ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Millemissen: The term 'videoengine' might be a wrong term for the new 'platform' used in BV11/V1/BSys4 and forthcomining tv's. A couple of years ago we heard the terms 'videoengine' and 'audioengine' being used for the Intel based platforms of the planned new Bang & Olufsen products. In fact it is the same base - modified through the SW running on it. We have heard term like 'small engine' and 'big engine' too. Thus the term 'videoengine' stayed for the tv products as a name for the engine used in the tv's - of cource handling the audio and more as well! The power of this engine and the ability to run different software for different needs on it is its strenght. It is much easier to maintain, extend and to use for different needs than earlier platforms. In Struer they talk about 'videoengine versions' - note: I don't know the exact specs! So we will surely see some NEW possibilities in the version built into the BSys4 - and we can expect to see updates in the next years too - it will not be a rebadget V1-engine! No use speculating - when we know more, maybe we can read it in this thread. Anyway we will soon see what is planned - the launch is mid/end august. I am sure that the 'videoengine' ;-) will be capable of of handling 4K, but I am also sure that we will have to wait for the implementing of 4K untill we see affordable big 4K displays...and more content. Time will tell if I am right! If Bv12/BV4 owners want to upgrade to the BSys4 must be an individual choice. New buyers of a BV12 NG will get a tv that suits most wishes. Quote: "We are expecting a reduction of the Recommended Consumer Price (RCP) of a BeoVision 12 NG with BeoSystem 4 of approx. 20-25% compared to the current BeoVision 12 and BeoSystem 3 package." Greetings Milemissen
The term 'videoengine' might be a wrong term for the new 'platform' used in BV11/V1/BSys4 and forthcomining tv's.
A couple of years ago we heard the terms 'videoengine' and 'audioengine' being used for the Intel based platforms of the planned new Bang & Olufsen products. In fact it is the same base - modified through the SW running on it. We have heard term like 'small engine' and 'big engine' too.
Thus the term 'videoengine' stayed for the tv products as a name for the engine used in the tv's - of cource handling the audio and more as well!
The power of this engine and the ability to run different software for different needs on it is its strenght.
It is much easier to maintain, extend and to use for different needs than earlier platforms.
In Struer they talk about 'videoengine versions' - note: I don't know the exact specs!
So we will surely see some NEW possibilities in the version built into the BSys4 - and we can expect to see updates in the next years too - it will not be a rebadget V1-engine!
No use speculating - when we know more, maybe we can read it in this thread. Anyway we will soon see what is planned - the launch is mid/end august.
I am sure that the 'videoengine' ;-) will be capable of of handling 4K, but I am also sure that we will have to wait for the implementing of 4K untill we see affordable big 4K displays...and more content. Time will tell if I am right!
If Bv12/BV4 owners want to upgrade to the BSys4 must be an individual choice. New buyers of a BV12 NG will get a tv that suits most wishes.
Quote: "We are expecting a reduction of the Recommended Consumer Price (RCP) of a BeoVision 12 NG with BeoSystem 4 of approx. 20-25% compared to the current BeoVision 12 and BeoSystem 3 package."
Greetings Milemissen
Thank you for the information. It will be very interesting to see when it is released.
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The new Beovision 12 will have a B&O stand, and a new colour or two might be integrated . It will not be 4K.
Beosystem 4 still a mystery.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Tonker:The new Beovision 12 will have a B&O stand,
New Topaz colour!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Not sure. The STB brochure which is new and fantastic(take note B&O) has a 12-65 stand for sale.
I've been told that panasonic not invest money anymore in plasma develepments.
The latest ZT panel will be the last one
At that point B&O will be chancing the display - that is a simple fact....
....maybe to a 4K display.
Only when?
Chris Townsend:Considering you can now get a 4K ready Sony TV with some fairly decent internal speakers for £4,0000, you would be taking a heck of a jump in faith to spend £10,000 odd on a non 4K Beovision 12-65 later on in the year.
If only we had the standalone image system ... to drive our B&O speakers :-
Sony Australia Press Release 11 June on C|Net: Sony has now confirmed that it will sell the 55-inch Bravia 4K at AU$5999, and the 65-inch model at AU$8999. In the US, the current retail prices for the two TVs are US$4999 for the 55 inch and US$6999 for the 65 inch. LG had previously announced that it would be releasing 55- and 65-inch versions of its Ultra HD TV in Australia, pricing them at AU$6999 and AU$8999. As previously reported, the new 4K TVs will come bundled with eight of Sony's 4K movies, including Ghostbusters, Spider-Man and Angels and Demons. The TVs will be available in retail from July this year.
