ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
How else can I interpret a delay of almost two weeks in hearing from them online about my Beosound Stage which has been accepted warrants a full refund? I was told "As soon as our headquarters confirm the process, we will notify you and the return shipping label will be provided" That was on 3rd December and I have heard nothing since.
So what is going on at Headquarters? If anyone has any contact, please help. I have run out of patience.
I have the same problem with B&O.
My Beosound Moment is the 3rd time broken and since nearly 4 weeks my dealer send the unit to danmark. But no response if I will get the unit back before chrismas.
Hi, I have also a process against B&O regarding my Beolab 50. My dealer send a complain about 3 weeks ago and they dont respond.
So what is happening? I am soon about to return these speakers and make a 100% refund. I also want to warn other people from buying the Beolab 50 right now which is a "speakerlottery" if you get a 100% working speakers or not.
Best RegardsMartin
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Did you see this thread?
https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/38725.aspx
The post refers to the C9
Mine was a different LG model. But the issue is the incompatibility of the HDMI ARC connection.
Forester1:Did you see this thread? https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/38725.aspx The post refers to the C9 Mine was a different LG model. But the issue is the incompatibility of the HDMI ARC connection.
I managed to speak to someone today. They were very sympathetic and said they understood my frustration. The problem lies with their HQ. I ask myself why cannot they pick up a phone to a colleague and get it sorted immediately. How long does it take to generate an email which includes a return address and postage label? The guy said he would do what he could. Hours later I have still not heard a thing. It's pathetic.
I will keep posting about this wherever I can find B&O being talked about on the internet.
Do not buy from them online and expect follow up customer service to the standard you have a right to expect.
Just received the following message from a B&O representative on Twitter!
Hi Peter! Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay and any inconvenience this might have caused. I just saw that your email case was updated. Our service team manually submitted your return order just a few moments ago. Within the next 4-5 hours, you will receive an automated email with the shipping label and further instructions. Please make sure to check your spam folder too.
So Twitter does have a good side!
Fingers crossed.
At long last, I have received the information and labels that will now enable me to return the stage.
Now I will find out how long it takes for me to get the refund!
Thank to those who have taken an interest in this thread. The fact is, it should never have been necessary for me to start it.
beolion:I don’t think it is because of trouble you face delays. But they struggle. They had a terrible last quarter. Sales was down with more than 30%. The link is Danish. https://www.recordere.dk/2019/12/skulle-have-vaeret-fremgang-nu-nedjusterer-bo-markant/
But they struggle.
They had a terrible last quarter. Sales was down with more than 30%.
The link is Danish.
https://www.recordere.dk/2019/12/skulle-have-vaeret-fremgang-nu-nedjusterer-bo-markant/
Nothing that I hadn’t expected.
Did you expect miracles to happen?
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: https://www.recordere.dk/2019/12/skulle-have-vaeret-fremgang-nu-nedjusterer-bo-markant/ Nothing that I hadn’t expected. Did you expect miracles to happen?
You ought to work in PR :)
"The strategic direction is unchanged, but it is evident that a fundamental change of the sales and marketing efforts is required and that we need to create a culture in which we are closer to customers and partners," chief executive Kristian Tear said in a statement.
That seals the fate of B&O then.
Rather interestingly, I went with an associate to listen and potentially buy some BL20. Having found the Knightsbridge flagship store closed, went to Selfridges ' we did have those but they were recalled to Milton Keynes - not sure if we wil have them anytime soon.
Off to Harrods, Yes can demonstrate but they are on WISA and the one doesn't work properly, I will try to get it going if you can come back, but it will take a while- Could I interest you in the Horizon, it fully upgradeable- heard that one before from B&O.
terrible after sales,laissez faire customer sales and service. There is no way any company can survive like this-( or deserves to) even the stuff they do sell is ridden with software problems.
moxxey: Millemissen: https://www.recordere.dk/2019/12/skulle-have-vaeret-fremgang-nu-nedjusterer-bo-markant/ Nothing that I hadn’t expected. Did you expect miracles to happen? You ought to work in PR :)
....and I promote this link:
https://bo.eventcdn.net/20191218/
(If you have the time - 45 min - listen).
