ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Thanks for your help. I am now finally finding time to set up my setup described above (1 BLC connected to BV and a separate BLC to be connected to BV6/BC2). Just realized that there are still plenty of open questions:
1) The BC2 is connected to the BV5. When connecting the BLC, do I connect it to the BV5 or to the BC2?
2) How to set up the two BLCs? Audio master or slave or ? Where to make these configurations?
3) You mentioned happy programming. What do I actually need to program?
Thanks again, great community!!!
steve1977: 1) The BC2 is connected to the BV5. When connecting the BLC, do I connect it to the BV5 or to the BC2?
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Hi Steve,
I'm happy to try and talk you through the setup a step or two at a time.
Firstly a few questions:-
steve1977:1) The BC2 is connected to the BV5.
Connected how? Are the two connected with a masterlink cable? or by scart or phono cables? or both?
Do you have any speakers connected in this room? if so, are they connected to the BV5 or the BC2?
steve1977:2) How to set up the two BLCs? Audio master or slave or ? Where to make these configurations?
Once you've plugged them into your Ethernet network, the configuration will be made using a web browser on any computer connected to the same network. Which options to chose will depend on your answers to the other questions.
steve1977:3) You mentioned happy programming. What do I actually need to program?
You'll need to set the mode (eg audio master, video master, source centre, or slave) and the mapping of source names between masterlink and netlink. We can guide you through these once we know more about your setup.
One final question - I presume the BV6 and BC2 are in one room, and the BV7 is in another room? are these rooms currently connected together by masterlink cable or are they two independent standalone setups?
Kind Regards,
Martin.
Thanks so much for your quick replies.
BV5 and BV7 are in separate rooms and I do not have them connected and do not plan to connect them via ML.
As of now, there are no BLs connected to either the BL5 or BC2, but I plan to add a pair of BL3 and a BL2 shortly (plus maybe a pair of BL8000). I would have anticipated that I'd add speakers to the BV5 and not to the BC2.
I am not at home right, but - if I remember correctly - the BC2 box is connected via ML. I am sure that ML that ML is at least one of the connector as the BV5 turns on automatically when I play from the BC2. I don't think I am using scart or phone on-top, but would need to check.
Thanks again for all your help!
Okay, great, thank you for your answers.
I've been meaning to write a bit of a mini-guide for the NL/ML converter for a while to try and explain some of the areas where people become confused, so please excuse me if I go into too much detail or repeat what has already been said but I hope a more thorough explanation may help others in the future in addition to answering your questions.
I'll ignore for now the room with the BV7 since whilst it will be the easier of the two rooms to configure, it will also be the room where some decisions need to be made regarding whether you want the maximum number of sources available, or the greatest amount of consistency with regard to source names being the same in different rooms. Hopefully once we've gone through the slightly more complicated setup in the room with the BV5 and BC2 it will be easier for you to see how it works and what is possible and you should be better placed to make these decisions in the other room.
Ignoring the netlink side of things for a moment - it is useful to think about what devices can exist in a masterlink setup, and understand that the NL/ML converter simply takes on the 'role' of one of these devices:-
Video Master: This is responsible for providing video sources - TV, DTV, DTV2, V.MEM, DVD, DVD2, CAMERA, V.AUX2 and PC as performed by a Masterlink BeoVision (in this case your BV5) and there can only be a maximum of one Video Master in any Masterlink network.
Audio Master: This is responsible for providing audio sources - CD, RADIO, A.AUX and A.MEM and this role is being provided by your BC2. There can only be a maximum of one Audio Master connected to any Masterlink network.
Source Centre: This is responsible for providing two additional audio sources, namely N.MUSIC and N.RADIO - an example of such a device is the BM5/BS5.
Audio Slave: These are your link room products, and there can be a number of these (up to a maximum of 16 devices in total on a Masterlink network). These devices, whether they are true link room devices such as the BS3500, or audio or video products configured as link room devices (as option 5 or 6), cannot share their sources with other devices on the Masterlink network but instead are only able to either play these through integrated or directly attached speakers, or listen in on Sources supplied by the devices performing the other roles outlined above.
