ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Chris Townsend:Local dimming it is then :-)
The BV11 and Avant have 'local dimming' Chris. The BV7-55's is just more powerful/zoned. Thus much more expensive.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
moxxey:The BV11 and Avant have 'local dimming' Chris. The BV7-55's is just more powerful/zoned. Thus much more expensive.
The 11 had adaptive contrast, but it does say 1.5 local dimming on the B&O website, whatever 1.5 is.
A description of the different varieties of dimming/contrast....
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/led-local-dimming-explained/
Is the 7-55 still being produced? My dealer says the whole of the 7 range has been discontinued
moxxey: Chris Townsend:Local dimming it is then :-) The BV11 and Avant have 'local dimming' Chris. The BV7-55's is just more powerful/zoned. Thus much more expensive.
Agree with you Moxxey. So from what i understand that irrespective of a light source (self emitting diodes or whether its from the back, side or whatever), a local dimming will just illuminate what's required.
...and what does the wife answer?
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
About local dimming, dark scenes, shadow detail, black level and contrast:
If I recall correctly, the BV7-55 Mk II has a "full array" local dimming consisting of individually dimmable backlight leds behind the screen. This makes dark scenes and especially pictures that are partially black very impressive, as the backlight leds can be dimmed or turned completely off when there's black on the screen.
The only downside to this technology is that if there's a black area in the picture and it has for example a bright little spot in it, some backlight leds in that area need to be on, which can lead to haloing of objects on a black background. The local dimming does not work pixel per pixel: for each dimmable led there are lots of pixels to cover. In earlier poorer implementations there were as few as 128 or 256 dimmable backlight zones, which accentuated the haloing.
In Edge Led televisions, the backlight leds are not behind the picture: the led strips are on two sides of the panel (sometimes on all four sides). 1.5D local dimming means that leds in the strips can be dimmed individually on two sides of the screen. This is not as efficient as the precise full array local dimming in BV7-55 MkII, but it still can reduce the amount of backlight in dark or black parts of the picture.
The contrast, shadow detail & black level of BV11 have been applauded in tests. I'm sure the same will be said of the new Avant. Interestingly, if you look at the specs for luminance and contrast ratio for both Avant and BV11, they're identical. Avant will probably yield better real-life results, due to its newer panel & greater pixel density. The upcoming tests will tell.
What baffles me are the complaints about dark scenes on BV11. In the time I've had BV11, I've yet to see the "fluctuation" of the backlight or poor dark scenes. On the contrary, dark scenes are detailed and the contrast level is impressive, in both day and night time viewing.
For anyone experiencing problems, I wonder what your settings are? I have Room Adaption On, Contrast at its default value (32), Contrast Enhancement set to its minimum value (0), and Power Saving for picture Off (power saving has an effect on the backlight), and in Customer Service menu Backlight Dimming set to 3 (I believe this is the default value). I've yet to have any issues with dark scenes, in any viewing conditions.
I remember Chris having faulty audio in his BV11. To dread dark scenes on BV11, I can only wonder if there were more faults in his unit?
I haven't recently read about any new TVs with the kind of advanced local dimming the BV7-55 has. More on why so, and local dimming versions with their pros and cons, can be found here:
http://www.rtings.com/info/what-is-local-dimming
and here (a link to more details from Chris’ link in his earlier post):
http://www.cnet.com/news/led-lcd-backlights-explained/
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Millemissen: ...and what does the wife answer? MM "IS THAT IT"
"IS THAT IT"
@Chris
We know that you have made 'a good deal' when buying your 7-55.
But - if you would have had to pay the original price of that BV - would you still have spend that awfull lot of money on it today.
Is it really worth the price they had to sell it at, when it was still in the portfolio of B&O?
When issues like that get out of control, I find it best to go back to full factory spec and start over. Then, if the picture doesn't seem right, you can first look at your sources, then file for warranty support.
Millemissen:@Chris We know that you have made 'a good deal' when buying your 7-55. But - if you would have had to pay the original price of that BV - would you still have spend that awfull lot of money on it today. Is it really worth the price they had to sell it at, when it was still in the portfolio of B&O? MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
B&O customers have wives? I didn't think we could afford them
BeoGreg:BV11 picture speaking, I'm still not satisfied with the picture I have in a relatively dark room (relatively because I now have to watch tv with a light on). It´s like there is mist in the picture, very pale in the background. If I leave contrast enhanced on 32 it´s far too dark and on 0 it´s far too pale on the background. With room adaptation off the picture is too bright, on it´s too dark so I lowered contrast enhance to 20. During the day it´s ok I don't notice the pale effect. I also noticed it on the Avant I tested yesterday (backgroung paler than the rest in dark scenes). I prefered the more natural picture of BV10. Maybe it´s due to the 3D panels ?