355f:"The strategic direction is unchanged, but it is evident that a fundamental change of the sales and marketing efforts is required and that we need to create a culture in which we are closer to customers and partners," chief executive Kristian Tear said in a statement. That seals the fate of B&O then. Rather interestingly, I went with an associate to listen and potentially buy some BL20. Having found the Knightsbridge flagship store closed, went to Selfridges ' we did have those but they were recalled to Milton Keynes - not sure if we wil have them anytime soon. Off to Harrods, Yes can demonstrate but they are on WISA and the one doesn't work properly, I will try to get it going if you can come back, but it will take a while- Could I interest you in the Horizon, it fully upgradeable- heard that one before from B&O. terrible after sales,laissez faire customer sales and service. There is no way any company can survive like this-( or deserves to) even the stuff they do sell is ridden with software problems.
355f: "The strategic direction is unchanged, but it is evident that a fundamental change of the sales and marketing efforts is required and that we need to create a culture in which we are closer to customers and partners," chief executive Kristian Tear said in a statement.
The ones which are left.. yes. It's a shame B&O didn't create a culture where selling Play products could be the 'overhead absorption' for the dealer, then selling the main products would be the profit. I quote Tue Mantoni, word for word on this - as he said it to my face...
So, what did B&O do? They made their dealers busy expensive store furniture and a room full of Play stock - then screwed their dealers and sold it to Costco and anyone else who wanted a pallet load for less than their dealers could get it for... Nice work.
The only culture which will bring the partners closer to B&O is one where they listen to what the dealers want to sell - rather than telling the dealers what they should sell. That was a tragic mistake, ignoring the dealers.
Anyway, it is what it is... I'd love to see LG come in and take them as a halo brand. Imagine that!
Lee
Or writing gift card messages where only a whimsical grip on reality is a benefit.
Ban boring signatures!
Start cutting back on your core business with TVs, watch your sales drop accordingly.
And surprise surprise guess what's happened.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
That was a depressing listen.
Far too much talk of better sales and marketing, and little recognition that many of the products launched in the last few years have been either unexciting, compromised or not working. Which is strange, especially as he mentions that inventory is sitting with dealers more than they had expected.
In other words, while sales and marketing is important to get right, the fundamentals of innovation, design and functionality that delivers out of the box is still primary or paramount, and has been weak in recent years.
On the sales / marketing front, they seem to be struggling to know exactly what is going on - lots of talk about getting better data to improve visibility. Oh dear.......
And yes, while the brand is still well known, a lot of that is for its history, while the recent experience has been beyond unacceptable, be that the Android TV's, the Moment, a long delayed entry into the sound bar market, etc etc. And that's before you get to the question of whether there is even a future in a world of streaming and no physical music.
The stock market was not encouraged by this update, down 16% today.
Why anyone would be encouraged by this update is beyond me.
This from the FT reporting today
The latest hiccups are unlikely to be the end for B&O. The brand is still powerful and the financial position is better than the share price suggests. Mr Teär, though, must look harder at his products to get things bangin’ again. B&O considers itself the Ferrari of consumer electronics. That is reflected in its prices. Here, it has got ahead of itself. Its Beovision Harmony television costs almost €20,000. The same LG screen can be bought for a third of that price without the B&O sound system. It's hard to imagine Ferrari selling many cars by slapping badges and body kits on to Alfa Romeos.
Product is ever more important in light of growing competition from the likes of Sonos and Bose. Both have taken market share over the past five years. Sonos of the US doubled to 1 per cent of global sales while Bose added almost two percentage points for a total of more than 7 per cent last year, according to Euromonitor. B&O’s market share is tiny. It will get tinier without urgent remedies.
