ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
As a normal used needle has an average lifetime of about 1000 hours, before showing wear, a proper cleaning of the records will extend the life of the diamond/needle. Correct tracking force and correct adjusted anti skating will also help. Normal users are not able to adjust anti skating, this is only possible with the help of a test record and oscilloscope. Also important is the parallel adjustment of the cantilever to the record, the needle must enter the groove at an exact 90° angle.
If I have an estimated time of playing of 3 hours a week, my average, that is 150 hours a year, this will give me a needle lifetime of 7 years. Very clean records, deck properly adjusted, I suppose will add 50% to the lifetime, and I get 10 years.
IMO a tangential tracking deck will also help, as I believe the tangential decks are "easier" on records/needle. I have no proof of this, just my opinion.
Most of us use more than one deck, I divide my playing between 2 decks, so now I have a lifetime of 20 years on each needle.
In 20 years I will be deaf or dead, so Axel and Soundsmith, hold your horses, not much business from me.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
I really must take the time and read the entire article you provided.
That diamond styluses wear really is not in debate, and I would be (and will be shortly) in a position to intelligently comment on this after I have actually ready this piece.
However household dust is usually organic, dead skin cells being the most common source of dust. I have pet parrots which really add to the mixture, but again it is organic.
With the windows closed I don’t see much to add to the mix with the notable exception of cooking. Here is where I expect to find what the article is talking about.
In any case my turntables are 4000 and 8000 series which track lightly and accurately and as mentioned here with no small amount of pride and pleasure, my BEST cartridge dates from 1974 and is 39 years old.
True it spent many years in storage, but after really thinking about it, this stylus must have 17 years of regular use.
I have looked at it with my 30X jeweller’s loupe and it looks pristine. However that is not a look with a microscope. That said it sounds FANTASTIC and that is not an exaggeration.
I look forward to reading what you sent, but in the mean time I do feel that these cartridges when cared for, last a very long time.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Piaf: However household dust is usually organic, dead skin cells being the most common source of dust. I have pet parrots which really add to the mixture, but again it is organic. With the windows closed I don’t see much to add to the mix with the notable exception of cooking. Here is where I expect to find what the article is talking about.
The silica / quartz dust (read: sand) comes in embedded in your clothes. If household dust was "soft", we wouldn't have to worry about introducing swirl marks when dusting...
--mika
soundproof:Wouldn't be much of a business model if your customers were convinced that the diamond could never wear down.
It's actually very hard to see even pretty severe stylus wear with a loop or even a normal microscope, you're looking at a very small surface that's very curved. Wear that's invisible this way shows up clearly with a stereo microscope, depth perception really makes a huge difference. I've had stylii that looked fine on my traditional lab microscope show up as badly worn on a Shure stereoscopic microscope of lower power. The local McIntosh dealer had such a scope back in the day, we were competing shops, but the best of buddies regardless of that, hifi nerds all.
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
mexking:As a normal used needle has an average lifetime of about 1000 hours, before showing wear, a proper cleaning of the records will extend the life of the diamond/needle.
Severian:It's actually very hard to see even pretty severe stylus wear with a loop or even a normal microscope, you're looking at a very small surface that's very curved. Wear that's invisible this way shows up clearly with a stereo microscope, depth perception really makes a huge difference
I am quite interested in the Zerodust product, I find it quite tedious to clean my MMC20EN which was retipped as it has no stylus guard and a long cantilever. Does anyone who has a Beogram 400x series table confirm if it will fit under the arm? the arm on the BG4002 sits quite low and the product looks pretty tall.
Drew
Magic Eraser pickup cleaner here
I have continued doing some research on visually inspecting the stylus. I found a nice thread where a gentlemen describes a project where he built an appropriate microscope system for examining phonograph stylus. The thread is on another audio site so I won't post the link here. However, an interesting piece of information is what led to the building of the microscope. In the heyday of vinyl, Shure was of course a well known phonograph cartridge company. Shure produced some test equipment for audio shops to test and examine cartridges. One piece was the PEK analyzer which could measure performance of a phonograph cartridge while it was connected to a phonograph player and playing a test record (also supplied by Shure). The other piece was a microscope called SEK that was built for Shure by some optical company and configured specially for examining the stylus for wear. The important part about the microscope was that in had to have good lighting from the sides and above the stylus, the platform had to be able to adjust in small increments and the magnification needed to be capable of 200X in order to detect wear. So a cartridge was lined up at a lower magnification to get it centered in the view finder. Then the magnification was increased to 200X to view wear spots. The wear spots show up as bright areas from the illumination lamps. The inspection of the stylus tip also has to be straight on from the top. I did find a link to a PDF user manual for the Shure SEK-2. It is interesting to read. It describes the measurement process, includes some pictures of worn stylus tips and some information on stylus care (which is the topic of this thread). This manual was prior to the invention of Magic Eraser (which is my preferred cleaning method). But it does have good information in it.
