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ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022
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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022

 

What is going on with B&O’s current TV lineup?

This post has 167 Replies | 1 Follower

Peter Pan
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@ MM

Nothing - it's over. No - thumbs down

BEOVOX141
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Millemissen:
I would not call it a BeoSystem (5) - maybe not to confuse those, who see a BSys as something with video processing built in.

I was referring to the Avant ? Are you saying its without 4k Video processing and tuners?

My point is a simple HDMI output would have been enough to provide a Beosystem 5, capable of controlling any TV!

 

BEOVOX141
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Peter Pan:

@ MM

Nothing - it's over. No - thumbs down

Lets wait a few more days before we pass the final verdict!

Normann
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Normann replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 9:36 AM

 

"Lets wait a few more days before we pass the final verdict!"

 

Yes - thumbs upBig Smile

Peter Pan
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Peter Pan replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 10:21 AM

Hov:
Incredibly B&O still hasn't made an independent soundbar - and maybe at an edible price.
They cling to the past with the idea of selling television. Should the stock price not get them
to look a little differently on things. Would be great if B&O would soon go all in for audio solutions
and surround systems for anything other than their "own" TVs they still can't make / sell. Wake up B&O.

Bravo Hov.

Millemissen
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BEOVOX141:

Millemissen:
I would not call it a BeoSystem (5) - maybe not to confuse those, who see a BSys as something with video processing built in.

I was referring to the Avant ? Are you saying its without 4k Video processing and tuners?

My point is a simple HDMI output would have been enough to provide a Beosystem 5, capable of controlling any TV!

 

1: Maybe your question was not clear (enogh)?

or

2: I did not understand what you meant?

 

—-

’a simple HDMI output.....’ - if it was that easy....that would be magic 🙃

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

BEOVOX141
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BEOVOX141 replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 12:22 PM

Millemissen:
a simple HDMI output.....’ - if it was that easy....that would be magic 🙃

You are absolutely right, it was(is).

OldJack
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OldJack replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 12:24 PM

’a simple HDMI output.....’ - if it was that easy....that would be magic 🙃

 

MM

 

That should not be difficult.Look at the Oppo Udp203,second hdmi outputs audio only.

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beojeff
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beojeff replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 12:29 PM

Peter Pan:

@ Millemissen

BSys4 is Discontinued, no longer found on B & O's price list. PUC codes are also no longer updated.

Peter Pan makes a very good point here. The PUC list for TVs is very small and old. B&O hasn't been adding recent UHD players. I had to email BeoCare and received a PUC file for a Sony UHD player 2 weeks later. I had to install it manually. I checked and it still is not in the PUC database. What's the point of having this PUC online database if we still have to bother BeoCare to get the PUC files that we need? Why not just add these to the online database?

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beojeff replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 1:02 PM

Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the past. Sometimes, HDR looks great. Sometimes, it doesn't. Also, there seems to be a lot going on with regard to EDID recognition over HDMI. Especially with the Apple TV 4K. It's a challenge to get the settings on the tv just right. Having any video processing added in that chain should be avoided. A BeoSystem 5 should not do any video processing. It should just pass the signal on to the TV and let the TV handle those settings. Let the BeoSystem 5 focus on where B&O excels: sound. With the content now available, B&O really needs to support Dolby Atmos -- whether that be with a soundbar or with a BeoSystem for connecting more speakers -- or both.

Millemissen
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The PUC list for TVs is very small and old‘ - maybe Peter Pan should have specified that....if this was what he meant.

As for PUC’s in general I am not able to know anything - maybe that is just part of an evolution, where the sources that people need and use are built-in as app’s in the tv’s/a SmartTV function.

Never the less, you got the PUC, that you needed 😉

MM

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Millemissen
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beojeff:

Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the past. Sometimes, HDR looks great. Sometimes, it doesn't. Also, there seems to be a lot going on with regard to EDID recognition over HDMI. Especially with the Apple TV 4K. It's a challenge to get the settings on the tv just right. Having any video processing added in that chain should be avoided. A BeoSystem 5 should not do any video processing. It should just pass the signal on to the TV and let the TV handle those settings. Let the BeoSystem 5 focus on where B&O excels: sound. With the content now available, B&O really needs to support Dolby Atmos -- whether that be with a soundbar or with a BeoSystem for connecting more speakers -- or both.

Thanks for a real-life report.

And how do you control the app’s (and settings etc) of that tv with your beoremote?