All is not lost. Cash at the end of the second quarter stood at DKr298m ($45m) due to better stock management. By Mr Teär’s bearish predictions, that will halve by year end. If things get worse than expected the balance sheet, with only $10m of debt, can still be brought into play. Bang and Olufsen has a history of bouncing back from the brink. Contrarians should hit the replay button"
Millemissen: moxxey: Millemissen: https://www.recordere.dk/2019/12/skulle-have-vaeret-fremgang-nu-nedjusterer-bo-markant/ Nothing that I hadn’t expected. Did you expect miracles to happen? You ought to work in PR :) ....and I promote this link: https://bo.eventcdn.net/20191218/ (If you have the time - 45 min - listen). MM
B&O can do as much marketing as they want.Until the products work flawlessly and out of the box the sales will continue to drop.
B&O has obviously still not understood the revolution that internet has brought along.It is not only streaming etc.At least as big is how quick and easy it is to look up reviews and comments about products.Anyone aged below 50 will be doing a check on Google and the verdict comes back quickly and mercilessly:Great sound but the software is total ***.
And with that all sales efforts are killed.
B&O has to rapidly get this working.Judging from what I have read and guessed I think that B&O did the equally classic and stupid decision to place at least part of the development in India.Hopefully they have learned the lesson and pulled the plug on that.
Meanwhile. My Soundstage has landed back in Germany. Now I wonder how long before I get confirmation of a refund.
I’m sorry to read about the issues discussed here. Leaving aside the other important points made, Businesses neglect customer service excellence at their peril.
So Tue wasn't the Knight in shining armour then, was he?
They seem to be in quite the trouble this time.
Obviously the old buyers demographic isn't there anymore.
Too long to list....
I look at my beautiful bs5000 system in the corner and, as beautiful as it is, in truth it could be replaced by a photograph!
My music listening these days is in the car, Google home while pottering in the kitchen and BT headphones (Sony).
I remember when music was vital and important and had to be actively listened to - I'm not necessarily saying music has changed (it has but that's a discussion for when I have a pint in my hand) but me and my habits. Is it an age thing or has culture changed?
This may be for a different thred but I really believe the convenience of music availibilty has greatly lessened it's perceived value to the point it has become either musical wallpaper or else the "imbetween" stuff is skipped to only play the hits etc.
It's truly a different world with different players and b&o are in danger of being the old duffer battling Alzheimer's!
355f: "The strategic direction is unchanged, but it is evident that a fundamental change of the sales and marketing efforts is required and that we need to create a culture in which we are closer to customers and partners," chief executive Kristian Tear said in a statement. That seals the fate of B&O then. Rather interestingly, I went with an associate to listen and potentially buy some BL20. Having found the Knightsbridge flagship store closed, went to Selfridges ' we did have those but they were recalled to Milton Keynes - not sure if we wil have them anytime soon. Off to Harrods, Yes can demonstrate but they are on WISA and the one doesn't work properly, I will try to get it going if you can come back, but it will take a while- Could I interest you in the Horizon, it fully upgradeable- heard that one before from B&O. terrible after sales,laissez faire customer sales and service. There is no way any company can survive like this-( or deserves to) even the stuff they do sell is ridden with software problems.
At least you have dealers to disappoint you They've "solved" this problem in the US by closing most of them. I live in the Chicago area (I think we're still the 3rd largest metro area in the states, at one time the HQ for B&O North America was a few miles down the street), and my closest dealer is in Cincinnati (2 states away). This is similar to having the closest dealer to London being located in Paris (Chicago - Cincinnati: 296 mi vs London - Paris: 286 mi).
An astute post. Certainly there's been a change in the way most people, including us old farts, listen to music. I still have my main system in the living room, BS9000 with BL9s, and BL8000s in the diningroom/sunroom/kitchen area. I find I still listen to music, but with either system it's usually streaming not CDs, either from Spotify or from my Auralic Aries Mini with all my ripped CDs on it. I use the BS9000 as an artistic looking thing to connect the streaming box to the speakers. In the dining room area, where I spend most of my day on the laptop and in the sunroom, I listen to BL8000s hooked up to a Tibo streaming box. And it's not "serious" listening as an audiophile would, in the sunroom it's good sounding music to accompany my day.