-sonavor
mexking: Magic Eraser pickup cleaner here
I can’t believe it happened again!
I am currently having issues with my unloved S120.2 speakers in that they need re-foaming. However while examining them carefully I noticed that the right speaker had NO woofer response of any kind and the treble was barely audible.
That starting me thinking, well your problems with these speakers are worse than just re-foaming. So I checked both ends of the speaker connectors…. Not the problem.
Then I changed sources but everyone was talking away on the FM so that didn’t help and the 8-Track player is of such dubious quality that I couldn’t really see (hear) what I needed.
I tried the balance control and I seemed to have almost no right channel and it hit me, OMG the receiver has blown its right channel. Now I really was upset.
However even with my memory heavily cloaked with senility, this whole scenario seemed just too darn familiar.
So I took out Bang & Olufsen's magnificent record cleaner, the MMC 6000 from my Beogram 8000 and sure enough it had a bouquet of garbage surrounding the stylus.
Once cleaned the speakers work just fine, the receiver is fine….. and I feel like an idiot. Now in my own (sort of) defense the first time the sound quality was terrible in both speakers. This was different in that the left channel was normal, but the right channel had NO bass whatsoever and just the slightest treble….. I literally had to put my ear to the tweeter to hear anything.
I doubt anyone else will have this sort of scenario; however I, for one, have learned before I go into full panic again over this particular system to remember to check the 6000 cartridge first before anything else and save myself a whole lot of unnecessary trouble.
I clean the stylus after each record, and inspect them using this.
soundproof: I clean the stylus after each record, and inspect them using this.
Most impressive to be sure.
However isn’t there a very real danger in removing the cartridges more than absolutely necessary? I have read that both the arm receptor and the MMC cartridges themselves are fragile.
As such I try my best NOT to remove them more than necessary.
I use my Beograms on a consistent daily basis, thus removing the cartridge two or three times a day would, in my opinion be asking for trouble….. and with five Beograms an awful lot of work. I think I’d have to have OCD to enjoy that!
Piaf: soundproof: I clean the stylus after each record, and inspect them using this. Most impressive to be sure. However isn’t there a very real danger in removing the cartridges more than absolutely necessary? I have read that both the arm receptor and the MMC cartridges themselves are fragile. As such I try my best NOT to remove them more than necessary. I use my Beograms on a consistent daily basis, thus removing the cartridge two or three times a day would, in my opinion be asking for trouble….. and with five Beograms an awful lot of work. I think I’d have to have OCD to enjoy that! Jeff
If you haven't tried it yet you will be amazed at what can be done by adding a cheap magnetic / self adhesive close-up lens to a mobile phone camera or iPad. Either view on screen or take a picture.
Graham
Great thread you started :-) I've had decks and used my MMC20CL and MMC1 with them. Then was forced to go back to 'normal' quality stylus because just could not get used to all the extra 'stuff' that the top quality stylus brings out. Better detail of course but more clicks, pops, hiss (from the original tape masters) than I could cope with. LPs WILL just always have all of the above so I vote to stick to the middle of the road approach and sit further back ;-)
Just found this old bookmark, it might be interesting:
http://www.micrographia.com/projec/projapps/viny/viny0000.htm
Thanks, all my LPs are pristine and do sound very good except for the ones that were pressed slightly off centre, as used to happen sometimes. And when you took them back to the shop and they played them and said, "what's your problem...?" mainly because there were no scratches etc and the old dear in the shop couldn't hear any 'wow' it used to annoy me endlessly :-( So I do look after my LPs and CDs but the CDs are much easier to rip to MP3s, which is what we all listen to these days anyway, isn't it ? :-) Rgds