ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
mibook84:Hi Vlohjr1 :) Ah, nice to hear. So you say you did prefer the picture of the avant over the 11? If so thats nice to hear!
Rob.B: at around $12,500 AUD its a well priced TV. Not sure if that includes any stand. Cant wait to see one in the flesh.
at around $12,500 AUD its a well priced TV. Not sure if that includes any stand.
Cant wait to see one in the flesh.
Hi Rob,
I rang a dealer today, The 12.5 inc the remote and the floor stand. Landing late May here.
It probably looks slightly soft as it's up scaling a 1080p source .
Unless you're viewing a native 4k source what exactly is the point of a 4k tv ?
The PQ of other 4K TV's I've seen is superior to FHD 1080p TVs so i think thats what the point is.
Probably the same as the increased pixel count on other displays such as "retina" displays
Michael: Probably the same as the increased pixel count on other displays such as "retina" displays
It doesn't work like that when you have a low-pixel source. When you upscale, the pixels are effectively bigger, thus more obvious. It's like upscaling a low-resolution photo, from a website, on a retina panel - it looks blocky.
With retina, you go the other way. You take a huge image and scale it down to fit the panel, which is why images look so crisp and clear. Retina isn't about upscaling.
That's why SD looks poor on a 1080p panel and will look even worse on an upscaled 4K. I had a quick look at BBC1 (channel 1 on Freeview) on the Avant and it was very pixelated. Regular HD was better, but not quite as crisp as on my non-4K BV11 panel. Basically, Blu-ray (1080P full HD) and 4K is where the Avant will excel. It's a TV for the near future.
Seeing this new TV I must say that it, to me, lacks the artistic 'touch' of the Beovision 10 and 11, or even the 7. The speaker unit that drops down underneath spoils the clean looks.
Anyway, it being a 4K TV, where can you actually view 4K content? Not where I'm living. (Holland)
So what use is that?
Michael
The visual shop difference between the BV and Avant is down to this additional software that is managing the colour temperature.
The potentially perceived better picture coming from the BV11 is akin to the trick that Samsung plays with its TV's in showrooms where they are often all set to dynamic mode. The saturation is much higher and sharpness is increased. Its a trick of the eye. Its just like the Pepsi taste test, you like it initially because its sweeter, then you soon realise Coke tastes nicer after all. Our senses always initially attract to the more vivid.
The Avant - through software - is now able to feature the more natural tones that have often been the benefit of Plasma. If you want the Avant to be set to the same settings as the BV11 you can simply switch off this software feature whilst you are in the showroom and then make an apples with apples comparison.
I know that beyond the 5 minute test I'd rather live with the new software. My Avant arrives on the 24th May - YEEEAAAHHH!
You lucky b....d!
Enjoy!
As much as I was impressed with the feature set but the new remote and the new look is completely dismal.
mibook84:Too bad to hear about the reflections. I guess it is hard to avoid them, especially during day. The BV avant has a new sensor system that the BV11 lacks,
wonderfulelectric: As much as I was impressed with the feature set but the new remote and the new look is completely dismal.
I assume you're talking about the new look of the remote vs the TV. I think the new remote is great. How many people on this forum have mentioned that they don't much care for the 5/6 remote but love the 'readiness' of the 4. I love the "my buttons" and i think its easier to just press the button that you're after.
The new look of the TV is good. Although it is not that dissimilar to many TVs, in particular Loewe; but I'm so glad it's not like that original Avant with that triangle speaker (so heavy).
I'm quite sure I will purchase the Avant, and that's the message i believe that B&O have been looking for.
elephant: Chris Townsend:Who's watching the Eurovision with me? Swicthed on. Israel came on. Nice intro for the flag. But big thighs ... could work at NCL kickstarting jumbos. Next some guy came on ... and the drivel about what a hunk he was but see how sensitive he is working with wood in his workshop drove me to ... Switch off !!!
Chris Townsend:Who's watching the Eurovision with me?
Swicthed on.
Israel came on.
Nice intro for the flag.
But big thighs ... could work at NCL kickstarting jumbos.
Next some guy came on ... and the drivel about what a hunk he was but see how sensitive he is working with wood in his workshop drove me to ...
Switch off !!!
Israel came on??????????
Does it take four years for Eurovision to reach Australia?
Graham
vikinger: Israel came on?????????? Does it take four years for Eurovision to reach Australia?