BeoGreg:@KMA My tv is a WISA model from late december 2013 (MK III ?). The picture behaves exactly the same on all sources. I tried something new tonigh (with a bluray on PS3) and I liked it : adaptative mode instead of movie mode. I, for months, thought the picture was too blueish in adaptative mode and prefered the redish movie mode on all sources but find it good tonigh with a brighter picture and much less "pale effect on the background" on dark scenes. I will leave it like that from now before eventually a total reset. Thanks for the tip of taking pictures of the settings by the way. That was worrying me !
My tv is a WISA model from late december 2013 (MK III ?).
The picture behaves exactly the same on all sources.
I tried something new tonigh (with a bluray on PS3) and I liked it : adaptative mode instead of movie mode.
I, for months, thought the picture was too blueish in adaptative mode and prefered the redish movie mode on all sources but find it good tonigh with a brighter picture and much less "pale effect on the background" on dark scenes.
I will leave it like that from now before eventually a total reset.
Thanks for the tip of taking pictures of the settings by the way. That was worrying me !
Perhaps the newer models have a different panel, which might explain why there's a difference in dark scene handling? They should in any case be calibrated by B&O to be identical in performance, but maybe there is some change.
I use Movie mode only for blu-ray. All other sources are on Adaptive – which can indeed be too blueish and "cold". To remedy this, I've set the Color Temperature in Adaptive mode (in the expert picture settings per source) to 24 from the default value of 32. Lowering the Color Temperature adjusts the Adaptive picture towards what you see in Movie mode (adds a little redness / warmth to the picture). However, in Adaptive mode the Color Temperature setting of 24 (or even 20, you might want to experiment) is nowhere near as reddish as the Movie mode.
You might want to try this. It brings the picture somewhere in the "middle ground" between Adaptive (cold colors) and Movie (warm colors), and I find the picture more natural – not too cold but also without excessive redness.
lundmark:B&O customers have wives? I didn't think we could afford them
Beovision 11-55, BeoPlay V1 40, Beosound 9000, Beolab 8000's and 3 Beocom 5's...
A wife's place is in the kitchen
BeoGreg:Thanks again KMA. My wife is going crazy, I cannot start a movie without trying new settings !
I am a dissatisfied BV-11-55 customer. After close to 7 months usage, I have had it. Too many software bugs that have not been fixed. Now, with the latest software update HbbTV is not working properly any longer but the most annoying thing is, that the recording function will "forget" to record programmed TV shows. Example: out of 9 programmed shows only 7 were recorded. This is not due to overlapping records or so, I made sure of that.
I will ask my dealer to take the TV back and refund the money. I am not willing to have a 10,000 Euro device in my living room that, instead of giving me joy, is giving me constant anger.
I don't know how you put up with all the software bugs, for me they are unacceptable.
schatzoy:I am a dissatisfied BV-11-55 customer. After close to 7 months usage, I have had it. Too many software bugs that have not been fixed. Now, with the latest software update HbbTV is not working properly any longer but the most annoying thing is, that the recording function will "forget" to record programmed TV shows. Example: out of 9 programmed shows only 7 were recorded. This is not due to overlapping records or so, I made sure of that. I will ask my dealer to take the TV back and refund the money. I am not willing to have a 10,000 Euro device in my living room that, instead of giving me joy, is giving me constant anger. I don't know how you put up with all the software bugs, for me they are unacceptable.
Sorry to hear it. There are a lot of software issues. In fact, I don't like it that much, but it's still miles better than what you can get from anyone else. That's the sad state of the TV market, I guess. I don't use any of the TV's television features so I don't know how they work.
That said, I do also think that the BV11 have become better with each update. A very annoying bug that caused subtitles not to work unless the movie was skipped or FF/REW'd have finally been fixed. And the TV hasn't crashed on me yet with this recent update (although that was a rare occurrence before the update too).
bno seriously need to sort their sw out
hasn't this been an on going topic for YEARS ???