From a masterlink perspective, the NL/ML converter still has to fit into this scheme and take on one of these roles.
So, looking at your room with the BV5 and BC2 it is clear that the NL/ML converter cannot take on the role of either Video Master or Audio Master as both these roles are already being performed by the existing devices. This means we have to choose between configuring it as either a Source Centre or as an Audio Slave.
If you configure it as an Audio Slave then it can send audio from any of the sources supplied by the BV5 or the BC2 to any Network link devices you have (eg your A9), so you could listen to the TV audio on the A9, or the CD or RADIO of the BC2 on the A9, but as I mentioned above, an audio slave (or link room product) cannot introduce any audio into the masterlink network, so you would not be able to listen to any of your A9's sources on the BV5.
Instead then, we should configure it to perform the role of Source Centre - the converter is then still able to send any of the sources from the BV5 and BC2 to your A9 or any other NL devices you might add in the future (although only one source at a time), but it is also able to introduce two NL sources into your masterlink network (as N.RADIO and N.MUSIC) so they can be listened to on your BV5 or its speakers. What you now need to decide is which two NL sources these should be. For example, you might decide that N.RADIO should correspond to Deezer from the A9, and N.MUSIC should correspond to DNLA from the A9 - these are only examples, you might choose different NL sources from the A9, or even different sources from another NL product, but the important thing is that the NL/ML converter can only ever add two additional sources into your masterlink network in this role.
When you press N.RADIO on your remote, your BV5 will then ask the Source centre (which happens to be your NL/ML converter) to provide this source, in the same way that it would ask your BC2 to provide a source when you press CD. It doesn't care where the converter get this audio from, it just knows that the converter has told it that it is a source center and can therefore provide N.MUSIC and N.RADIO. The converter, when it receives this request, then looks at how you have configured it and sees that when it is asked to provide N.MUSIC, you have said it should start or join Deezer on the A9 and send this audio into the masterlink network.
In the second room with the BV7, the (separate) masterlink network only has a Video Master (the BV7) so the converter is free to adopt either of the two roles we've discussed as options for the first room, but since there is no Audio Master in this masterlink network, you could also choose for it to take on the role of Audio Master instead. If it takes on this role, it is able to make more NL sources available to the BV7 (mapped to CD, RADIO, A.AUX and A.MEM) as opposed to just the two (N.MUSIC and N.RADIO), but the downside is that you then have inconsistent naming between rooms - so you'd have to press N.RADIO to listen to Deezer on the BV5, but press RADIO to listen to the same source on your BV7. Whether the ability to access four NL sources on the BV7 instead of just the two that you can access on the BV5 is worth the tradeoff of the inconsistent source naming is for you to decide.
I'll go into more detail about how to configure the two converters once you've decided this and once we've gone through how they should be physically connected:-
In the room with the BV7, it's simply be a case of connecting the converter to the BV7 with a masterlink cable and configuring the BV7 as V.OPT2 if it isn't already. You'll need a masterlink cable with a masterlink plug at one end, and either a masterlink plug, or an RJ45 plug at the other (as the converter has both types of socket and you can use either).
In the room with the BV5 and BC2 you will either need to cut the ML cable between the two products. and use a junction box to join a third cable into this from the converter, or you can utilise both the RJ45 plug and ML plug masterlink ports on the NL/ML converter in order to connect both products directly to the converter (one using an ML to RJ45 cable, and one using an ML to ML cable).
You will also need to connect both converters to your ethernet network.
Let me know once you've got this far, or if there is anything from my explanations that you think could do with clarification and we'll then move on to configuring the converters.
Wow, thanks so much Martin. This is amazing and really helpful.
I do have one critical question before making the decision how to set things up: Is the 2 vs. 4 source limitation "just" limiting what I can select directly from the BV5 using the remote or also limiting what I can cast to the BV using the Beomusic app? If this is a definite limitation, even a limitation to 4 sources would be quite a constraint of what I am trying to accomplish. I am thinking of DLNA, Deezer, TuneIn, Beo9, BV7, BV5 as sources, which already makes it 6. Impossible or still possible through the app?