B&O's problems are twofold, one they don't know how to adapt to the changes you mention in the consumer electronics/audio world, which is tough for any company. Secondly, they have consistently done the wrong thing. They've displayed a staggering level of arrogance coupled with incompetence in product development and support. Buggy s/w, products that don't work right at launch, or ever, poor customer support, poor support of their dealers. You also can't just suddenly declare you're Ferrari and expect people to buy into that and your elevated prices, especially if you're not doing a nearly perfect job of product quality.
B&O has, in the past, come perilously close to death, but while they took a while to readjust to the market, they always were still B&O, with a consistent and alluring design language. Since the death of David Lewis their designs are, at least to me, inferior regardless of how good they may sound or perform, or not as the case may be. I think B&O have lost sight of what they are or were.
Oh, and here in the US, living not that far from a major city (Atlanta) which has enough moneyed folk that whenever I go to town I see at least 2 over $200,000 cars and more high end Benzes and Audis and such than you can shake a stick at, the only B&O dealer went under about 3 years ago. That makes my closest dealer a 20 hour plus drive away.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff,
There is a place in Bonita springs Florida where you can buy B&O, surely that's not 20 hours away?
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
No, Bonita Springs is a "Solution Partner", who is not going to give you the time of day. "Become our theater installation client, and then maybe..." But still, it's more like 10 hours -- plus traffic! -- to the Gulfstream Racetrack store, just north of Miami. For as long as they stay in business...
About 13 hours from me, not counting that the map s/w always underestimates the traffic. And as mentioned not a full dealer.
Remember, Americans think 500 years is a long time and Europeans think 500 miles is a long trip.
And, I'm not driving over 13 hours to get to ANY electronics vendor/store. The dealer network in the US is for all intents and purposes non-existent. When a "luxury" brand can''t manage to keep stores open in tony rich areas like Atlanta and Chicago something is very wrong. I suspect the dealers that are out there are all barely hanging on by the edge of their fingernails.
Oh, agreed, unless you drive like I do! When you count the round-trip, it *is* 20+ hours, an overnight excursion "just to see a stereo". But I think Gulfstream is as full a dealership as we have in the USA, not a "Partner". They have more room and about as many products as Boston, and based on Henrik's video of NYC, as much room as there also. Alas, Miami is not like it was in the late 20th century where all South American luxury purchases were done -- maybe the Gulfstream store is living off some people's race winnings? No store in Las Vegas...
OK, now apropos of this topic, whether stores are "barely hanging on" any better or worse than their multi-line high-end brethren would be informed by an insider's account of what happened at Abt in Chicagoland during their negotiations. Anybody???
Chris Townsend: Start cutting back on your core business with TVs, watch your sales drop accordingly.
One thing we agree on for sure. The BV14 was and is amazing. Just update this. Use the economies of scale reached from a mature production, update the panel and put this out a an 'entry level' OLED B&O. I'd snap one up. Instead of trying to get people to buy an Eclipse for close to £10K. Why not keep the 55" BV14 and aim for a £5K price point - more than an LG C9, but you get half-decent sound, good looking set, fantastic remote and a solid unit.
Makes.No.Sense.
Stan: At least you have dealers to disappoint you They've "solved" this problem in the US by closing most of them. I live in the Chicago area (I think we're still the 3rd largest metro area in the states, at one time the HQ for B&O North America was a few miles down the street), and my closest dealer is in Cincinnati (2 states away). This is similar to having the closest dealer to London being located in Paris (Chicago - Cincinnati: 296 mi vs London - Paris: 286 mi).
Same in Austin, Texas. Visited this store in 2017, a year later it had gone. If you can't make a B&O store work in places such as Austin, Texas, where there's a half-decent amount of income and a 30-something tech crowd, you might as well give up.
@ Moxxey,
I couldn't agee more.
Rudy
It took a while until B&O realized they can not keep up with the innovation race and dropping prices for just 1 year old panels. The Harmony is the only way forward, attach a unmodified (except the B&O App from the LG content store) to the B&O magic. The Eclipse was a kind of a "half pregnant" approach from that point of view. Too much modification.