Sony has now confirmed that it will sell the 55-inch Bravia 4K at AU$5999, and the 65-inch model at AU$8999.
In the US, the current retail prices for the two TVs are US$4999 for the 55 inch and US$6999 for the 65 inch. LG had previously announced that it would be releasing 55- and 65-inch versions of its Ultra HD TV in Australia, pricing them at AU$6999 and AU$8999.
As previously reported, the new 4K TVs will come bundled with eight of Sony's 4K movies, including Ghostbusters, Spider-Man and Angels and Demons.
The TVs will be available in retail from July this year.
I wonder if "Ghostbusters" in 4K is like watching a 1950's Hammer Studio's B/W horror movie in HD .... i.e. not very useful
BeoNut since '75
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
There is only one solution to this problem:
A seperate 'box' with the 'videoengine' (including all = BSys4) and a display - and of course the speakers as usual.
This way early adopter may change to a new display every year and softwareupdate the 'box' (which might work for 4-5 years).
Is this what we want from Bang & Olufsen?
Greetings MM
They might even make a frame for swapping the display/panel - just like you now can swap the loudspeaker front 😄
seethroughyou:Does this release mean that B&O have again been caught on the back foot with the Beovision 11 with it costing twice as much as a Sony 4k but with no 4k in their Bv11? When you spend £10,000 on a B&O TV you expect it last at least 10 years in terms of functionality. With the price war starting between LG and SONY over 4k and it becoming more reasonable for the consumer I'd be a bit reluctant to buy a Beovision 11 now despite its stunning looks. I think in all fairness to B&O this is always going to be an issue. Every few years the industry brings out a better format so you have to move from VHS, to DVD, to Blu-ray to 4k. In 5 years time we will be discussing how something to better than 4k will be on the horizon and is it wise to spend so much on a B&O TV. I guess we had more security in the days of VHS and even DVD.
When you spend £10,000 on a B&O TV you expect it last at least 10 years in terms of functionality. With the price war starting between LG and SONY over 4k and it becoming more reasonable for the consumer I'd be a bit reluctant to buy a Beovision 11 now despite its stunning looks.
I think in all fairness to B&O this is always going to be an issue. Every few years the industry brings out a better format so you have to move from VHS, to DVD, to Blu-ray to 4k. In 5 years time we will be discussing how something to better than 4k will be on the horizon and is it wise to spend so much on a B&O TV. I guess we had more security in the days of VHS and even DVD.
It has been much worse than that in the last 8 years with releasing new products that were already dated. There is not a single 32” TV (BV7, BV8) that has a full-HD panel, while other brands had them for years. Even when they introduced the BV9, the panel was still HD-Ready. A 20K tv! And ignoring the fact that hdmi became pretty much standard in 2004/2005, B&O continued for years with just one DVI-connection in their BV7.
Having said that, I’m kind of surprised that some people are so sure the BS4 will have the latest technology. I really hope so and I think they should, but I have to see it first..
Millemissen: A seperate 'box' with the 'videoengine' (including all = BSys4) and a display - and of course the speakers as usual. Is this what we want from Bang & Olufsen?
Not for nearly £6K, no! By the time you add your 55" screen to this, it will be way more than a BV11-55.
If they can bring out a sensibly-priced unit, maybe so. Plus it needs to be much smaller. I know it won't be anyway near as small as an Apple TV, but it should be able to slot in to the back of a panel, in some capacity.
The issue with '4K' for me is that it leaves potential customers feeling like it's the next new standard, thanks to positive press about 4K picture quality. It reminds me of HD about ten years ago, where there was little HD content, but people knew it was coming and demanded a HD-ready TV. The same thing will happen with 4K over the next 12 months. Little content, but people will expect it to be supported, particularly if you're going to commit to a £10K+ B&O TV purchase.
@moxxey,
did I mention any price of my proposed combo?
As for the size - lets see how the BSys3 will be?
Personally I would find it nice to have just 2 cables to the display and being able to stove all the rest away in a cupboard.
Anyway it was just some thoghts of mine.
Mid/end august we'll seewhat happens.
Most people don't bother about 4K now - they just want a 'good looking tv, that is easy to use'.
Very few B&O costumers are as radical as you regarding support of 4K - other things matters more.
As for the actual prices, it is already said that the B12 NG will be about 20-25% cheaper that the recent BV12.
Time will tell if that is too much. For you perhaps - but for the rest of us maybe not 😳
Are you about to change your system now?