Yeah. Especially for the price. But think about it though: other than Apple, does anyone make software that doesn't suck? It seems hard.
After months of hesitation, I'm delighted by the adaptive mode, the only thing I changed in the picture settings (after changing a lot) is reduce the contrast enhance to 20 instead of 32.
When you test the picture modes you immediatly feel that movie mode is more natural, the skin is warmer in movie mode blueish in adaptive mode.
But, to my taste, the picture is darker in movie mode so you have to switch up a little backlight and contrast which create, in some situations, a pale picture.
I got used real quick to adaptive mode and the blue tint with slightly brighter picture great for me in a dark room.
I even lowered the small light of the room during tv use at night (light control on 6 instead of 5 - max beeing 1 low beeing 9) !
I'm also surprised by the excellent quality of the non HD source (we record tv shows non HD sometimes when HDD is full), I find it much better that the movie mode.
HD sources are for some : speechless.
schatzoy: I am a dissatisfied BV-11-55 customer. After close to 7 months usage, I have had it. Too many software bugs that have not been fixed. Now, with the latest software update HbbTV is not working properly any longer but the most annoying thing is, that the recording function will "forget" to record programmed TV shows. Example: out of 9 programmed shows only 7 were recorded. This is not due to overlapping records or so, I made sure of that. I will ask my dealer to take the TV back and refund the money. I am not willing to have a 10,000 Euro device in my living room that, instead of giving me joy, is giving me constant anger. I don't know how you put up with all the software bugs, for me they are unacceptable.
Follow-up on this story: had a lengthy discussion with my dealer. He's blaming the TV stations, who do not adhere to agreed international standards and so on.
Of course, he defended B&O and mentioned, that other TV makers face similar problems or worse. Naturally, he will not take back the TV and refund the money. He offered, I deliver him a list describing all the issues I have and he will take them up with B&O and inform me of the outcome.
So, I compiled a detailed list with 10 bugs, many of which can clearly be attributed to B&Os ignorance or incompetence. Since the list is in German, it does not make sense to publish here. Most of the problems run around EPG and the recording functionality. The epitome of ignorance in my view is the fact, that when you call up the EPG (green button) and then press the yellow button to pick another group, B&O have forgotten to apply the design changes. Not a deal breaker or important at all, but in my view it shows how little effort they put in the EPG functionality.
Beogreg - i also use adaptive mode for the vast majority of movies. The first few weeks I thought the colours were not so natural, but over time it loo better I found the movie mode unnatural. the exception are some movies from the 1950s and early 1960s with colour saturation (and some earlier films, such as the Red Shoes). But like you, I had to play with the settings under adaptive to get it right...
BV11-55, BS9000, BL1, BL19, Transmitter 1, Beo4, Beocom 6000, BeoTalk1 200, Sennheiser HD600, McIntosh MHA100
I've tried searching the forums but haven't found anything about this.
Does anybody know whether the BV11 has RGB Full or RGB Limited display output? Reason for asking is to know which setting I should use in my PS3 and PS4.
Found a possible bug in the latest BV11 sw:
When I (in the settings menus) select a loudspeaker group for a certain source, to be used as default, the TV crashes and shuts down.
This problem occur for several sources, e.g. Spotify and RADIO. When booting up again, the changes sometimes has gone through and in some cases not.
I have also a NL/ML converter connected, and changing speakergroup in those sources also causes a crash. At one crash the TV lost NL/ML Converter connection completely (the menu option to add it under SETUP/Product integration disappeared) and I had to cut the mains to the TV for a while.
When powered up again the NL/ML Converter was back again.
Anyone experienced this?
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Hiort: When I (in the settings menus) select a loudspeaker group for a certain source, to be used as default, the TV crashes and shuts down. This problem occur for several sources, e.g. Spotify and RADIO. When booting up again, the changes sometimes has gone through and in some cases not. I have also a NL/ML converter connected, and changing speakergroup in those sources also causes a crash. At one crash the TV lost NL/ML Converter connection completely (the menu option to add it under SETUP/Product integration disappeared) and I had to cut the mains to the TV for a while. When powered up again the NL/ML Converter was back again. Anyone experienced this?
Hi,
I'd like to try to reproduce this problem you're having on our BV11 here - but I need a little more information.