At least
BeoNut since '75
I must admit to being a bit disappointed that there was no sculptural integrity to the TV and the back of the new Avant when on the floor stand was nothing special. The beauty of the Beo 4 for example was that it's basically a cylindrical solid that's been machined.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Two questions:
1) re that "cheaper" wall mount: is that just same as the motorized one, except one has to do the turning/movement of the TV manually or is it a completely fixed mount, and the TV will always be "fixed" parallel to the wall.
20 anyone has seen a compete pricelist, i.e. updated 2014 pricelist including the new stuff; be it in pounds or euro's (or DK's for that matter); Is it on-line somewhere ??
Rene
1: I don't know - but probably stbbrackets will work out something too.
2: Here
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
So I wonder how the picture will compare between the Avant and the 11? Hope some independent reviews come out soon. It seems some think the Avant is more plasma looking in appearance but that wasn't the experience I had. Mind you, it was probably on the default picture settings and I didn't have the opportunity to switch between modes. The 11 looked so sharp playing a Harry Potter Blu-ray, amazing. With the same disc playing on the Avant, and the same scenes, I thought the skin tones looked lighter, softer and more blurred. Certainly not as sharp as the 11. My eyes were more drawn to the 11, but some would say this was my eyes playing tricks on me. Any further thoughts?
The majority of my tv viewing is older programmes such as X Files, Star Treks, 70s, 80s and 90s comedies like Friends for example and the odd new release film in Blu-ray or standard, I am not that fussed. I also love my nature programmes and documentaries. Not really fussed about 4k since its still in its infancy. Do you suppose this means an 11 is more suited? I like the design of both.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
vikinguk:Israel came on??????????Does it take four years for Eurovision to reach Australia?Graham
moxxey: It doesn't work like that when you have a low-pixel source. When you upscale, the pixels are effectively bigger, thus more obvious. It's like upscaling a low-resolution photo, from a website, on a retina panel - it looks blocky. With retina, you go the other way. You take a huge image and scale it down to fit the panel, which is why images look so crisp and clear. Retina isn't about upscaling. That's why SD looks poor on a 1080p panel and will look even worse on an upscaled 4K. I had a quick look at BBC1 (channel 1 on Freeview) on the Avant and it was very pixelated. Regular HD was better, but not quite as crisp as on my non-4K BV11 panel. Basically, Blu-ray (1080P full HD) and 4K is where the Avant will excel. It's a TV for the near future.
I don't believe it´s only upscaling but also a lot of video processing with interpolation and smart algorithms that introduces more pixels (not just doubling them) by analysing light, color and content. I don't think SD content look poor on a 1080p panel if it is made in a good way instead of just pixel doubling. If it would just be doubling it would look like this:But it probably looks more like this:
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
mawheele: Michael The visual shop difference between the BV and Avant is down to this additional software that is managing the colour temperature. The potentially perceived better picture coming from the BV11 is akin to the trick that Samsung plays with its TV's in showrooms where they are often all set to dynamic mode. The saturation is much higher and sharpness is increased. Its a trick of the eye. Its just like the Pepsi taste test, you like it initially because its sweeter, then you soon realise Coke tastes nicer after all. Our senses always initially attract to the more vivid. The Avant - through software - is now able to feature the more natural tones that have often been the benefit of Plasma. If you want the Avant to be set to the same settings as the BV11 you can simply switch off this software feature whilst you are in the showroom and then make an apples with apples comparison. I know that beyond the 5 minute test I'd rather live with the new software. My Avant arrives on the 24th May - YEEEAAAHHH!
Not sure you are responding to this Michael or the other Michael here :). But yes I also have an Avant on the way and it is scheduled for delivery on the 19/20th but I don't know really. This is a nice way to buy a TV! )
How about jpg? If I downsize the photo’s from my camera to a 4K resolution, how do I get it in that resolution to the TV? USB/DNLA, or is it only possible via the hdmi-port?
DoubleU: How about jpg? If I downsize the photo’s from my camera to a 4K resolution, how do I get it in that resolution to the TV? USB/DNLA, or is it only possible via the hdmi-port?
In the manual it says it can't show UHD pictures. But I am not sure what they mean by this since most pictures are really large today. Perhaps they can change this in the future.
Michael: I don't believe it´s only upscaling but also a lot of video processing with interpolation and smart algorithms that introduces more pixels (not just doubling them) by analysing light, color and content. I don't think SD content look poor on a 1080p panel if it is made in a good way instead of just pixel doubling.