For me the next Eclipse must follow the same concept, attach a LG panel out of the box to a body. than have a couple of covers to make it look nice but have the core with the loudspeakers unchanged regardless of size of the panel.
The only question remains, is a Center Speaker with some magic and a sound processor worth 10k Euro?
kawo:It took a while until B&O realized they can not keep up with the innovation race and dropping prices for just 1 year old panels. The Harmony is the only way forward, attach a unmodified (except the B&O App from the LG content store) to the B&O magic. The Eclipse was a kind of a "half pregnant" approach from that point of view. Too much modification. For me the next Eclipse must follow the same concept, attach a LG panel out of the box to a body. than have a couple of covers to make it look nice but have the core with the loudspeakers unchanged regardless of size of the panel. The only question remains, is a Center Speaker with some magic and a sound processor worth 10k Euro?
kawo: The only question remains, is a Center Speaker with some magic and a sound processor worth 10k Euro?
moxxey:One thing we agree on for sure. The BV14 was and is amazing. Just update this. Use the economies of scale reached from a mature production, update the panel and put this out a an 'entry level' OLED B&O. I'd snap one up. Instead of trying to get people to buy an Eclipse for close to £10K. Why not keep the 55" BV14 and aim for a £5K price point - more than an LG C9, but you get half-decent sound, good looking set, fantastic remote and a solid unit. Makes.No.Sense.
B&O will likely find it hard to exist as a standalone high-end manufacturer because they currently don’t dominate any market they play in. So their best option is to merge and focus. So they could combine and concentrate on the very high end with the Beolab 18 and up line. Or merge and focus on the sub $3K market For the home. The would-be their Beoplay/Beosound line. In any case, they need to reduce their product line. Also, they should merge to improve their retail execution, which sucks right now.
Unfortunately, for B&O, the best bet is to be acquired by a Chinese company like Huawei looking to get into the high-end market. Similar to what happened with Volvo. The only way for them to stay independent is to focus on the products that are profitable now and to improve service to a level expected at their price point.
My 2 cents.
B&O in my life 😊:
Puncher: I look at my beautiful bs5000 system in the corner and, as beautiful as it is, in truth it could be replaced by a photograph! My music listening these days is in the car, Google home while pottering in the kitchen and BT headphones (Sony). I remember when music was vital and important and had to be actively listened to - I'm not necessarily saying music has changed (it has but that's a discussion for when I have a pint in my hand) but me and my habits. Is it an age thing or has culture changed? This may be for a different thred but I really believe the convenience of music availibilty has greatly lessened it's perceived value to the point it has become either musical wallpaper or else the "imbetween" stuff is skipped to only play the hits etc. It's truly a different world with different players and b&o are in danger of being the old duffer battling Alzheimer's!
Same here (to an extent), my BL5's haven't been providing anything but background music for years. Last time I actively listened to them (whit a drink in my hand) must have been back in 2015. Amazing what dogs and kids to to your life.
No I don't blame them, it is me who has changed. I too agree with you Puncher, music is available everywhere I go. I have all the thousands of albums right there in my pocket. Sure listening trough a nice pair of headphones (at current my most used pair is the new H9's) isn't getting even close to the pleasure of my BL9's at a proper level. I simply don't have the time, well time yes, but not the convenience. My house is so full of B&O gear that I'm sure my wife will soon either divorce me or have me locked up in a closed mental health ward.
Jaffrey2230:Unfortunately, for B&O, the best bet is to be acquired by a Chinese company like Huawei looking to get into the high-end market. Similar to what happened with Volvo. The only way for them to stay independent is to focus on the products that are profitable now and to improve service to a level expected at their price point.
Huawei? I certainly hope not. B&O is such a niche company, I really doubt there's a "big company" out there that understands their philosophy... Not even Apple I'm sure.
And what is the true worth in a company like B&O? It's not as if they're sitting on a massive patent portfolio, at least not one that matters today. Buying B&O would come with a lot of obligations. It would certainly end like a ***-storm and quick. When and if B&O get bought-up, Struer can close its doors.