MM

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BEOVOX141
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beojeff:
Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the pas

Are you running 4k HDR through the Beosystem 4 ?

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 1:25 PM

Millemissen:

beojeff:

Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the past. Sometimes, HDR looks great. Sometimes, it doesn't. Also, there seems to be a lot going on with regard to EDID recognition over HDMI. Especially with the Apple TV 4K. It's a challenge to get the settings on the tv just right. Having any video processing added in that chain should be avoided. A BeoSystem 5 should not do any video processing. It should just pass the signal on to the TV and let the TV handle those settings. Let the BeoSystem 5 focus on where B&O excels: sound. With the content now available, B&O really needs to support Dolby Atmos -- whether that be with a soundbar or with a BeoSystem for connecting more speakers -- or both.

Thanks for a real-life report.

And how do you control the app’s (and settings etc) of that tv with your beoremote?

MM

I use either the Apple TV or the Sony UHD player for apps such as Netflix, Amazon, etc. They offer the best interface and can be controlled with the BeoRemote One via the BeoSystem 4. The BeoSystem 4 native app list is a good reminder to avoid relying on the TV for those services. The app list on the BeoSystem 4 looks like a very sad ghost town.

A have an XML file on a Beo6 for menu control of the Samsung TV. However, this is really just needed for the initial setup -- which could also be done with the Samsung remote and then store it away. My BLGW with Global Caché automatically changes the TV's input based on the BeoSystem 4 source. I can also manually change the TV's video inputs using CONTROL functions on the BeoRemote One. However, a future B&O system could easily do this with CEC if needed. Yet, if a new B&O system supports 4K, it could do the video switching from within the BeoSystem itself.

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 1:29 PM

BEOVOX141:

beojeff:
Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the pas

Are you running 4k HDR through the Beosystem 4 ?

The BeoSystem 4 doesn't support 4K. The Sony UHD player has separate HDMI outputs for video (directly to the tv) and audio (to the BS4). I have an HDFury HDMI splitter to do the same for the Apple TV 4K. For all non-4K sources, I have the video going from the BeoSystem 4 to the TV.

This shows how this could all be simplified with a 4K-compatible Beosystem 5 that does the source switching and just passes the unprocessed video to the TV.

Millemissen
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BEOVOX141:

Millemissen:
a simple HDMI output.....’ - if it was that easy....that would be magic 🙃

You are absolutely right, it was(is).

Indeed what you show there is nothing new - some people even used that for mirror tv’s in the bathroom decades ago.

That tv however is just a display - the sources are in or connected to the BeoSystem.

Today the situation is a completely different - there are hardly no external sources anymore.

Everything is handled via the tv/the apps built-in there.

People don’t connect a DVD/BluRay player anymore, hardly an ATV in near future, ChromeCast is built-in to the tv....soon noone will need an oldschool tv-tuner, since streaming is prefred to flowtw.

You may not like it - but it is the reality, that B&O must face, when they offer a tv nowadays.

The challenge will be: how to control that tv with the B&O remote logic - and how to handle the sound that is associated with the video of the tv in an external B&O sound device.

Otherweise we would end up with a tv with it’s own remote  (maybe even voice controlled) and a set of (B&O) speakers....something that maybe will appeal to some users, but certainly would have lost most of what I consider B&O’ish.

MM

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BEOVOX141
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beojeff:
The BeoSystem 4 doesn't support 4K. The Sony UHD player has separate HDMI outputs for video (directly to the tv) and audio (to the BS4). I have an HDFury HDMI splitter to do the same for the Apple TV 4K. For all non-4K sources, I have the video going from the BeoSystem 4 to the TV.

I know, I had a feeling you were up to something funky Smile

beojeff:
This shows how this could all be simplified with a 4K-compatible Beosystem 5 that does the source switching and just passes the unprocessed video to the TV.

My point exactly, just add twin tuners and your done! 

Millemissen
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beojeff:

BEOVOX141:

beojeff:
Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the pas

Are you running 4k HDR through the Beosystem 4 ?

The BeoSystem 4 doesn't support 4K. The Sony UHD player has separate HDMI outputs for video (directly to the tv) and audio (to the BS4). I have an HDFury HDMI splitter to do the same for the Apple TV 4K. For all non-4K sources, I have the video going from the BeoSystem 4 to the TV.

This shows how this could all be simplified with a 4K-compatible Beosystem 5 that does the source switching and just passes the unprocessed video to the TV.

Thanks fur the further deatails.

