ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Duels:Of course you need to see it in real life. Otherwise you are just guessing.
Errrm, no. I don't know, maybe you are one of those who are unable to judge these things from photos, but I am not.
henrik:Errrm, no. I don't know, maybe you are one of those who are unable to judge these things from photos, but I am not.
Duels:Then you are lucky that you can simply buy products from pictures and never have to visit a store to see what things look like in real life.
Is the BL28 going to transform itself to a more simplified design when I enter the shop? Will the black 'spine' disappear? Is the base going to shrink? Please enlighten me.
henrik:Is the BL28 going to transform itself to a more simplified design when I enter the shop? Will the black 'spine' disappear? Is the base going to shrink? Please enlighten me.
Personally, I am happy with the product!100% fit into my interior!
No one is suggesting that.
But if you don't like something, going to see in most cases won't change your mind, especially when you get such a good preview from videos / AR apps.
Also, are those who say immediately upon launch "I'm going to get one" wrong? Because they won't have seen the product in real life.
I dont see the same criticism levelled at them.
Cant have it both ways.
Duels: henrik: Errrm, no. I don't know, maybe you are one of those who are unable to judge these things from photos, but I am not. Then you are lucky that you can simply buy products from pictures and never have to visit a store to see what things look like in real life.
henrik: Errrm, no. I don't know, maybe you are one of those who are unable to judge these things from photos, but I am not.
Then you are lucky that you can simply buy products from pictures and never have to visit a store to see what things look like in real life.
All I can say is, I keep an open mind and don’t judge from first impressions.
Alas, that might be too rational for many a beoworlder.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Sandyb:No one is suggesting that. But if you don't like something, going to see in most cases won't change your mind, especially when you get such a good preview from videos / AR apps. Also, are those who say immediately upon launch "I'm going to get one" wrong? Because they won't have seen the product in real life. I dont see the same criticism levelled at them. Cant have it both ways.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
I have to say I’m really into the design. I like how it looks like it’s floating along with the positioning of of the sub woofer. It actually looks better wall mounted for me. Somehow just knowing how my 18’s are I would still have a separate sub
I think it would look much better without that cheap looking touchscreen at the top that suddenly makes it look like a Samsung speaker or something from Best Buy. If only they put the tweeter from the 18’s up there. Sigh
Also. Not so sure about that fabric. Maybe it will look better in person or with the right combinations.
I may fall in love in person though
--
BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
Yes, but its the reverse case that we are talking about.
If a design is really not your thing, seeing in the store rarely changes anything, for some.
My point was in response to MM, who as usual says how can you have strong opinions without seeing it.
Thats clearly rubbish.
t
Duels: Sandyb: No one is suggesting that. But if you don't like something, going to see in most cases won't change your mind, especially when you get such a good preview from videos / AR apps. Also, are those who say immediately upon launch "I'm going to get one" wrong? Because they won't have seen the product in real life. I dont see the same criticism levelled at them. Cant have it both ways. Actually Henrik was suggesting that. In my experience of buying B&O over 30/40 years, seeing something in store in the flesh has often made me like it more than I expected based on pictures. For example I fell in love with and bought BL18s when I saw them in store, but hadn’t been that impressed with pictures. But as far as i can recall I’ve never seen a product in the flesh and thought it isn’t as good as the pictures. As for those saying “I’m going to get one” on launch, then those folks would of course be taking a chance. (But a chance based on knowledge of B&Os competencies so not a total risk. ) And I will probably do it with the Emerge. Criticise if you like but as I say I’ve ever seen a B&O product that I liked in pictures but not in real life.
Sandyb: No one is suggesting that. But if you don't like something, going to see in most cases won't change your mind, especially when you get such a good preview from videos / AR apps. Also, are those who say immediately upon launch "I'm going to get one" wrong? Because they won't have seen the product in real life. I dont see the same criticism levelled at them. Cant have it both ways.
Actually Henrik was suggesting that.
In my experience of buying B&O over 30/40 years, seeing something in store in the flesh has often made me like it more than I expected based on pictures. For example I fell in love with and bought BL18s when I saw them in store, but hadn’t been that impressed with pictures. But as far as i can recall I’ve never seen a product in the flesh and thought it isn’t as good as the pictures.
As for those saying “I’m going to get one” on launch, then those folks would of course be taking a chance. (But a chance based on knowledge of B&Os competencies so not a total risk. ) And I will probably do it with the Emerge. Criticise if you like but as I say I’ve ever seen a B&O product that I liked in pictures but not in real life.