I don't believe it´s only upscaling but also a lot of video processing with interpolation and smart algorithms that introduces more pixels (not just doubling them) by analysing light, color and content. I don't think SD content look poor on a 1080p panel if it is made in a good way instead of just pixel doubling.
SD content looks poor on my BV11, even worse on a 4K panel. SD is made up of only 576 lines, where the Avant 4K panel has 2160 lines. SD has to be upscaled by nearly 4x the pixels on the 4K panel. Any upscaling will magnify the flaws and deficiencies in the SD content.
You don't buy a 4K TV to watch old SD content from the 80s, put it that way.
mibook84:In the manual it says it can't show UHD pictures. But I am not sure what they mean by this since most pictures are really large today. Perhaps they can change this in the future.
Buy a UHD player, connect that to the (recommended) HDMI1 port, and put the pictures in there.
Ask your dealer which one they use for demoing the 4K content - that one can even be controlled via PUC.
Millemissen:Buy a UHD player, connect that to the (recommended) HDMI1 port, and put the pictures in there. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
moxxey: Michael: Probably the same as the increased pixel count on other displays such as "retina" displays It doesn't work like that when you have a low-pixel source. When you upscale, the pixels are effectively bigger, thus more obvious. It's like upscaling a low-resolution photo, from a website, on a retina panel - it looks blocky. With retina, you go the other way. You take a huge image and scale it down to fit the panel, which is why images look so crisp and clear. Retina isn't about upscaling. That's why SD looks poor on a 1080p panel and will look even worse on an upscaled 4K. I had a quick look at BBC1 (channel 1 on Freeview) on the Avant and it was very pixelated. Regular HD was better, but not quite as crisp as on my non-4K BV11 panel. Basically, Blu-ray (1080P full HD) and 4K is where the Avant will excel. It's a TV for the near future.
"Retina" isn't a technology, it's a term invented by Apple in an attempt to describe an lcd with a pixel density beyond the ability of the naked eye (at an assumed viewing distance), as such it will be equally poor at showing low resolution images.
On the other hand, although upscaling can't recover information that was missing from the original image, it can certainly do better than just increasing the pixel area by 4 to leave solid "slabs of colour". DSP algorithms will use the rate of change of colour and and luminance etc between pixels to interpolate between the data points it actually knows and fill in the extra pixels. While this can never be the same as a full HD picture, some TV's (and technologies) have been better at producing "acceptable" large screen images on HDTV's from SD source material than others.
Ban boring signatures!
Millemissen: Buy a UHD player, connect that to the (recommended) HDMI1 port, and put the pictures in there.
No doubt that will work!! The question here really was if that’s the only way.
For example, if I put a jpg, with a resolution of 4000 x 3000 pixels on a USB. Stick it in a full HDTV, the tv will downscale it to its native resolution, about 1K. Right? So how will a 4K TV handle these files via USB? Will it be downscaled to 4K?
Raeuber: Do you know why manual says HDMI 1 port is recommended for 4K sources and the specs say HDMI 1-5 is 4K capable? Very annoying for me... Greets Räuber
Do you know why manual says HDMI 1 port is recommended for 4K sources and the specs say HDMI 1-5 is 4K capable? Very annoying for me...
Greets
Räuber
How I understand it is, that all ports (in the main panel of the Avant) are 1.4 ports.
They can easily be updated to 2.0 via a SW-update - the (BSys4)engine is powerfull enough for this.
Some of the first 'so-called' 4K-tv's on the market could not/can not be updated, simply because the hardware does not allow it.
(See this: http://hdguru.com/hdmi-2-0-what-you-need-to-know/)
You can show 4K content with the lower framerates through a HDMI1.4 connection (which will work for movie content and pictures).
The HEVC decoder can be added via SW update as well.
But since there is no content (via internal sources) avaible as of today, there is no need for this right now.
Why install and pay licences for something that is not used (at the moment)?
The UHD player (which is used for the demoing) can decode the stuff itself and throw it at the Avant through the HDMI1 port.
If and why the HDMI1 (today) is different from the others, I don't know (??)