Or was it just your thoughts on the subject?
Grrr! Millemissen
Millemissen: @moxxey, did I mention any price of my proposed combo?
The BS3 is currently well over £5K, so one would naturally assume the forthcoming BS4 would be the same. Even with a 25% discount, it's still a very very expensive external box. If you were to add a panel - even a 46" panel - to this external unit, it's going to be well over £10K in every scenario. And then we're assuming it will support 4K. It may not.
And as for 'very few B&O customers are as radical as you', bear in mind we publish consumer tech magazines. One of the biggest in the world. We hear from our readers and many of them are curious about 4K, in the same way many were about HD, ten years ago. If you really believe B&O customers - remember the traditional customer base is declining fast - don't care about future TV standards, and are happy to fork out £10K+ on a TV without thinking about it, I refer you back to my previous comment about the thread where we wonder what B&O can do better to attract new customers.
There are fewer and fewer customers who 'just want a good looking (expensive) tv, that is easy to use'. I'm not saying they don't exist, but B&O can't build a business on the hope that there will be a userbase of users who don't get about forthcoming standards....but on the flipside have so much spare cash that they can spend the price of a new small car on their TV.
You really make it sound as if Bang & Olufsen don't give a damn about new standarts.
I don't think that it is so, but on the other hand I don't expect that a small company which offers audio/video/loudspeaker products with many innovative aspects (one of them being 'backwardscompatibility'), should be amongst the first ones to launch a 65" BV with 4K LED display for say 5K£.
Please don't overreact - I am sure that the BV12 NG will be an extraordinary tv.
If you don't need a new tv now, just wait for what is coming afterwards.
I am sure your readers are deeply interested in and curious about 4K, but being interested/curious does not mean that you are going to buy a 4K tv tomorrow or the day after.
4K alone would not attract new costumers to B&O.
A Bang & Olufsen tv has to be something more than that, and will never be in the market as a competitors of Samsung/Pana and co.
If the guys in Struer should build their tv's like 'some' people on this forum want it (including myself 😳), and sell them to prices expected on this forum, the company wouldn't last long.
I think they make their decitions from what they know, and I will buy if I like the stuff....if I need it.
Greetings Millemissen
@Raeuber - do not wait for a 'new BV7'. Those times are over, and for exact the same reasons we are discussing here. Noone is willing to pay that much for a tv that is to - some degree - outdated in 3-4 years time.
Besides all centerspeakers are EOL:
"BeoVision 4-85 and BeoVision 7-40 and 7-55 - termination":
BeoVision 7: "This includes all accessories, including BeoLab 7, stands, etc." BeoVision 4-85: "This includes all accessories, including BeoLab 10, stands, etc."
They will be producing less expensive tv's - I am sure - and we will have to pay less because we don't want to pay more.
@seethroughyou - it seems that we disagree to some extend..
I never said they would wait that long anymore - I just said that we should not expect a 4K display with the BV12 NG coming this august.
Rumours say that there is more to come this year - we will see.
I am sure rhe 'videoengine' is capable of more than we now see in the BV11.
"...most B&O fans do here and buy it from someone else like Sony...."
How many are "most B&O fans here"? And how many are they compared to the actual owners/potential new buyers?
And if, they surely are missing the point of Bang & Olufsen - that is a great sacrifice for the sake of a 4K technology that hasn't even proven itself in daily life yet.
Where is the content, where are the tv channels, where is Netflix and co in 4K?
Most people seem to be contend with reduced rate Netflix, iTunes movies and more - they don't even bother about buying/watching video in the highest quality that is avaible - Bluraydiscs - to get the most of their FullHD displays.
Chris Townsend:I'd agree with the first paragraph, but we must remember they are still a small company, and compared with Sony etc a minnow.
................which, it could be argued, should be able to react to changes quicker than large, slow moving corporations!
It also depends at what point B&O get access to the panels and/or panel specifications, e.g. -
B&O only have access to "last years" panels, orB&O only have access to panels and specifications after they have been generally released, orB&O have access to panel specifications while the panel is under development at the suppliers.
Whichever it is will impact on the timeline to get a TV with a specific panel to market.
Ban boring signatures!
Chris Townsend:I thought of that, but am just too tired to write long words. Good point.
Head still sore from the weekend?
Millemissen: Most people seem to be contend with reduced rate Netflix, iTunes movies and more - they don't even bother about buying/watching video in the highest quality that is avaible - Bluraydiscs - to get the most of their FullHD displays.