Still I am looking forward to what people think, once they have experienced, seen, heard the BL28 properly setup in real life.
Duels:In my experience of buying B&O over 30/40 years, seeing something in store in the flesh has often made me like it more than I expected based on pictures. For example I fell in love with and bought BL18s when I saw them in store, but hadn’t been that impressed with pictures. But as far as i can recall I’ve never seen a product in the flesh and thought it isn’t as good as the pictures. As for those saying “I’m going to get one” on launch, then those folks would of course be taking a chance. (But a chance based on knowledge of B&Os competencies so not a total risk. ) And I will probably do it with the Emerge. Criticise if you like but as I say I’ve ever seen a B&O product that I liked in pictures but not in real life.
I agree! ...to a certain extent
I think the only time that I've changed my mind to not liking the product so much after seeing the product in the flesh was when I saw the Horizon, but then it was about the finish more than the design itself – I think the design is great, but the build quality was not what i expected (sharp corners etc) så I was disappointed. But then again, i still really like its design.
The opposite (that you mention) sometimes happens to me as well, but it's more a case of going from a, let's say, 7/10 score to a 8/10 rather than me totally changing my mind. There are cases when I look at a photo and think "quite nice, but I'm not sure" and then change to "ah, it actually is quite nice" after seeing it in the flesh.
However, to me (and this is only my personal opinion) the BL28 is one of those cases where I don't like the design idea itself, and I also dislike how 'cluttered' it is (I think there is too much going on). In other words, seeing it in the flesh can make me feel a bit better about it but it would still only be a minor improvement to what I regard a flawed design. The lipstick on the pig might look better IRL, but the pig is still a pig
To me, adding some B&O design cues such as wooden lamellas etc does not automatically make it a B&O design – to me there's is more to the B&O design DNA than just such details, simplicity is IMHO a much bigger ingredient in the B&O DNA and I find the basic design a bit clumsy and unbalanced for a B&O product, and on top of that it is sprinklered with unnecessary details. So yes, it was clear to me that I'm not going to like this design IRL
Millemissen: Still I am looking forward to what people think, once they have experienced, seen, heard the BL28 properly setup in real life. MM
...and when it comes to sound, I agree. Ok, as someone else also mentioned I'm also a bit sceptical regarding the "small woofers in small volumes and lots of DSP compensation" principle, but I know that I might find the BL28 to be a great speaker. I'll have to listen to it to know, and I hope I'll like it.
I have lots of experience in judging a design by photos, but I'm not able to judge sound performance from photos and datasheet – I need to listen to it.
henrik:To me, adding some B&O design cues such as wooden lamellas etc does not automatically make it a B&O design – to me there's is more to the B&O design DNA than just such details, simplicity is IMHO a much bigger ingredient in the B&O DNA and I find the basic design a bit clumsy and unbalanced for a B&O product, and on top of that it is sprinklered with unnecessary details. So yes, it was clear to me that I'm not going to like this design IRL
Not only I totally agree with this and all you said before but you also put in quiet, simple, little words what I'm not able to say.Yes, adding wood and aluminium doesn't make a design B&O. It makes it B&Oish but no more. Many people in this thread said it looks like a fake or a B&O inspired Samsung product, or even "Not" a speaker, etc… and honestly I found their were all spot on. Proportions, balance, volumes, shapes dont need to be seen in reel to have an opinion on the design. You dont need to be a designer to understand why this design is so much different from BL18, BL8000 or even that it dont share any "soul" with totally different designs like BL90 or 50 which are also massive but more balanced. At east they both have something.
Moreover if we should all have to to wait to see things IRL to have an opinion, that forum would not be that alive. People who keep repeating that he will wait to see it to have an opinion is just spilling CO2 server emissions in useless posts. A forum is made to talk.
Of course things will be better in real that in (some) pictures. It always happen: if anybody visit other enthusiast forum it's true for watches, cars, speakers, computers or phones. First the design is not "for me" then "I get in the shop and finally it's not that bad".But I also believe part of this common mechanism is because when you're in the shop, you're also close to the thing and also close to buy it and because you want it, your mind finally agree to find it nice. And once the thing is in your living room, wrist or garage you start to look at it differently at love it more and more.
Anyway its easy to open the the b&o speaker webpage and see what is the ugly duckling.
Henrik, I'm with you!
Exactly - and the initial impressions people were posting were largely about the design and form factor.
Quite why those were deemed irrational will forever escape me.
But of course, no one knows how they sounded - and I'm sure here they will sound some kind of excellent.