This document is usefull, when you want to know more about HDMI standarts and xK:
http://www.worldbroadcastingunions.org/wbuarea/library/docs/isog/presentations/2012B/2.3%20Chabrol%20Eutelsat.pdf
BeoGreg:Still not sure what to think about the new remote either. List is on the top right and I use it every day (ie. list + stand or list + p. mute), more convenient on beo4. Light as to be added on one of the three free buttons. But how do you know it's the light button ? We use light control every day. Will I have to do a family meeting to explain my three kids and wife : don't forget, "light" is the one in the middle...
List is on the top right and I use it every day (ie. list + stand or list + p. mute), more convenient on beo4.
Light as to be added on one of the three free buttons. But how do you know it's the light button ? We use light control every day. Will I have to do a family meeting to explain my three kids and wife : don't forget, "light" is the one in the middle...
1: I agree with that - but I guess I (too) will learn to manage/hold the BR One in a different way, than I am used to with the Beo4.
You will have to interact a lot more with it/with the display that with the Beo4.
2: probably your kids (and the wife) will learn that faster than you
So basically anything ever recorded in SD is a no no on this 4k tv ?
That certainly rules out a LOT of stuff.
Whereas its' excellent with the massive amount of UHD material available - ie ; zero
I'm not trying to be negative , just realistic
I honestly cannot see the point of 4k.
SD was yesterday!
Millemissen:SD was yesterday! MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Flappo: So basically anything ever recorded in SD is a no no on this 4k tv ? That certainly rules out a LOT of stuff.
Not really. It all depends on how well the upscaling has been implemented. It's computer science, not just simplistically tiling ever smaller pixels next to each other. For example my Sony W8 does a very good job displaying SD channels (obviously do not watch too close) while I've seen some BV7s (no idea which mark, possibly quite dated) that looked truly awful in the same job.
Flappo:I honestly cannot see the point of 4k.
Many people didn't see the point of HD just a few years ago. Now you can go to YouTube and see the benefit immediately. It's not a disadvantage of the Avant that it already happens to be 4K!
The following isn't pointed at you Flappo, but I find this just tragic. Just a while ago when 4K was the hottest new buzzword, the forum was crying over that B&O will never get a 4K TV done. Now that it almost unexpectedly is here, that's not good either. The toughest crowd in the world...
--mika
Regarding the remote...
The Beoremote they had in the shop had the Light button as the first element in the List, so it's probably as convenient as having a Light button.
The TV and MUSIC buttons are also bringing a list of sources. The sources can be renamed, so you you can call "AppleTV" rather than "V.MEM". This is a great thing as today there are is a greater variety of sources.
Also today, the TV doesn't offer just music sources but also Music sources. The Music sources that are in the telly can be called from the Music button rather than a video source, and you can call them directly without having to navigate menus on the TV.
Because of the sources buttons, the commands in List are not polluted by additional source selection.
The screen now shows 3 rows and is luminous, so it makes it's easier to navigate as you know which one will come next.
They have added Info and Guide buttons which are common on 3rd party remotes, this will make it easier to use sources controlled by PUC.
The remote looks really nice, is very elegant and is a logical evolution of the Beo4. I love it, and I'll get one as soon as I can, but unfortunately they are not selling them on their own for now.
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
tournedos: The following isn't pointed at you Flappo, but I find this just tragic. Just a while ago when 4K was the hottest new buzzword, the forum was crying over that B&O will never get a 4K TV done. Now that it almost unexpectedly is here, that's not good either. The toughest crowd in the world... --mika
tournedos:Not really. It all depends on how well the upscaling has been implemented. It's computer science, not just simplistically tiling ever smaller pixels next to each other. For example my Sony W8 does a very good job displaying SD channels (obviously do not watch too close) while I've seen some BV7s (no idea which mark, possibly quite dated) that looked truly awful in the same job.
I quite agree on this! My current living room tv has never failed to impress me with its upscaling engine. A samsung ue55d8005. Really working wonders. And cheaper samsungs are horrible. I don't know how the picture will look on the Avant, I just hope it will look good and that they do good picture scaling and not just pixel doubling. B&O customers requires the best. Not just in sound but also in picture.
Raeuber:But also many forum users explained that there is no need for 4K in a Beovision because of its extraordinary picture quality without 4K. And now these people are so happy with 4K in a BV. Very strange though... Räuber
One thing I like about HiDPI screens is that pixels are so small that the gap between them can not be seen easily. This means that there is more light and less grid between the pixels. The result is a picture that looks very vivid and clean. Hard to explain but it feels more like looking at a photograph than a screen.