Are you manually selecting a Speaker Group that is already the default for the source? OR
Are you assigning a Speaker Group to be the default for a source?
Cheers
-geoff
Geoff Martin: Hi, I'd like to try to reproduce this problem you're having on our BV11 here - but I need a little more information. Are you manually selecting a Speaker Group that is already the default for the source? OR Are you assigning a Speaker Group to be the default for a source? Cheers -geoff
Hi Geoff!
I have two speaker groups that I have created. "TV" and "Music".
I´m going into the settings menus and trying to change from "TV" to "Music" to be default for e.g. source "Spotify".
Hilsen/Claes
Hiort: I have also a NL/ML converter connected, and changing speakergroup in those sources also causes a crash. At one crash the TV lost NL/ML Converter connection completely (the menu option to add it under SETUP/Product integration disappeared) and I had to cut the mains to the TV for a while. When powered up again the NL/ML Converter was back again.
Hi again,
I've learned that reason you lost the NL/ML converter is because the TV crashed twice in a short period of time. When this happens, the Converter is disabled intentionally to prevent cycling and getting stuck in a loop - so you can think of this as a safety feature - not a bug.
As to the reason your TV crashed in the first place: your description has been reported to the software team and they're looking into it. Thanks for clarifying the description of the problem - it will help them to try and duplicate it on their system.
Geoff Martin: Hi again, I've learned that reason you lost the NL/ML converter is because the TV crashed twice in a short period of time. When this happens, the Converter is disabled intentionally to prevent cycling and getting stuck in a loop - so you can think of this as a safety feature - not a bug. As to the reason your TV crashed in the first place: your description has been reported to the software team and they're looking into it. Thanks for clarifying the description of the problem - it will help them to try and duplicate it on their system. Cheers -geoff
Thanks Geoff, that makes sense regarding the NL/ML Converter.
I tried again this morning to change the default speaker group on various sources, to see if there where specific sources that triggered the crash. What I learned was that I now could change and there was no crashes. However, on some sources when I tried to save, I got a message saying that "the change could not be saved".
But when I was shutting down the TV and started it again I could see that the changes in fact had gone through.
Thanks for investigating. I have of course reported the same to my dealer.
Let me know if I can provide some more info.
Best regard
Claes
Hi guys. Do you know if there's a setting somewhere to prevent the BV11 from turning off the display when listening to Spotify? I'd like to keep it on and disable it on a manual basis with P.MUTE.
There is not - unfortunately!
Still hoping for a function that lets you choose, how you want it, in a future update.
I'm about to buy a BV11 46' or BV Avant 55' . I didn't make up my mind yet, I prefer the aesthetic of the BV11 but I'm afraid the picture will look a bit small and squeezed in with the heavy speaker underneath while on the other hand, the BV Avant offers a bigger picture but a less exclusive design plus I heard the sound is not as crisp as the BV11, if you have any inputs on that, it would be really appreciated!
From beofans who had experiences with both TVs, is there a significative improvement in terms of picture quality between a BV11 and the Avant (putting aside the 4k capabilities)?
Beside this, I have an important question though. I would like to install my set-top box and Bluray player inside a sideboard which is 6 meters from where the TV would sit (hanging on the wall). Do you know if there is IR transmitter cables ong enough? Do you think there will be any impact on the delay for the transmission (I don't want to wait 5 seconds everytime I want to change channels or command a separate item).
Thanks for your help
FREDPERT
BeoVision 11-46 full black - BeoRemote One
Hello fredpert - concerning the BR and STB being 6m away, as long as you buy a well constructed high speed HDMI cable (24 gauge) you should be fine. For the IR perhaps contact Steve from Sounds Heavenly and he may comment. I think the one I received with the BV11 was somewhat shorter.
I think overall I would choose the Avant over the 11-46. You would get a a larger screen, 4K and some other advances in sound. I have the 11-55 at home and the sound standalone is great, better than the Avant in my opinion. But the 11-46 is not as good as the 11-55. At the end you may end up attaching additional speakers, so the Avant sound may not be such an issue. In terms of picture quality of the Avant, others may offer better comments. The picture on the BV11 is not perfect (some clouding effect of white on black background, LED bleeding at the age at times), which may have been fixed on the Avant. As you mentioned, the design of the BV11 is much more interesting than the Avant. The BV11 really looks great a floor stand, but perhaps on a wall the Avant may be better.
Hope this helps...