And being the first Beolabs in a while, its interesting to see what type of sound signature they have gone for
But I'm struggling to believe they won't sound very good indeed, and if they leave a 50's type of impression for what looks like 40% of the price of the 50s, then they could be a very good addition to the speaker range.
henrik: Millemissen: Still I am looking forward to what people think, once they have experienced, seen, heard the BL28 properly setup in real life. MM ...and when it comes to sound, I agree. Ok, as someone else also mentioned I'm also a bit sceptical regarding the "small woofers in small volumes and lots of DSP compensation" principle, but I know that I might find the BL28 to be a great speaker. I'll have to listen to it to know, and I hope I'll like it. I have lots of experience in judging a design by photos, but I'm not able to judge sound performance from photos and datasheet – I need to listen to it.
Duels: moxxey: I've made mostly correct decisions from seeing the style, design and presentation of a B&O product before I've seen it in person. I've never changed my mind seeing something online then in person. The BL28 looks awful. like something from 1997. Shiny chrome? Really? But that's what old-skool B&O users like. Old fashion design. So it works. And I respect that. Ironically I liked the design of the Edge (still do), own an Edge, but wouldn't recommend an Edge. Sounds....weird. I own the Balance, not sure I'd recommend that either. I own a BeoSound 1, I probably would recommend this. I own a Level, would recommend that purely for portability. I own two (don't ask!) BeoSound 2's, 100% recommend these. Awesome. Look great, sound amazing. So just the BS2 then?
moxxey: I've made mostly correct decisions from seeing the style, design and presentation of a B&O product before I've seen it in person. I've never changed my mind seeing something online then in person. The BL28 looks awful. like something from 1997. Shiny chrome? Really? But that's what old-skool B&O users like. Old fashion design. So it works. And I respect that. Ironically I liked the design of the Edge (still do), own an Edge, but wouldn't recommend an Edge. Sounds....weird. I own the Balance, not sure I'd recommend that either. I own a BeoSound 1, I probably would recommend this. I own a Level, would recommend that purely for portability. I own two (don't ask!) BeoSound 2's, 100% recommend these. Awesome. Look great, sound amazing.
I've made mostly correct decisions from seeing the style, design and presentation of a B&O product before I've seen it in person. I've never changed my mind seeing something online then in person.
The BL28 looks awful. like something from 1997. Shiny chrome? Really? But that's what old-skool B&O users like. Old fashion design. So it works. And I respect that.
Ironically I liked the design of the Edge (still do), own an Edge, but wouldn't recommend an Edge. Sounds....weird. I own the Balance, not sure I'd recommend that either. I own a BeoSound 1, I probably would recommend this. I own a Level, would recommend that purely for portability. I own two (don't ask!) BeoSound 2's, 100% recommend these. Awesome. Look great, sound amazing.
So just the BS2 then?
Just the BS2 what, Duels? Elaborate.
I'm trying to explain the balance between design, the 'look' and performance - it's a tricky balance. It's not just about how something may look, it's about how it performs, too. For me, the Edge looks fantastic, but actually sounds a bit odd. So looks aren't everything.
Duels - when commenting, don't type a few sharp words. You wind a lot of people up for zero purpose and your contribution is minimal. I don't even understand 90% of your replies, frankly.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
First
2nd.
3rd
Third post/picture (more interresting) went in moderation
Looks ever more promising. No shiny chrome but nice aluminium. The AR version was somewhat underwhelming, but now I’m looking forward to see it irl!
BV Harmony 65 / Eclipse 55 / BL 50 / 19 / 18 / BS 2 all brass
BV Horizon 48 / V1 40 / BL 17 / Beoplay S3 all black
V1 / BL 3 / BS Essence MKII / Beoplay A3 all white
BS Moment / BS 3000 / BS 3200 / BL 400 all silver
Headphones / bluetooth speakers / BLC NL-ML / BLGateway
I know…B&O virus has grown on me !
I hope we will be able to buy non-GVA versions as I don’t want a microphone in my speakers...
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Controls and display a bit wasted if your less than 5ft tall!
Maybe if you're short you mount them horizontal on the wall rather than vertical!
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher:Controls and display a bit wasted if your less than 5ft tall! Maybe if you're short you mount them horizontal on the wall rather than vertical! Ban boring signatures!
Mikipidia: Puncher: Controls and display a bit wasted if your less than 5ft tall! Maybe if you're short you mount them horizontal on the wall rather than vertical! Ban boring signatures! Surely the fix is to mount them higher but upside down in this scenario?