Certainly something that you can handle and live with.

I am just thinking of, what would happen, if B&O launched a similar solution to their costumers - to costumers, who are far from having your insight and skills?

This is not what people in general want (maybe some of the Beoworlders, yes) - they want siimplicity and one thing that does everything.

In that hinsight the BV Eclipse is a good choice from the guys in Struer (even the speakers are built-in).

I do hope they keep up this way of doing things....

....anything else is much too complicated for the general costumer.

Do remember: B&O has to live from regular costumers, not from nerds like us.

MM

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beojeff
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beojeff replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 1:45 PM

BEOVOX141:

beojeff:
The BeoSystem 4 doesn't support 4K. The Sony UHD player has separate HDMI outputs for video (directly to the tv) and audio (to the BS4). I have an HDFury HDMI splitter to do the same for the Apple TV 4K. For all non-4K sources, I have the video going from the BeoSystem 4 to the TV.

I know, I had a feeling you were up to something funky Smile

beojeff:
This shows how this could all be simplified with a 4K-compatible Beosystem 5 that does the source switching and just passes the unprocessed video to the TV.

My point exactly, just add twin tuners and your done! 

I fully agree with you. B&O could offer a simple solution.

For right now, I find that UHD discs truly present how B&O's speakers provide much better sound than just streamed sound. I wonder, however, if this would still be the case if a future B&O Beosystem would be capable of decoding Dolby Atmos. Could the Dolby Atmos sound from streamed content be just as good as audio content from a disc? I have no way of comparing since B&O doesn't currently support Dolby Atmos.

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 1:51 PM

Millemissen:

beojeff:

BEOVOX141:

beojeff:
Having lived with a new 75" 4K HDR tv for a week now and using it with my BeoSystem 4, I'm finding that video has become more complicated than it was in the pas

Are you running 4k HDR through the Beosystem 4 ?

The BeoSystem 4 doesn't support 4K. The Sony UHD player has separate HDMI outputs for video (directly to the tv) and audio (to the BS4). I have an HDFury HDMI splitter to do the same for the Apple TV 4K. For all non-4K sources, I have the video going from the BeoSystem 4 to the TV.

This shows how this could all be simplified with a 4K-compatible Beosystem 5 that does the source switching and just passes the unprocessed video to the TV.

Thanks fur the further deatails.

Certainly something that you can handle and live with.

I am just thinking of, what would happen, if B&O launched a similar solution to their costumers - to costumers, who are far from having your insight and skills?

This is not what people in general want (maybe some of the Beoworlders, yes) - they want siimplicity and one thing that does everything.

In that hinsight the BV Eclipse is a good choice from the guys in Struer (even the speakers are built-in).

I do hope they keep up this way of doing things....

....anything else is much too complicated for the general costumer.

Do remember: B&O has to live from regular costumers, not from nerds like us.

MM

MM-

I think that we both agree that B&O offers elegant control. Our point of difference is -- and always has been -- whether this is done via a BeoVision or a BeoSystem. I know that you prefer a BeoVision. However, I prefer a BeoSystem. I always have. Through the years, I have enjoyed having an AV7000, BeoSystem 1, BeoSystem 3, and now BeoSystem 4 handle all of this. I just will not pay over $10,000 for a TV. What I appreciate most from B&O is the sound quality. I see no reason why B&O can't cater to the needs of both of us.

Millemissen
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beojeff:

MM-

I think that we both agree that B&O offers elegant control. Our point of difference is -- and always has been -- whether this is done via a BeoVision or a BeoSystem. I know that you prefer a BeoVision. However, I prefer a BeoSystem. I always have. Through the years, I have enjoyed having an AV7000, BeoSystem 1, BeoSystem 3, and now BeoSystem 4 handle all of this. I just will not pay over $10,000 for a TV. What I appreciate most from B&O is the sound quality. I see no reason why B&O can't cater to the needs of both of us.

Honestly my concern is not so much what you or I would want....note, that I haven’t even talked about what I personally would want.

What I am thinking of is, what B&O must/will have to do in order to keep the general costumer satisfied....means sell A/V solutions (and maybe additional speakers).

What do they need to present, that will sell is the question.

I am pretty sure, that you and I will find a solution, that may suit us better, if we are not satisfied with what will reach the stores.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Peter Pan
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This was spoken by B&O's 'secret' PR machine. Smile Then I believe that B&O should not do anything.