Also, why would I bother about the inconsistent naming? I understand this may be annoying if using the same Beo4 remote for both BVs. If I'd use two Beo4s for this purpose, would this be an issue? (e.g., inside the Beomusic app?)
Thanks again, I know how much effort it is to walk me through the setup. Hugely helpful and appreciated!
BeoNut since '75
steve1977:I do have one critical question before making the decision how to set things up: Is the 2 vs. 4 source limitation "just" limiting what I can select directly from the BV5 using the remote or also limiting what I can cast to the BV using the Beomusic app?
Actually that is a really good question. Where I've installed NL/ML converters to date has been in setups where either an older ML based BeoVision is being upgraded to a newer NL television, or where an older ML BeoSound has been swapped for say a BS Moment - In both scenarios it has also been the case that the rest of the setup has remained ML based at this stage so the number of ML source names available has not been a limitation.
For the same reasons, I've not had much cause to look at exactly how the beomusic app behaves in relation to the converter, and the functionality has tended to evolve with new each new release of product software and the app.
On that basis I will have to leave it to others to confirm how this would work (or wait a few weeks until I've had a chance to add a couple of Essence boxes, along with a converter, to my currently 'ML only' setup at home).
steve1977:Also, why would I bother about the inconsistent naming? I understand this may be annoying if using the same Beo4 remote for both BVs. If I'd use two Beo4s for this purpose, would this be an issue? (e.g., inside the Beomusic app?)
There is no issue with the inconsistent naming per se, other than the human one of making it more difficult to remember which button does what in each room.
steve1977:Thanks again, I know how much effort it is to walk me through the setup. Hugely helpful and appreciated!
You're very welcome. Let me know once you've got everything cables and we'll try and work through the initial setup / configuration of the converters.
Thanks again for your help. I am thinking to disconnect and not use the BC2 anymore. This may dramatically simplify things. Also, I may no longer needs it as I could play DVDs from my BV7 directly to my BV5 if I understand this right?
To fully understand how ML/N works. The "ML sources" (the ones from my BV5) would not be individually available in my "NL world". In other words, the ML/NL adapter acts as one source rather than many?
Further to my response yesterday, I connected up a test setup today consisting of a BC2 connected to an NL/ML converter (along with the large variety of NL based products already setup in store).
Here are my observations (some are not relevant to your proposed setup but are included for completeness and future reference by others):
steve1977:I am thinking to disconnect and not use the BC2 anymore. This may dramatically simplify things.
This would give you the same source names to map to on each of your beovisions, as both converters would then be configured as Audio Master.
steve1977:Also, I may no longer needs it as I could play DVDs from my BV7 directly to my BV5 if I understand this right?
If you're talking about the audio from the BV7 DVD then yes, if you are talking about the video too, then unfortunately, no. NL is only concerned with audio and has no video support at all. You could connect both BeoVisions by ML cable and add a coax, which would enable you to convey video sources (standard definition only) from the BV7 to the BV5 in addition to audio. You might then consider using the 2nd converter just for the BC2 (purely as a CD player and radio, but not as a DVD player). In this setup the BV5 would become a link room television and it would no longer be possible to share any of its sources with other rooms.
steve1977:To fully understand how ML/N works. The "ML sources" (the ones from my BV5) would not be individually available in my "NL world". In other words, the ML/NL adapter acts as one source rather than many?