Yes, but these 'most people content with reduced rate' are also not interested buying £10K BV11-55's or BV7's. You've pretty much answered your own point there. Sadly the market is moving in a direction *away* from B&O's ethics.
A good example from my own recent experience: Downfall has a scene where Berlin is being shelled by the Russians. A few years ago, when I had my BV7/BL7.4/BL9s combo, this scene on Blu-ray was simply incredible. The explosions rocked the room and then some. A memory I can still remember today, five or so years on.
Bought Downfall cheap on iTunes last night, watched it on my BV11/BL11 combo. Yeah the picture quality was decent. The sound experience was shockingly poor. Those explosions were pitiful. Partly as I've sold the BL9s, partly as iTunes HD movies offer a poor sound experience in comparison with the non-compressed audio you get on a Blu-ray.
But that's the way the market is going. Ironically moving in a direction which doesn't get the most from your future B&O equipment. Music from iTunes, movies from Netflix or Apple TV and so on.
B&O are really up against it. On one hand you have these users who accept and live with the 'reduced rate' audio/video experience (so don't need a £10K BV11-55), but on the flipside you have a bunch of other people who want the latest technology, now. Although I don't believe B&O will bring a 4K soon - I never implied they would - if they bring out new high-end TVs, at over £10K, they need to justify this technology to both the press (yes, us) and the general public.
It's going to be very interesting to see B&O's press spin on a replacement £11K BV7-40, if it does arrive in the near future.
Chris Townsend: I don't listen to much music at the moment, but if and when I do spend a lot of money on gear, I want the very best quality or bit rate etc..
I don't listen to much music at the moment, but if and when I do spend a lot of money on gear, I want the very best quality or bit rate etc..
Sadly though Chris, the market is going the other way, which is why it's getting harder to shift B&O kit. You're not finding people like yourself who are prepared to fork out thousands of pounds for a new B&O TV, set of speakers, then hunt for the best quality experience so they can justify the purchase.
Downfall is a great example. From Apple TV - which we all agree is a great source for HD movies - the picture is great. Not far off Blu-ray. The sound experience is just awful in comparison to Blu-ray. There is no comparison! I don't need to spend £10K on a TV and another £6K on a set of BL9s to get the most from Downfall from the Apple TV :)
Moxxey: " these 'most people content with reduced rate' are also not interested buying £10K BV11-55's or BV7's."
Certainly you don't know to marked - sadly quite a few B&O owners don't even know how good a Bluray movie looks and sounds, and they heardly ever listen to a good mastered audio file (cd or losless).
I've never understood why they don't use Dolby True HD on the itunes HD movies , maybe they will then again maybe most people can't really tell the difference between it and DD5.1 when they're watching Iron Man 2 ?
I know I can't.
Ok the explosions are a bit clearer , that's it.
Not really NEW, but - as I expected - the BL14 will now officially be sold in a 2.1 combination.
For an audio only setup/a link room setup or for those with a non B&O tv, who want something special and good sounding.
And for those of us who thought of using the satellites as rear and the sub as 'extension' for existing front speakers!
Raeuber: I don't like the boomy BL 2 and the weak BL 11
I am in the same situation.
My dealer told me that there will be soon a replacement for the bl2, surely wireless.
The sub of the bl14 set is exactly what I need.
If they feel there is enough demand I believe they will sell it alone.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
Personally I haven't heard of any new subwoofer yet, but I suppose that we will see one soon.
The BL2 will probably (my guess) be obsolete soon.
I don't think that they are going to sell the BL14 sub solo. It would be overkill to have a 5.1 amp built in for no use, but a new sub might look a bit like the 14 (again my guess).
I am not sure that the dealer, who "knows" that it will be wireless, is right.
1: you always need a powercord anyway - and you would need a transmitter connected to the 'SubPL output' (which also needs a powercord!)
2: what is the point of making a wireless sub, if the rest (of the speakers) are wired.
If wireless, then it must be a complete set wireless speakers!
@Raueber: do you really need a sub with the BL1's?
Millemissen: @Raueber: do you really need a sub with the BL1's? Greetings Millemissen
Millemissen: what is the point of making a wireless sub, if the rest (of the speakers) are wired
Hi MM,
You know that I don't like wireless audio but a wireless sub can be placed easier in a room and this fact is very essential for this kind of speaker.
BR
Olivier
cooldude: Peter Pan: Hello everyone / Peter Pan Absolutely love this idea!
Peter Pan: Hello everyone / Peter Pan
Hello everyone
/ Peter Pan
Absolutely love this idea!
Now we are talking!
Too long to list....