ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have the 17's and I like them a lot. They were close to US $5000 for me to buy though. The price you pay for a used pair of BeoLab 4000's generally run about $750, a little more or less depending on condition, and not long ago I bought a new pair of BeoLab 4000's on eBay for $1500. I don't think there is any way you could go wrong getting a used pair of BeoLab 4000's as they are very fine speakers! I think you can still buy a new pair of grills from BeoShop.co.uk if that is an issue.
yust go for BL4000
I deal with used B&O for 10 years and they are one of the best price performance spekers form B&O ever!!!
I just instal at my home new BL 12.3 and i'm not happy with soud. BL 4000 for 300 € were premium im my room + woofer for 200€ ...much better sound than new B&O for 5000€.
Agreed - the BL4000's are good, but don't compare old/aged speakers with new ones.
If I would have to choose between - theoretically - new 4000's and the BL17's, I would not hesitate to get the 17's.
However - as things are - you get a very good set of speakers with the 4000's.....often at a very good price.
Please beware of the older ones (MK1), because the foam inside may crumble and damage the speakers.
I've had mine checked and 'cleared' - and am still very pleased with them and the sound.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity to hear the BL4000 and BL17 side by side. But, I do feel the BL17 is an ugly duckling compared with the BL4000, which is still to me one of the most beautiful Beolabs ever made, right up there with the BL8000. Considering the price difference, and the looks, and the fact that the BL4000 is a good sounding speaker, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a pair. If you want more bass I think you'd be better off adding a 2nd hand BL11 to them than in putting in as much money as the BL17s cost. I've heard the BL17s and think they sound quite good, with, if I recall correctly, more punch than the BL4000s, but I think I'd still go for the BL4000s. Your opinions may vary of course!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
on the BL 4000...MK1 90% all faults is foam rotting.
when decomposed generates acid that corrodes the joints in electronics.
I repair at least 30 pairs with that fault.
but for 20% price of new BL17 you get really good used BL 4000 speaker will still operating many years and low cost of repair if necessary.
marexy:yust go for BL4000I deal with used B&O for 10 years and they are one of the best price performance spekers form B&O ever!!!I just instal at my home new BL 12.3 and i'm not happy with soud. BL 4000 for 300 € were premium im my room + woofer for 200€ ...much better sound than new B&O for 5000€.
MK1 don't have a switch for corner position, wall mount or free standing as the newer BL has. So they can sound a bit boomy if mounted in a corner or close to a wall. If you wan't MK1 you should get them on the floor stands for best sound. Plus, the flood stands looks excellent! Really adds a premium to the looks.
I have two pairs of MK1 4000, one in silver and one in gold and if you can find gold, get it. Absolutely stunning! Much nicer looking than the latest brass editions!
StKong: Some prefer ICE-power, some don't.
Some prefer ICE-power, some don't.
BL4000mk2 and the BL4 use the same ICE power amplifiers (slightly modified) and they regularly fail. They are not that reliable as the mk1's.
The Mk 2 use the amplifier from the Beolab 4 - slightly dodgy design in my view, not the same as the bigger speakers. I have two sets of Mk1 4000s - a blue set and a gold set - both brilliant and no problems with either. When I went round Struer, 4000s are in just about every room - clearly because they are cheaper but also because they can be put almost anywhere and sound good. Don't know what they have these days - Geoff?
Peter
Peter: The Mk 2 use the amplifier from the Beolab 4 - slightly dodgy design in my view, not the same as the bigger speakers. I have two sets of Mk1 4000s - a blue set and a gold set - both brilliant and no problems with either. When I went round Struer, 4000s are in just about every room - clearly because they are cheaper but also because they can be put almost anywhere and sound good. Don't know what they have these days - Geoff?
Interesting Peter, and one of the reasons it's good to have the forum here, I'd not heard about the problems with the BL4000 and IcePower amps. I know that, outside of reliability, a lot of the things I hear said against IcePower has more to do with the typical audiophile view of if it ain't a class AB old style amp, preferably with tubes, it has to be evil incarnate. But reliability is an important consideration. Given that, and the price, I'd go with MkI's personally, and if boomy adjust the bass.