Correct. A ML network has just a single pair of left and right audio channels. So you can only ever have one audio source being injected into the ML network (and in the case of the NL/ML converter, then sent onwards via the network to other devices).
riverstyx:steve1977:To fully understand how ML/N works. The "ML sources" (the ones from my BV5) would not be individually available in my "NL world". In other words, the ML/NL adapter acts as one source rather than many?Correct. A ML network has just a single pair of left and right audio channels. So you can only ever have one audio source being injected into the ML network (and in the case of the NL/ML converter, then sent onwards via the network to other devices).Kind Regards,Martin.
elephant: riverstyx: steve1977: To fully understand how ML/N works. The "ML sources" (the ones from my BV5) would not be individually available in my "NL world". In other words, the ML/NL adapter acts as one source rather than many? Correct. A ML network has just a single pair of left and right audio channels. So you can only ever have one audio source being injected into the ML network (and in the case of the NL/ML converter, then sent onwards via the network to other devices). Kind Regards, Martin. Not individually available in parallel because as Martin says it's a single channel. However each named source can be individually activated - and in thus doing deactivates the other previously active ML named source.
riverstyx: steve1977: To fully understand how ML/N works. The "ML sources" (the ones from my BV5) would not be individually available in my "NL world". In other words, the ML/NL adapter acts as one source rather than many? Correct. A ML network has just a single pair of left and right audio channels. So you can only ever have one audio source being injected into the ML network (and in the case of the NL/ML converter, then sent onwards via the network to other devices). Kind Regards, Martin.
steve1977:
Not individually available in parallel because as Martin says it's a single channel. However each named source can be individually activated - and in thus doing deactivates the other previously active ML named source.
Thanks. So, let's assume I am watching regular television on the BV5. I know I could "join" the A9 and also listen to the audio of the television. Can I also via the Beomusic app activate a different ML source (e.g., no longer watching television, but playing an audio CD) and play this to the A9 (BV5 then turns off and no longer plays television and unless I activate it as playing device also does not play the audio CD on the BV5 speakers).
Anyhow, I think I am making it too complicated. As a first step, it may be easiest to drop the BC2. I can just connect both the BV5 and BV7 with two separate adapters. If I really need a DVD player for the BV5 (which I rarely use anyways), I could always buy a cheap Samsung or something like this. I can put the BC2 in the storage and eventually use it again in the future or even sell it off if I still get some money for it.
What do you think?
Thanks again for the great help. I am now taking one step at a time to get the multi-room setup to work.
As a first step, I connected the ML/NL converter via ML to the ML port of the BV (connected to BLs). Unfortunately, I did not succeed yet to have it join Deezer or other music playing on the A9.
The ML/NL converter shows up in the Beomusic app, but I cannot find the feature to join or even directly play Deezer or others to the converter/BV7.
Please see my config below:
Version 1.4.3.19864ML enabledML role: A MasterIR option 2NL primary as well as secondary to ML/NL converterProduct called by apps "ML Videomaster"
Thanks for your help!
You won't be able to 'push' netlink sources to the converter / BV7 via the app (although you should be able to push BV7 sources to your A9), you will have to set up the mappings within the converter and press the relevant remote button to select one of these sources on the BV7.
Your Converter settings so far are fine, except that I would change NL primary to your A9.
Then go into the sources mapped to NL and sources mapped to ML screens and select which A9 source you want to correspond to each BV7 source and vice-versa.
Thanks for your quick reply.
So, I cannot start any NL content on the BV7 from the Beomusic app? I still need the Beo4 for all of that? Not even join (which I thought was even possible with the IR eye)?
steve1977:So, I cannot start any NL content on the BV7 from the Beomusic app?
I don't believe so., although once you've mapped some NL sources to ML source names you should check the app in portrait mode to see whether these can be selected / triggered.
steve1977:Not even join (which I thought was even possible with the IR eye)?
I haven't tried using the converter with an eye attached, but the join function on the eye (and indeed the eye itself) is for when you have speakers attached to the converter itself (eg when using it like a beolink active).
Technically speaking, it ought to be possible for B&O to implement this by allowing the converter to send whatever commands (over masterlink) that an Audio Master in option 0 would send when, for example, you walk up to such a device and press the CD button on it's local panel (BV turns on, audio comes out of BV attached speakers) - but to my knowledge this is not possible right now.
I played a bit more around with it. Unfortunately, I can still not get it to work.