Puncher: Controls and display a bit wasted if your less than 5ft tall! Maybe if you're short you mount them horizontal on the wall rather than vertical! Ban boring signatures!
Surely the fix is to mount them higher but upside down in this scenario?
Excellent idea!
Some comments if I may?
Rumour is this is a $15k loudspeaker? I hope not. If so, I see this as a joke. My reasons:-
1. Beolab 90 and 50 (and somewhat BL5) are/were critically acclaimed. Big money but appealed to a broader clientele who would never have purchased B&O just for being “form over function” mantra.
2. The BL28 goes back to the good-old bad days in my opinion. It appeals for die-hard B&O fans who are probably too busy buying-up good used gear for a fraction of its original value right now.
3. The BL28 actually looks like a Beosound with the user interface? i.e built-in music sources.
4. The BL28 has Bluetooth. I suspect this is for streaming music directly rather than for control?
5. If for streaming music, again, for a $15k loudspeaker, Bluetooth is always lossless and therefore has a credibility issue.
6. Am I reading the comments correctly that the BL28 has a wooden-slat “curtain”? that “parts” when activated? if so, it will get slated by the Press. There’s no-way all that electrics and mechanics don’t impact on sound quality etc. Again, credibility as a $15k loudspeaker? How much is spent on delivering sound vs all the bells and whistles that probably detract from that sound? It pushes itself away from the competition?
Aside from the my questionable comments regarding the Marketability, Im sure its got all the electronic gubbin’s to have good tonal balance and have a classic B&O sound signature etc... I just think it will seriously lack all credibility from anyone apart from the well-healed nut-case BeoFanBoy’s who cant stretch to a pair of BL25s or done want the real-estate occupied by them.
For the aesthetic, not my taste to be honest. I question the effectiveness of wooden slats as a source of extraneous acoustic noises? Further, If I was penning these things, I would extend the slats at least down to the circumference of the sphere.
There are some very good active loudspeakers out there like the Kii Audio’s Kii_Three (similar price with DSP and room correction) and Dutch&Dutch 8c’s (1/3th of the price).
As Ive posted before….I think a $4-5K replacement for the BL3 would be a good move. A $15k speaker…I think B&O have gone back to smoking pickled Rollmop weed in the current climate.
We will see. Tell me I’m me wrong?
Mr 10Percent: There are some very good active loudspeakers out there like the Kii Audio’s Kii_Three (similar price with DSP and room correction) and Dutch&Dutch 8c’s (1/3th of the price).
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
I had the opportunity today to see and hear the BL28’s.
Rather impressed by the sound and also the looks and build quality.
Of course I need more listening time to say more about the sound quality, but it is a familiar sound....when you are used to the newer speakers from B&O.
As for the looks (in real life!) - it is new, different, however definitely what I do expect from B&O (I expect them to try out new things, that draws on the heritage - but adds to it).
They were set up with a BV Harmony connected there via PL - and are controlled, configured like any of the new speakers there.
They can be used seperately - you switch to the speaker set in the Beoremote One and control these like you would control any of the newer sound systems.....means they are (in this case they were) connected wireless like say a BS Balance. You also can control the functions on the top plate (nice for families with childeren, since it is too high for kids).
Having these sound system resources might seem a bit overkill when connected to a Harmone/Eclipse, since that has the same built-in functions.
They can easily be used as a standalone setup....no need for a Core or alike.
And - if you connect them to an Avant/BV11/14..., you basicly upgrade that setup with the sound system functions.
Some people may even prefer that you adress the speakers directly - and not via the Powerlink connection - when streaming.
All in all a concept that is promising for future products. They are slim, which will appeal to those who want a huge sound without something like the bulky BL90/50 in the room respectively without having to add a subwoofer.
I'm seeing them this week too, which I'm looking forward to.
I must say I do really like the direct address nature of them - not requiring a Core I do think is a very good thing.
It gives the company and the product a chance (at least) of appealing to those who want a simple solution, and one that doesn't require a BV or other hardware. I dont believe the company really in the end tries to pitch to the audiophile nerd market, but if it can attract even a small amount of the, lets say, more reasonable design interested audiophiles - well then, that can only be a good thing.