Peter Pan
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Remember there are both HDMI 2.1 and eARC on a LG OLED 2019 TV.

"A box with 1 HDMI 2.1 / eARC output for the wired connection, and WiSA can be controlled with an app such as
Beosound Edge etc. Speakers can be set via the app. (My 5.1 system). No remote control, no Puc, no picture
from it to a display. All packed in a plastic box that can be stored behind the TV. Easy."

I dare not write who wrote this. Smile

Epsilon20
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I had a Loewe Bild 7 with a motorised stand, OLED screen a 5.1 decoder built in and could connect to by beolabs via WISA or hardwire and its worked great. For 2 years nearly I always thought the eclipse was overpriced but after doing a part exchange and taking advantage of the £1500 off the telly B&O were offering i took the plunge.

No regrets from me as my speakers connect via WISA, i have a nicer movable stand, the nice remote, speaker groups and it connects with my other speakers int he dinning room via the beosound core.

If your not in the B&O ecosystem then an eclipse s probably overkill. For me it made sense after spending 2 years trying to find work arounds for my LOEWE tv connecting to me speakers and spending loads of cables, adapters, the almando box, a LG universal remote etc.

I could get sony. LG, Panasonic but i just wanted simplicity in the end plus an elegant solution for my existing speakers.

Beovision Eclipse 55 Brass Edition with Oak covers and Brass Orbital stand

Beolab 50s silver & Oak, Beolab 18 Brass with Smoked Oak, Beolab 18 Rose Gold with Maple Covers, Beolab 19 Black.

Peter Pan
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@ Epsilon20

However, just like everyone here at BeoWorld, had expected that time, B&O constructed the Beo SountCenter
for C8 panel in 2018 and C9 in 2019, after consumer choice, the B&O stores had sold many more Eclipse.

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Peter Pan:

@ Epsilon20

However, just like everyone here at BeoWorld, had expected that time, B&O constructed the Beo SountCenter
for C8 panel in 2018 and C9 in 2019, after consumer choice, the B&O stores had sold many more Eclipse.

It seems to me, that you want to talk around of the experience and result of the tests of Epsilon.

You simply don’t want it to be true.

Now where do you see the (big) difference/s in the C7 and the C8 panel of the LG part - and a real need for an exchange?

Are you just nitpicking, maybe!

And how do you know, whether there may be a 2019 update of the Eclipse or not (or even a new tv based on the 2019 models).....the 2019 tv’s from LG are not even released yet.

MM

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Peter Pan
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@ Millemissen  

I'll try again
B&O should have made their Soundcenter so that it could be adapted to
many TV models. It had taken a little longer time, and given a bigger sale.

Aussie Michael
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Peter Pan:

@ Millemissen

I'll try again B&O should have made their Soundcenter so that it could be adapted to many TV models. It had taken a little longer time, and given a bigger sale.

I think it would be a good idea to open the concept up too
davidr
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davidr replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 9:43 PM

Millemissen:

Now where do you see the (big) difference/s in the C7 and the C8 panel of the LG part - and a real need for an exchange?

Not to pick on you, but the thing is LG like most mass consumer TVs, only produces a model for a year or less then it's gone. B&O (I would hope) has a warehouse full of C7 sets for replacements and sales. Once that inventory is gone I hope they have a plan to account for that because LG is not going to make another batch of C7.

No there's not a big difference between a C7 or C8 agreed.

B&O simply retrofitted a C7, we know this, and the future of this product looks sketchy.

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DMacri replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 9:47 PM
Aussie Michael:

I think it would be a good idea to open the concept up too

Yes - thumbs up

A Soundcenter with no or minimal video processing (I’d like to see electronic curtains) HDMI CEC and ARC for in-tv sources, PUC, WiSA, and you supply the video monitor of your preference. LED, QLED, OLED, it almost doesn’t matter.

Dom

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Aussie Michael:
Peter Pan:

 

@ Millemissen

 

I'll try again B&O should have made their Soundcenter so that it could be adapted to many TV models. It had taken a little longer time, and given a bigger sale.

 

 

I think it would be a good idea to open the concept up too

 

Easier said than done....if you want something that you can handle fluent.

MM

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Peter Pan
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Peter Pan replied on Fri, Apr 5 2019 10:22 PM

My wife knows what I need.  One LG scroll-tv to approx. 55.000 Euro.  Stick out tongue

 

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Millemissen
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+1

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Peter Pan
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You have to look forward.
The world does not stand still, although B&O does not come with more tv.