I now selected my A9 as primary "connect to". Within Beomusic, all ML sources and selected NL sources from the BV7 show up. Unfortunately, I am still failing to play anything on the BV7. Two issues:
1) I cannot map Deezer and also not DLNA. I am limited the mapping to TuneIn, Line-In, Qplay, Bluetooth and Music
2) When I select - for example - TuneIn, the BV7 does not play TuneIn. It feels quite weird as I can switch to some of the ML sources (but also not to all).
Any more thoughts?
steve1977:When I select - for example - TuneIn, the BV7 does not play TuneIn. It feels quite weird as I can switch to some of the ML sources (but also not to all).
How are you selecting TuneIn on the BV7? You need to map this to one of the available ML source names, for example map RADIO to A9 TuneIn, then press the RADIO button on the beo4 to instruct the BV7 to join this source.
Can you post some photos / screenshots to show how you have the NL/ML converter configured?
And some more info. I can select through the app the ML sources TV, V.MEM, DTV, DVD and CAMERA. I cannot select the ML sources DVD2, DTV2, V.AUX2 and PC as well as none of the ML sources mapped to NL (RADIO, etc.). Any thoughts?
Any more views based on the screenshot and additinoal info?
Elmer not sure about your system. I had to set my Beomaster5 to Audio Master for it to work with my Avant 55 and NL/ML converter. Once I did that it worked. I then added the Beosound 9000 (turn off the NL/ML, plug in your source, in this case BS9000, then turn on the converter, finally turn on the BS9000. I had to do these steps for each source, then I was able to connect and play my sources..I would suggest you try and connect one source at time, then others. Let us know how this works for you?
Thanks for your message. My setup is a lot easier - at least what I am trying to achieve first. I only have one source connected to ML/NL via ML, which is the BV7. I would then like to play NL sources from my A9 to the BV7 (e.g., Deezer, TuneIn).
I am facing two major issues:
1) I cannot play any NL source on my BV7 - neither through the Beomusic app nor using the Beo4 (selecting Radio). Screenshot below how I have mapped the NL sources. ML/NL is set to A-Master and A9 as primary
2) I cannot map all NL sources to the ML/NL (e.g., cannot map DLNA)
Any additional thoughts?
steve1977:thanks for your message. here we go with the screenshot.
Let me rephrase the question. It would be great to hear from anyone using a ML/NL converter with a BV whether they succeeded to play NL sources from directly on their BV and more specifically whether one of these sources can be Deezer? Thanks for your help!
Things are often very quiet around here in the summer, especially August. I have a full ML network so I can't help. My BeoLink converter is setup as a "link" room - I use it to bring ML into NL, not vice-versa. Also, there's no Deezer in the US...
My understanding is that it should work as you describe (NL sources can "substitute" for ML sources not present in the ML) but there can be licensing issues that prohibit the distribution of audio..
I recommend patience, and possibly a "bump" to the thread in September once people get back from holiday if no one has answered.
Stan
steve1977: Let me rephrase the question. It would be great to hear from anyone using a ML/NL converter with a BV whether they succeeded to play NL sources from directly on their BV and more specifically whether one of these sources can be Deezer? Thanks for your help!
This is my configuration. On the NL side there is a Moment connected, and in the chain of ML there is also a BV3 television.For listening to any NL source on this ML equipped television I have to push first the LINK button and next choosing a NL source on the remote.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Thanks a lot. Let me change from A-Master to AV-Master and see whether this makes a difference.
Are you using the Beomusic app and have you tried to start playback on your BV3 from the app?
Tried AV-Master, but did not make any difference.
Your setup below is working with your BV3 (with Moment), so there is little reason why mine should work with BV7 (with A9). So, worth to keep trying...
Would be great if you can help elaborate what you mean by "LINK button". I don't have a LINK button on my Beoremote One and also not on my Beo4. Right now, I am "just" clicking "CD" (one of the sources mapped to NL), but nothing happens. It does not even play a CD (it plays the BV7 internal DVD though when I press DVD).
