apple TV box.
I think the Eclipse needs to get an award for being the single B&O product that has produced the most posts on Beoworld in perhaps ever. If controversy made a product great, it'd be among the greatest.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Wow, that's a triumph of logic!
Why would anyone who doesn't like it be a owner?
Or are you trying to play the "you only don't like it because you can't afford it" card? - in which case you're wrong again!
Puncher: Wow, that's a triumph of logic! Why would anyone who doesn't like it be a owner? Or are you trying to play the "you only don't like it because you can't afford it" card? - in which case you're wrong again!
Plus it's pretty early in its lifespan to be commenting on reliability.
I don't think any comments on smell would properly be directed at the TV. Just sayin.
You're falling into the same self inflicted trap.
Saying it doesn't tick all your (in my case, mine) boxes is not saying its bad, just not for me.
Why do you guys continually over generalise and project?
As I said above, despite getting dragged down a rabbit hole over picture quality, my principal issue is I don't love the design.
I had a 14 from launch, before it went back, so I know what bad truly is.
Not everyone rationalises the price premium the same way and reaches the same conclusion. The specs are good, the heritage feel is less so.
Matters to some, less to others.
Why that should prove so desperately controversial is beyond me - its not as if I;m alone in wondering where the future classics are in the current product portfolio. In fact, its probably the most oft repeated critique of the company, alongside software issues.
Well, we can add clumsy sarcasm (soon you'll be complaining about its smell) now to todays dogmatic sloganeering (There. Is. No. Alternative!).
And yes, repetition of the "those who don't like it should really go and try it".....
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4
Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/
Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Jeff:Plus it's pretty early in its lifespan to be commenting on reliability.
NOOOP. You'll find the highest percentage of B&O issues / care / warranty are early in the life of the product and has been this way for 10-15 years.
BEOVOX141: Millemissen:When cooperating with LG is the best way to make a current BV, I see no reason why not to do it Out of pure curiosity: Would you consider the Eclipse architecture better or worse than the traditional Beosystem approach? And would you agree, being an Avant owner, that a Beosystem 5 is more or less already there?
Millemissen:When cooperating with LG is the best way to make a current BV, I see no reason why not to do it
Out of pure curiosity: Would you consider the Eclipse architecture better or worse than the traditional Beosystem approach?
And would you agree, being an Avant owner, that a Beosystem 5 is more or less already there?
No, not necsessarily. but it is the best a company like B&O can do under the current circumstances.
So, the question is actually irrelevant.
I would not call it a BeoSystem (5) - maybe not to confuse those, who see a BSys as something with video processing built in.
There is also no tuner/no tuners - which again may be an advantage, because the world of tuners are also rapidly changing.
By the way, tuners and tuner solutions aren’t/weren’t house-build in Struer.
Maybe the name Sound Center is more correct, though not describing the full functionallity, that is necsessary for a cooperative solution with a tv company like LG..............that name probably is thought out in the marketing department of B&O.
I guess (as far as a version with built-in speakers is concerned) what is needed, is well described here:
https://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2017/09/15/bo-tech-its-not-just-a-soundbar/
A standalone ‘BSys5’/Sound Center solution, that is supposed to work with a stock tv (of any brand) would have to be different, since there can be no easy way to make a fluent control interface for both parts.
After all, controlling a BV Eclipse is pretty much the same as controlling older BV’s as far as UI and remote control is concerned.
P.S. ‘Avant and BeoSystem 5’.....the system there is a BSys4-based version - it has a version number, which I don’t recall right now
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
@ Millemissen
BSys4 is Discontinued, no longer found on B & O's price list. PUC codes are also no longer updated.
Peter Pan: @ Millemissen BSys4 is Discontinued, no longer found on B & O's price list. PUC codes are also no longer updated.
Sure, but why do you tell me that?
PUC codes are directly downloadable - now as before.
PUC codes are not updated to new products as before. Try it.
Hallo Hero71
Whatever we hope for, we cannot expect B&O to afford to launch more BeoVision TVs.
Does Peter Pan really have the crystal ball he claims to have.....or is that just a mock-up 🙄
Peter Pan: MM PUC codes are not updated to new products as before. Try it.
What is there to try?