I love them wherever I've seen them, on a shelf, on floor stands, mounted on the wall (stunning on each side of a BS9000 or such). I had a pair for evaluation briefly when I was deciding between them and the BL8000. They sounded amazing, but the 8000 had better bass and were better suited for my listing in the room I had, but it was a close thing as the 4000s sounded very good and would have been easier to sit on the mantle. Ultimately I decided to arrange the room differently and mantle mounting was not important. Stunningly good looking speaker though, after looking at small box speakers for decades, the graceful leaf shaped cabinet design just blew me away.
Someday I'll pick up a used pair.
jowus:Hi Jeff, the 17's were made out of the 4000's, so how can you say it's ugly? In Design wise, they just differentiate it a little bit. And they sound way better than the 4000's. I don't see it ugly at all. Maybe, the only thing ugly about it is the Price but not the Speaker itself.
Jeff:Interesting Peter, and one of the reasons it's good to have the forum here, I'd not heard about the problems with the BL4000 and IcePower amps. I know that, outside of reliability, a lot of the things I hear said against IcePower has more to do with the typical audiophile view of if it ain't a class AB old style amp, preferably with tubes, it has to be evil incarnate. But reliability is an important consideration. Given that, and the price, I'd go with MkI's personally, and if boomy adjust the bass. I love them wherever I've seen them, on a shelf, on floor stands, mounted on the wall (stunning on each side of a BS9000 or such).
How can I say it's ugly? Well, I didn't say ugly, I said the 4000s were better looking, to me. But how can I say it. It's easy. It's ugly! See how easy that was? Actually, I do think the 17s are unattractive, and don't find the materials they are made of as attractive as the 4000s. Sonically, I think they are better, but better than say a used pair of 4000s with a BL11? At a lower price? That would be superior in my opinion, your ears may differ of course.
I seem to have read about issues with the power switch on some of the MK 1 models. Was this the case? I know the MK 2 did away of the power switch and just have the status light. I will see if I can find those threads, but I do not have much luck with the search function.
I don't have a pair of Beolab 4000's, but I believe that the easiest way to inspect the foam is to unclip the speaker grill and remove the tweeter from the front by removing the two screws. If the foam is black, then it is probably original, as the replacement updated foam is white. Removing and changing the foam requires the speaker to be dismantled.
I don't know the percentage rate of foam failure, but the problem also applies to the Beolab 8000.
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
StKong: I am going to find one or two nice pairs in the Mk 1-iteration and hope the foam is in good condition. Any suggestions on how to make sure this is the case without taking the speakers apart?
I am going to find one or two nice pairs in the Mk 1-iteration and hope the foam is in good condition.
Any suggestions on how to make sure this is the case without taking the speakers apart?
You won't - unless you take the speaker apart....
....or wait untill it stops functioning.
Taken apart you will be able to see how far the 'rot-process' is - and might be able to rescue it/keep it sound by removing the foam.
If it already has stopped working, you mostly will have to replace all the electronics - which I would not call a cheap operation.
Michael:The design with the circle can be discussed
Yes, I think the circle looks terrible (but I like the rest of the design). It bothers me, because I think the BL17 is a really nice product apart from that. It's only the circle that I dislike, but I dislike it so much that I actually prefer ANY other Beolab to it when it comes to visuals. I have really tried to like it, but so far I have unfortunately failed.
jowus:Is like saying 2000 Mercedes Benz is better looking than the current.
jowus:Off course, material wise, they're going to be stronger than the current
jowus:but who wants to carry heavy stuff at the moment. My 2006 LCD TV weights heavily on the wall but that doesn't mean is better than the current Light weight TV. I still don't see 4000's better or nicer than 17's Period!
Michael:If you don't want a subwoofer go for BL17 or something else better for full range on its own. They are great at it and they also have wisa and toslink.
Michael:I think the bl4000 looks a bit dated but still beautiful. And very heavy(!).