Thanks again for your help!
steve1977: Tried AV-Master, but did not make any difference. Your setup below is working with your BV3 (with Moment), so there is little reason why mine should work with BV7 (with A9). So, worth to keep trying... Would be great if you can help elaborate what you mean by "LINK button". I don't have a LINK button on my Beoremote One and also not on my Beo4. Right now, I am "just" clicking "CD" (one of the sources mapped to NL), but nothing happens. It does not even play a CD (it plays the BV7 internal DVD though when I press DVD). Thanks again for your help!
Add the LINK as an additional command to your LIST button on the Beoremote 4. (see your remote manual how to add extra commands).
Now the example:
If I want to listen to the TV sound on ML devices somewhere in the house, the V1 presents always its TV sound (see picture). There is never a possibility to listen to the TV sound of my BV3 on other ML devices in the house. (see picture where I added the V1 as secondary.)
How it works now in front of the BV3:
If I'm standing in front of my BV3 and want to listen to the TV sound, pushing the TV button gives me picture and sound from the BV3 directly (not from the V1). ! But by pushing the LINK + TV button it gives me the TV sound from my V1 on the BV3 !
The same happens for listening to Tunein or Music from my NL source (the Moment). Pushing LINK + radio or CD or A-MEM in front of the BV3, this command starts the BV3' sound engine (no picture) and let me listen to content coming from the Moment.
Any further questions?
Hi Chris
if I've got it right, you don't have to "wake up" the moment first before it can distribute the sound to the BV3? Hence this will all be done through the BLC (wake up Moment, select eg. Deezer), right? You just have to push LINK + Radio.
Kind Regards
Reto
Reto: Hi Chris if I've got it right, you don't have to "wake up" the moment first before it can distribute the sound to the BV3? Hence this will all be done through the BLC (wake up Moment, select eg. Deezer), right? You just have to push LINK + Radio. Kind Regards Reto
Exactly, no wake up first. It happens automatically. Just give it some time (+10sec) the BV3 has to wake up and the Moment... The handshake between them...
Thanks for your replies. This is very helpful.
LINK button exists on Beo4. but not possible to add on Beoremote One?
@Elephant achieved exactly what I wanted to. Did you do any programming on the BV8? Did you use a Beo3 or One to "program" anything? I am really at a loss why this is not working for me. I see TuneIn in the app, but if I select it, nothing happens.
elephant:My setup where today I was able to use the BeoMusic app to trigger music (Deezer) from the essence into the NL/ml and therefore my bv8 and my bs4. Also succeeded with TuneIn (bb4) onto the units. Note that because my ml has an audio master and a video master I have it set up as source centre.
Also succeeded with TuneIn (bb4) onto the units.
Note that because my ml has an audio master and a video master I have it set up as source centre.
steve1977:LINK button exists on Beo4. but not possible to add on Beoremote One?
steve1977:@Elephant achieved exactly what I wanted to. Did you do any programming on the BV8? Did you use a Beo3 or One to "program" anything? I am really at a loss why this is not working for me. I see TuneIn in the app, but if I select it, nothing happens.
Apologies for the delay in responding - I've been working away.
Am I correct in thinking that your current (test) setup consists of just the BeoVision and the NL/ML converter connected together with a ML cable?
If so you were correct to configure the converter as Audio Master (I see that in a later post you have tried A/V master - so change this back if you have not already done so).
Importantly, the BV must be configured as v.opt 2 in this setup as otherwise it will ignore all non video commands.
Once you've done this, and based on the mappings you've shown above, it should simply be a case of pressing the RADIO button on you beo4 to instruct the BV to play TuneIn, or the A.MEM button to play Deezer (although I would be tempted to map BeoPlay A9 -> Music to the CD button instead in this instance, and I'd also be inclined to set the other buttons to Empty rather than having duplicates).
There should be no need to use the app at all for this functionality.
As elephant has mentioned, it is often necessary to reboot the converter after configuration changes are made - indeed I have found that the web interface will often stop responding properly on certain screens until you have done so.
steve1977:the game changer may be the comment to set the BV to v.opt2. what is this and how to do it?