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sat, Apr 6 2019 11:46 AM

Millemissen:
Easier said than done....if you want something that you can handle fluent.

Not really,- it has been done successfully since 2003, even earlier if you include the AV7000,-1993.

The beauty is you chose the display and you can mix and match the speakers to meet your specific needs. Best of all ONE remote!

However, if you insist on letting the display being a hub for everything, not only does it become unnecessary difficult (remembering the photos of your AVANT install) it also means you lose the whole B&O feel created by the elegant Beofont menus, the curtains or Vision Clear. The Beosystem allowed any display to be part of a Beoexperience in every way, as opposed to the Eclipse which in most ways simply showcases LG.

The Beosystem 5 is long overdue... and might be the only thing that can turn the declining sales around.

 

Millemissen
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BEOVOX141:

Millemissen:
Easier said than done....if you want something that you can handle fluent.

Not really,-

However, if you insist on letting the display being a hub for everything, 

The Beosystem 5 is long overdue... and might be the only thing that can turn the declining sales around.

Not really’: Do you really think they are dumb, these guys in Struer - it seems that you do.

Why make a rather complicated cooperation with LG, if it could be much easier - don’t you think that rhey have thought through these options?

 

This ‘However’ is the crux of the problem - a construction like you wish for will not happen, because only a/too few people would buy into it.

People in general want one device for everything, not two or even more.

 

That said, personally I would be alright with ‘your BeoSystem 5’ - but that is not the point here!!!

This is about what will live up to the Struer standarts of a coherent solution, from a technical and design point of view.........and what will sell.

We obviously disagree there - maybe we will see later (this year), who is right 😉

 

Remember - B&O is a lifestyle company, not a brand that provides solutions for nerds (like us).

 

MM

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Sandyb replied on Sat, Apr 6 2019 12:26 PM

Agreed completely.

A stand alone BS5 box is not going to happen - its simply against the grain of what most customers want.

However you want to define the scope of a BS5 (audio not video processing, source switching, NL integration) will either be built in to a BV or a sound centre like the Eclipse, which may well be sold separately.

 

BEOVOX141
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Consider this Sandy.

And thus my nostalgic picture,- Beosystems were part of every recent BV until and including the AVANT 55. BS2 is an AVANT CRT without the CRT, BS3 a BV7 without the LCD etc.... It was a modular approach created out of necessity and way of utilizing limited RD recourses. All the BS did exactly what you ask They provided the source switching, menu overlay, analogue or digital tuners, and the rest of the B&O stuff, nothing else! The BV 7-55 as an example is still a complete (detachable!) Samsung Video engine, with a Beosystem3 piggy bagged, the parts are completely identical!  And the same goes for most BVs from this century, you just don't realize (or appreciate) it until you take a close look under the hood, or when you realize something is missing as in the case of the hybrids like Horizon or Eclipse. And repeating myself: Detach the BS4 from the AVANT, update date HDMI interface, and there is your Beosystem 5 complete with all the classic B&O virtues, and to be honest a few frustrating issues...  Whistle

If B&O is incapable of delivering a very rudimentary piece of AV equipment like outlined above, there is really no justification in continuing.

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Sandyb replied on Sat, Apr 6 2019 1:39 PM

BEOVOX141:

Consider this Sandy.

And thus my nostalgic picture,- Beosystems were part of every recent BV until and including the AVANT 55. BS2 is an AVANT CRT without the CRT, BS3 a BV7 without the LCD etc.... It was a modular approach created out of necessity and way of utilizing limited RD recourses. All the BS did exactly what you ask They provided the source switching, menu overlay, analogue or digital tuners, and the rest of the B&O stuff, nothing else! The BV 7-55 as an example is still a complete (detachable!) Samsung Video engine, with a Beosystem3 piggy bagged, the parts are completely identical!  And the same goes for most BVs from this century, you just don't realize (or appreciate) it until you take a close look under the hood, or when you realize something is missing as in the case of the hybrids like Horizon or Eclipse. And repeating myself: Detach the BS4 from the AVANT, update date HDMI interface, and there is your Beosystem 5 complete with all the classic B&O virtues, and to be honest a few frustrating issues...  Whistle

If B&O is incapable of delivering a very rudimentary piece of AV equipment like outlined above, there is really no justification in continuing.

I don't disagree, they just are very unlikely to bring out a separate box solution.

Separate boxes just for the purposes described above, are just not a la mode these days.

 

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