Millemissen:You won't - unless you take the speaker apart........or wait untill it stops functioning.Taken apart you will be able to see how far the 'rot-process' is - and might be able to rescue it/keep it sound by removing the foam.
henrik:Yes, I think the circle looks terrible (but I like the rest of the design). It bothers me, because I think the BL17 is a really nice product apart from that. It's only the circle that I dislike, but I dislike it so much that I actually prefer ANY other Beolab to it when it comes to visuals. I have really tried to like it, but so far I have unfortunately failed.
StKong:If WISA is not necessary, what else would you recommend? BL3? Are they very heavy? Or do you think they look heavy?
Michael: But that was my two cents. Make your decision, you have all data you need :). BL3 is also nice though but the rubber texture editions have issues with material deterioration. I also want to point out that BL4000 is not a foam rot speaker.
With respect to foam rot, the usual "foam rot" was/is with older speakers that used foam instead of rubber for the speaker surround, that part that connects the edge of the cone to the metal or plastic ring of the speaker basket. The B&O 4000 uses rubber for that, in the past just about all speakers that used foam surrounds had problems, the foam would rot away leaving the edge of the woofer flapping in the breeze. This was due to a particular type of micro-organism that attacked the foam, in addition to ozone/oxygen in the air, etc.
The foam people are talking about with the 4000 is inside the speaker, its used to absorb reflected sound inside the speaker and such, and it can deteriorate and contaminate the electronic boards on the amplifiers and corrode the printed circuit boards.
Two different types/places for the foam! I know I'm tempting fate with my 1997 BL8000s but I've never had the foam replaced and they still work, knock on aluminum.
Thanks stevegee and Jeff. This forum is great.
Now that we seem to have exhausted the foam issue and I feel much wiser, the way forward is to find a dealer who will offer some sort of warranty. Here in Denmark several used pairs come with 12 months warranty.
Why not ask Lee? Everything I have bought from him has always been of the best quality - one of my pair of 4000s came from him.
sorry ...but i'm still on BL4000 side.
Just did repair in one pair with serial No 13.....and foam rot problem ...again..
and now play like new...and inside transformator is 30W or so ...not more ...and they play ..omg ..they play for these 30W .... :)
i did test side by side with my new BL 12.3 ...2500 €
you will not believe this old speaker can do so much for 200€ -online buy .
and bass driver is the same as in old CRT Avant 32 TV ( 20 years old ) ..and tweeter to.
i'm positive that new one's BL with wireless and ICE power amplifer will not last half so long without any service or firmware problems or so :(
marexy:sorry ...but i'm still on BL4000 side. Just did repair in one pair with serial No 13.....and foam rot problem ...again.. and now play like new...and inside transformator is 30W or so ...not more ...and they play ..omg ..they play for these 30W .... :) i did test side by side with my new BL 12.3 ...2500 € you will not believe this old speaker can do so much for 200€ -online buy . and bass driver is the same as in old CRT Avant 32 TV ( 20 years old ) ..and tweeter to. i'm positive that new one's BL with wireless and ICE power amplifer will not last half so long without any service or firmware problems or so :(
One of the things I think is good about getting a 2nd life pair of either the 4000s or the 8000s is that you get a very good sounding, iconic piece of B&O style by what was, in my opinion, the finest designer/stylist B&O has had, all for a pittance compared with the new gear. I will grant you that the new gear sounds marginally better, the 17 has better bass for example, but to my eyes none of the new gear is as attractive as the older gear.
If the old gear sounded awful, or significantly worse, that'd be one thing, but the improvements are incremental and the older gear already sounded very good. I'd prefer, for sonic and aesthetic reasons, a pair of 4000s and a BL11 over a pair of BL17s, and I think bass would be better and cost lower.
Opinions will vary of course, but I feel absolutely no desire to swap my BL8000s or my BL9s for 18s or 20s.
And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does!
Peter:And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does!Peter
StKong: Peter: And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does! Peter Has quality really gone markedly down in later years to an extent where durability is an issue and should be considered when investing in newer models?
Peter: And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does! Peter
Has quality really gone markedly down in later years to an extent where durability is an issue and should be considered when investing in newer models?
I think it is justify in your mind that you don't have to spend more for new components! It will take about 10 years to see failures of the BeoLab 17's while BeoLab 4000's are still generally going strong, and I don't think we will see that.