Millemissen: I had the opportunity today to see and hear the BL28’s. Rather impressed by the sound and also the looks and build quality. Of course I need more listening time to say more about the sound quality, but it is a familiar sound....when you are used to the newer speakers from B&O. As for the looks (in real life!) - it is new, different, however definitely what I do expect from B&O (I expect them to try out new things, that draws on the heritage - but adds to it). They were set up with a BV Harmony connected there via PL - and are controlled, configured like any of the new speakers there. They can be used seperately - you switch to the speaker set in the Beoremote One and control these like you would control any of the newer sound systems.....means they are (in this case they were) connected wireless like say a BS Balance. You also can control the functions on the top plate (nice for families with childeren, since it is too high for kids). Having these sound system resources might seem a bit overkill when connected to a Harmone/Eclipse, since that has the same built-in functions. They can easily be used as a standalone setup....no need for a Core or alike. And - if you connect them to an Avant/BV11/14..., you basicly upgrade that setup with the sound system functions. Some people may even prefer that you adress the speakers directly - and not via the Powerlink connection - when streaming. All in all a concept that is promising for future products. They are slim, which will appeal to those who want a huge sound without something like the bulky BL90/50 in the room respectively without having to add a subwoofer. MM
Millemissen:They can easily be used as a standalone setup....no need for a Core or alike.
BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1
mbolo01: Millemissen: They can easily be used as a standalone setup....no need for a Core or alike. Do they support Beolink, Deezer and DLNA like the Core does?
Millemissen: They can easily be used as a standalone setup....no need for a Core or alike.
Do they support Beolink, Deezer and DLNA like the Core does?
The BL28 (as a music system) is built on the same platform as the new music systems ( e.g. Balance, Emerge).
So no, there is no NL Beolink as of now. But it is no secret that this functionallity will be part of an update later this year.
There is support for DLNA - Deezer is not a built-in service anymore.
For the full specs, see what was published here earlier on or - more important - wait untill the official launch. I guess we will learn more by then.
Millemissen:But it is no secret that this functionallity will be part of an update later this year.
I think I read that for the Balance .... ages ago now.
From what we can see in BL 28 connectivity list (in the B&O Experience app), DLNA is not listed like it is not listed for products built on the same platform. So if I was going for the BL 28 without changing my current music sources, nor my habits (NL) I would definitively need a Core.
Side question: I wonder what should be the size of a human to properly operate the BL 28 commands?
mbolo01: Millemissen:But it is no secret that this functionallity will be part of an update later this year. I think I read that for the Balance .... ages ago now. From what we can see in BL 28 connectivity list (in the B&O Experience app), DLNA is not listed like it is not listed for products built on the same platform. So if I was going for the BL 28 without changing my current music sources, nor my habits (NL) I would definitively need a Core. Side question: I wonder what should be the size of a human to properly operate the BL 28 commands?
I guess you are right on the DLNA support....my fault.
However, that might change - technologywise it should be possible.......if not it sure is a drawback with your listening habits.
NL coming.....I would not agree, that you read that ‘ages ago’. ‘ages ago’ they did not mention anything about NL.
Now they officially have announced it for Q3 - and I see no reason not to believe that.
I could easily reach the top of the 28 for controlling - and where else should they have put control elements, if they have to be there?
I guess anyone with younger kids will be happy that they are somewhat out of reach.
Personally I would connect these to my BV (if I had them).
The integration of music functions is - again to me - secondary.
However, this opens up possibilities for other users with other habits/wishes.....so I have no problem with them being there.
In general I expect that the integration of the new Mozart platform will enable new functions, that we haven’t seen before.
Millemissen:I had the opportunity today to see and hear the BL28’s. Rather impressed by the sound and also the looks and build quality. Of course I need more listening time to say more about the sound quality, but it is a familiar sound....when you are used to the newer speakers from B&O. As for the looks (in real life!) - it is new, different, however definitely what I do expect from B&O (I expect them to try out new things, that draws on the heritage - but adds to it). They were set up with a BV Harmony connected there via PL - and are controlled, configured like any of the new speakers there. They can be used seperately - you switch to the speaker set in the Beoremote One and control these like you would control any of the newer sound systems.....means they are (in this case they were) connected wireless like say a BS Balance. You also can control the functions on the top plate (nice for families with childeren, since it is too high for kids). Having these sound system resources might seem a bit overkill when connected to a Harmone/Eclipse, since that has the same built-in functions. They can easily be used as a standalone setup....no need for a Core or alike. And - if you connect them to an Avant/BV11/14..., you basicly upgrade that setup with the sound system functions. Some people may even prefer that you adress the speakers directly - and not via the Powerlink connection - when streaming. All in all a concept that is promising for future products. They are slim, which will appeal to those who want a huge sound without something like the bulky BL90/50 in the room respectively without having to add a subwoofer. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5